Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2014

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post04 Nov 2014, 23:20

Thanks 'cantaz' I like the magic HOWL for touch and goes again. During the last approach we can see the ORANGE optimum angle of attack approach light steady all the way.

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

quicksilver

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3007
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 01:30

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 00:28

spazsinbad wrote:The PACIFIC can have long rolling swell that will move any large ship a little as seen in the No.2 video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BOt0a_tGRg ) however the conditions are benign as they should be for any initial testing.

One NEVER wants to correct a CHIEF and I will say it is likely he has been 'verballed'. Why? Because GREEN in the approach light indicates SLOW. Red indicates FAST whilst ORANGE is Optimum Angle of Attack. From my recollection I can see only steady ORANGE during the No.2 video. Whilst it blinks when the HOOK is UP which indicates same to those interested. During FCLP the 'hook bypass (approach light) switch' will be actuated by ground personnel before flight so that 'hook up' FCLP approaches can be made ashore without the light blinking. I hope that makes sense. Smoke 'em if youse got 'em. :mrgreen:

Now that I have rewatched the video I see the orange (Opt AoA) steady on first approach (with nibbling to the right which is necessary as explained earlier). The second approach has the green showing for a millisecond or two but so what - otherwise orange.

THE HOWL during the touch and goes must be MAGIC to hear. :devil:

Bye the Bye or BTW it would seem IF the Break My Fence story about no catapulting is correct then the two aircraft arrested once each to stay onboard. That means the aircraft seen in the No.2 video did touch and goes and wave off(s) before arresting. Coolio.


You can also hear it during the CAT video at about the 26-28 sec mark during the end run up to mil.
Offline

hb_pencil

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 878
  • Joined: 18 Aug 2011, 21:50

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 00:39

sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


I thought Doug had some modicum of balance and judgement, just bad information inputted in. However that comment is just disgraceful.
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6353
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 01:26

hb_pencil wrote:
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


I thought Doug had some modicum of balance and judgement, just bad information inputted in. However that comment is just disgraceful.


indeed. The butthurt has been palatable.
Choose Crews
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 01:47

The "Brick" will go down in Navy lore as the guy who made history... now who was the guy in the second Lightning?
Life isn't fair :D

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... -landings/
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 849
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 02:25

cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 849
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 02:34

" Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention."

Looks like this c*nt needs to be catapulted off a carrier into a sea of sh*t! Just when you think that these mouthbreathers can't sink any lower.
Last edited by mk82 on 05 Nov 2014, 03:10, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

count_to_10

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3300
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 15:38

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 02:53

mk82 wrote:
cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!

Though that does bring up the question of what load they are carrying.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 03:11

I'm in thunderstorm city this afternoon so I'll have to go offline and I'll be bock however here is a link on the old "Lakehurst" thread that explains the way Supers and LIGHTENings (oops) are Launched (not lunched): Gotta go now and will add or reformat later.... GO HERE FOR MOST OF IT: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=infancy#p200694
JBD Testing A Key Step For Joint Strike Fighter
18 Jul 2011 Amy Butler | Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J.; Aviation Week & Space Technology p. 84

"...Even without the more extensive data provided by today’s sensor array, Super Hornet engineers gained valuable experience during JBD trials that led to a change in how the aircraft is launched. During testing, hot air was inadvertently recirculated into the air intake of the Super Hornet, prompting a “pop stall,” or hiccup in the airflow for the propulsion system. The result was a dangerous fireball coughing from the back of the Super Hornet, says Briggs.

The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs.

Having completed the first phase of JBD trials with a single F-35C, engineers are eager to test a more realistic scenario with one aircraft in front of the deflector and one behind.

Because of this lesson, the limited afterburner setting was designed into the F-35 in its infancy...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/lakehurst/nl ... esting.pdf (125Kb)
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Nov 2014, 04:05, edited 2 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 849
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 03:13

count_to_10 wrote:
mk82 wrote:
cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!

Though that does bring up the question of what load they are carrying.


