Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2014

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 05:56

Yes. We can see how 'reporters without notebooks' (like doctors without borders) can get things wrong. It seems NORRIS has the details down except the repeated quote from the CHIEF about seeing 'all green all the way' when it should be all the way with LBJ/orange. :mrgreen: Which reminds me - the orange people have their F-35s up.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 07:07

blindpilot wrote:And for film at 11 - ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFGzgvgltMw

BP


So I'm watching the above video and the first one at the instant after launch does the pilots helmet hit the canopy? He certainly bounces a lot! I'm watching it on an iPad mini so could be wrong...
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 07:51

Certainly he bounces and perhaps that can be fixed - don't know. However I'll wager this pilot was strapped in tight if he has any sense and his helmet is not likely to have hit the canopy. Remember we look from a slant view angle. In any event the helmet is there for good reason and if helmet did contact canopy then that protection is there - but I doubt it very much.

Depending on what one might be told about first catapult shot may influence what a pilot does but any jet pilot will be well strapped in - so much so THAT IT HURTS. I had permanent bruises on my collarbone - particularly from the poor seat position when strapped in to the MACCHI MB326H (a different story). One clenches what one wishes to clench before the first catapult shot (which will not be that Cee pilot experience - remember also many catapults have been conducted ashore) and he will also have many other aircraft catapults under his belt if we don't know better. What catches the novice often is the punch in the chest from the horizontal G force. Some say they scream all the way down as a way to stop the effect of the punch. An A4G catapult was too short to do much other than bear it (5-6G down 100-110 feet in around 1 second and a bit).

[ADDITION] Certainly for example in an A4G (a very small cockpit - with a very long nose oleo underneath) it was possible to sit way up high so that your helmet grazed the top of the canopy (that was my preferred position all the time with one exception never repeated - and I'm six foot). Some A4G pilots would have their seat at lowest position for catapulting. The claim was that they could read the instruments better especially for night catapulting and using the primary handle (over head/helmet). Yeah right. Have the seat up high for the best view and use the secondary handle (the quickest). My night cat shot with the seat at lowest was the biggest deliberate mistake I ever made - completely bewildered because I was not used to that seat/view position off the catapult. Could have trialled it in the daytime but - what did I know. :doh: Never again. Again strap in until it hurts - if it don't hurt - you ain't strapped in.

Video clip is One-Eighth Slow Motion

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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 08:27

This picture would be online I'm sure however just received this small version via e-mail which shows how low this pilot is seated. Perhaps he learnt this from the first chap? Dunno. See my preferred possie above. Other e-mail photo titles say that CMDR Sewell in CF-05 is the first catapult F-35C pilot - but again this will be confirmed at some point I guess.
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F-35C Lighting II about to launch from USS Nimitz Nov_ 4, 2014.JPG
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 09:02

That extreme bounce response at the start of the cat stroke could be caused by nose gear shock strut extension damping being too low or strut pressure being too high. When the launch bar pulls forward and down and the holdback suddenly releases, the gear strut is fully compressed. So the strut extends rapidly, driving the fuselage upward. With more extension damping or lower strut pressure, the extension would occur slower and reduce the bounce.

However, at the end of the cat stroke, the strut will be fully compressed again by the launch bar load. At that point, low strut extension damping and high strut pressure is desired so fast strut extension will rotate the airplane for takeoff. Strut extension damping and strut pressure is therefore a compromise between the two goals - bounce control and takeoff rotation.

Of course, rotation is also provided by horizontal tail and rudder deflection. From the cat shot video, you can see the deflections are fixed during the shot. It might be possible to get the same rotation with more surface deflection and slower gear strut extension (more strut extension damping or lower strut pressure).

Strut extension damping adjustment may require dis-assembly of the gear to change the damping orifice, but pressure can be adjusted by adding or bleeding air from the strut. It will be interesting to see more cat videos as the tests progress and see if the bounce is better controlled.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 10:00

Thanks 'johnwill'.

Some good photos online top of page at moment with catapults featured. Meanwhile I like the base turn and downwind photos below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedmartin/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 534910527/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 534222259/
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CF-05baseNIMITZ.png
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 10:14

Not only... but also... Aaron Mehta on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019? (I thought it was 2018).
F-35C Makes First Arrested Landing on Aircraft Carrier
03Nov 2014 STAFF REPORT

NOTHING YOU HAVE NOT read/SEEN ALREADY except the video interview.

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... ft-Carrier
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 11:14

This one-eighth speed video shows the first catapult as seen in first slo mo video PLUS the second one (whichever order they are in I have no idea) so here goes:

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popcorn

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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 11:31

Does the Cee pilot fly "hands off" during launch?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 14:15

johnwill wrote:That extreme bounce response at the start of the cat stroke could be caused by nose gear shock strut extension damping being too low or strut pressure being too high. When the launch bar pulls forward and down and the holdback suddenly releases, the gear strut is fully compressed. So the strut extends rapidly, driving the fuselage upward. With more extension damping or lower strut pressure, the extension would occur slower and reduce the bounce.

However, at the end of the cat stroke, the strut will be fully compressed again by the launch bar load. At that point, low strut extension damping and high strut pressure is desired so fast strut extension will rotate the airplane for takeoff. Strut extension damping and strut pressure is therefore a compromise between the two goals - bounce control and takeoff rotation.

Of course, rotation is also provided by horizontal tail and rudder deflection. From the cat shot video, you can see the deflections are fixed during the shot. It might be possible to get the same rotation with more surface deflection and slower gear strut extension (more strut extension damping or lower strut pressure).

Strut extension damping adjustment may require dis-assembly of the gear to change the damping orifice, but pressure can be adjusted by adding or bleeding air from the strut. It will be interesting to see more cat videos as the tests progress and see if the bounce is better controlled.



It appears to have improved over the early launches though. There was one (I think the first one several years ago) where it looked like they were trying to bounce the pilot out of the cockpit it was so violent.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 16:58

[quote="spazsinbad"].....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; 100+ a/c flying, how many (%) are "Cees"? :wink:
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 17:45

neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; 100+ a/c flying, how many (%) are "Cees"? :wink:



The timing on the A's and B's is more critical. This isn't news.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 17:57

'popcorn' asked about the launch. "Does the Cee pilot fly "hands off" during launch?" As we can see from the photos the pilot has right hand on the grab handle on the right side of the canopy bow, while his left hand will be on the throttle - I will wonder about the mechanism to keep it at full power or A/B power (which varies as explained earlier). I'll guess that throttle mechanism is like that on the Super Hornet and I will look up what that might be. See photo on previous page:

Note how close helmet appears to canopy. There is an angle involved from photographer to subject from below to up so that distance will be misleading. I'll guess for this launch the pilot (with head/helmet firmly back on the headrest) is not worried about any bounce. The photo has been taken (see previous page) a millisecond after the hold back has broken - during the launch - the pilot MAY BE at the top of the bounce effect - if any. Invent your own scenario. Peruse more photos and videos when they become available. Look for stories about it all - that will help. Perhaps the whole project will be cancelled because of the bounce during catapulting? I recall reading stories about the DEMON :devil: or similar? which had an horrific catapult/pilot bounce issue. Those pilots were just glad it got off the deck and bounce be damned. :mrgreen:

download/file.php?id=19643&t=1 which is: http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... imitz3.jpg
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F-35CpilotCatapultGrabHandle.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 06 Nov 2014, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 18:08

neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......


The numbers speak for themselves; ... :wink:


"The Numbers Speak For Themselves ..." is a crap phrase, and implies a meaningless assertion.

I am guessing that the Navy "HATES" SSBN Ballistic Subs! I mean the numbers speak for themselves! When is the last time they bought an SSBN sub? !!! All they buy is SSNs!!! The numbers have spoken. The Navy only likes SSNs!

The Navy budget includes the Marines. As you lay out multi year expenditures, some years you buy AV8B+ aircraft for the jarheads, then the next few years you buy F/A18E/Fs for the swabbies, and then bring on the marine F35Bs, and layout the navy F35Cs in out years.

Its kind of hard to buy and bring on line 300 each AV8B+and F/A18E/F, or F35B's and F-35C's all in the same year. It also makes downstream recapitalization a real bitch, if you get into that type of procurement cycle.

Hey the Air Force brass hates Long Range Bombers! How many LR-Bs have they bought? All they buy is the fighters !!!

The numbers speak for themselves!!!!

Everyone understands this except a few Boeing shills who are desperate to sell 12 more F-18 E/F/Gs when they know full well even if they do, it will never be 300 more and the export sales will not happen. That "keep the line open fantasy world" is pure contractor self interest and totally lacking long term foresight. Go design a UAV, or 6 gen platform. Get back in the game.

The numbers speak for themselves? Tell that to Boeing. Gimme a break,

MHO
BP
Last edited by blindpilot on 07 Nov 2014, 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post06 Nov 2014, 18:13

Yes and follow the money eh. :mrgreen: However I feel the good Admirable expressed what the USN requires quite well and that was sufficient explanation for me. The USN require Block 3F F-35Cs - in number - I think he said. I should get the quote..... go here on page three of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281132&hilit=Ford#p281132
""...Admirable Moran But let me close by circling back to the future of the air wing for the next 20 years and the value we see in the F-35C.

We are buying all production aircraft currently.

We see the coming of the Ford and the coming of the F-35 as highly synergistic for the fleet and its operation as a sea base.

And with the F-35C must come Block 3F capability, which has a fully enabled set to operate the weapons we use at sea, multi-ship integration and a host of other very important capabilities important to how we expect to operate in the future.

We are not going to accelerate the number of production airplanes until we get to Block 3F which will give us the capability that we need to operate off the carrier.

Once we marry up F-35C with key capability investments in the Super Hornet, E-2D, [EA-18G] Growlers, and a mix of unmanned capabilities, we will continue to have an air wing that can dominate in any environment...."
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