I suspect empty (internal) pylons and at least < 50% internal fuel.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 04:00

Puhleez, the aircraft are being tested so they will have all kinds of loadouts - perhaps not today or even next week or even in DT I or DT II or DT III. Who knows. Who knows what is inside if it is not specified in a report. IF we catch a glimpse of the WEIGHT BOARD in a photo or video we may be able to guess. Best to stick with what is known.

The aircraft has a maximum carrier landing weight which has been explained a few times now on this forum. When the first pilots are becoming day carrier qualified - from the carrier - they may be able to initially launch at just above the maximum CLW so that by the time they are catapulted and downwind turning base they will be at max. weight. IF they are too heavy in this situation then they may have dumped fuel already so as to be at that weight. Then they can arrest/launch arrest/launch and because they are test pilots once qualified in daytime they will carry out odd approaches with odd WOD Wind Over the Deck so that the initial Launch Bulletin for the aircraft can be determined.

Later that bulletin will be expanded with asymmetric stores/loadouts - you name it they will do it. These things have been hinted at in the NavAir story if I remember correctly (or at least in some stories so far).

Meanwhile the variable afterburner story tells a story. And because this is testing the parameters for A/B or MIL power will be tested under all kinds of launch conditions also. I would not worry about what they are carrying - yet.
_____________________

Thunderstorms are hammering my local area today so I'll apologise in advance if this extra post stops abruptly. The RCLW was the acronym to search the forum for (or Lakehurst thread at least) for the KPP description of what that is and how it applies to the F-35C. Small PDF (author Bowman) has the story here:
Scorecard
Apr 2008 LCDR Bowman USN

“...The Navy has added approach speed as a service specific key performance parameter. The threshold for approach speed is 145 knots with 15 knots of wind over the deck. This must be possible at Required Carrier Landing Weight (RCLW). The RCLW is the sum of the aircraft operating weight, the minimum required bringback, and enough fuel for two instrument approaches & a 100nm BINGO profile to arrive at a divert airfield with 1000 pounds of fuel. The minimum required bringback is two 2000 pound air-to-ground weapons & two AIM-120s. The Navy further requires that the CV JSF be capable of carrier recovery with internal & external stores; the external stations must have 1000 pound capability on the outboard stations & maximum station carriage weight on the inboard.”

Source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-14791.html (PDF (0.25Mb)

The effect approx. is this:
"The [F-35C] max trap weight will be around 46k lbs, with an empty weight of about 35k lbs. It will fly an on-speed AOA of 12.3° at 135-140 KCAS [Optimum AofA or Donut]. [which at max. arrest weight at moment is more likely 145KCAS]
LT. Dan "Butters" Radocaj VX-23 Ship Suitability

Source: http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesM ... er2010.pdf (about 1 Mb if you can find it)
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Nov 2014, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7719
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 04:41

Yup, not the time to get too technical.. let‘s just savor the bitchslap moment to all the negativists. :D
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 07:43

Always we see how 'negative' the USN is supposed to be about the F-35C but never any quotes. And yet but also I see plenty of public quotes about how interested the USN bigwigs are in it all. So here goes... AND why is this quote here - well the TITLE goshdarnit and...? Well because even numnuts like BreakYourFaceDaFence need reminding to not just spread rumours but to back them up with some quotes. Hokay?
F-35C Landing on the Nimitz: Getting Ready for the USS Ford
04 Nov 2014 SLDinfo

"...Admirable Moran But let me close by circling back to the future of the air wing for the next 20 years and the value we see in the F-35C.

We are buying all production aircraft currently.

We see the coming of the Ford and the coming of the F-35 as highly synergistic for the fleet and its operation as a sea base.

And with the F-35C must come Block 3F capability, which has a fully enabled set to operate the weapons we use at sea, multi-ship integration and a host of other very important capabilities important to how we expect to operate in the future.

We are not going to accelerate the number of production airplanes until we get to Block 3F which will give us the capability that we need to operate off the carrier.

Once we marry up F-35C with key capability investments in the Super Hornet, E-2D, [EA-18G] Growlers, and a mix of unmanned capabilities, we will continue to have an air wing that can dominate in any environment...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/f-35c-landing-on ... -uss-ford/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 09:14

This chap seems to have a clue...
Navy Makes History with First F-35C Carrier Landing
04 Nov 2014 Kris Osborn

"..."In order to withstand the forces experienced during an arrested landing, the keel of an F-35C is strengthened and the landing gear is of a heavier-duty build than the A and B models," an official with the F-35 Integrated Test Force said.

The wings of the F-35C are also built with what's called "aileron control surfaces" designed to provide control power to roll the aircraft at slow approaching speeds, Wilson told Military.com earlier this year.

At sea, pilots must account for their speed as well as the speed of the wind, the weather, or visibility conditions as well as the speed of the boat, Wilson explained.

"The landing area is constantly changing. This is a challenge to structure of the aircraft because there is no way of knowing for certain how hard we are going to hit the deck or at what angle they are going to be at," he added.

On an aircraft carrier, the ship has arresting wires or metal cables attached to hydraulic engines used to slow the aircraft down to a complete stop within the landing area.

"On an aircraft carrier, the landing area is off about 10-degrees. The boat's motion itself is moving away from you — so you can't just aim at the boat," Wilson said.

The cable is four to six inches above the deck of the carrier and hydraulic fluid controls the pace of deceleration for the aircraft, Wilson said. A hook lowers from the back end of the F-35C aircraft, designed to catch the cable and slow down the plane.

"In order to maintain our stealth configuration, we had to put the hook internal to the airframe. On all the legacy systems, the tail hook sits up underneath the engine externally. We have three doors that open up to allow the tail hook to fall down," Wilson said.

The aircraft also needs to be able to withstand what's called a "free flight," a situation where the pilot receives a late wave off to keep flying after the hook on the airplane has already connected with the wire, he explained.

"We need to be sure that the engine and the aircraft itself can handle the stress of essentially being ripped out of the air by the interaction between the cable and the hook," Wilson added.

Describing landing as a controlled crash into the aircraft carrier, Wilson explained that pilots look at a light on the ship called the Fresnel Lens in order to orient their approach...."

Source: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... nding.html
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24256
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post05 Nov 2014, 09:53

And this one with some good details and ???? (you'll see...)...
Navy's newest aircraft lands perfectly on its oldest aircraft carrier
03 Nov 2014 Dan Parsons

"Just after noon on 3 November, a Lockheed Martin F-35C Lightning II shot into view over the stern of the USS Nimitz for a low pass, the first of three [Two T&Gs and a Wave OFF?] before the pilot made a picture perfect landing on the third arresting wire of the aircraft carrier.

The F-35C flight test aircraft, CF-3, hooked the third arresting wire at 12:58, about 40nm (74km) southwest of San Diego. An hour later, CF-5 performed a fly-by, then a touch-and-go and finally an arrested landing.... [Whatever]

...The aircraft made an hour-long flight from Yuma, Arizona, where they underwent preliminary maintenance in preparation for their two-week deployment aboard the Nimitz. Plans were to both land and then launch at least one jet on 3 November by way of the ship’s steam-powered catapult system, but the launches were scrapped because of telemetry issues.

“It’s nothing that we can’t recover from for tomorrow,” Buss said....

...What most impressed Buss was the stability of the F-35 on approach. Both CF-3 and CF-5, as the test jest are designated, made ideal arrested landings on the third deck wire.

“The most remarkable thing was how steady and stable it was on approach. I didn’t see a lot of control surface movement,” he says. “Both aircraft landed exactly where we wanted them to.”

The F-35C is augmented with a new “delta” control law to improve stability on a fixed glideslope to a carrier deck, a first for a manned aircraft landing on a carrier.

The ship and both F-35Cs will stay at sea for the next two weeks, during which time the envelope for flight operations will continually be opened. Changes will be made in the attitudes of the landings as well as direction and speed, Buss said. The test pilots will next try cross-wind landings, landings with the deck at variable pitch angles. Night landings are scheduled for 13-15 November.

Developmental testing phase two is scheduled to begin in 10 months, aboard an undesignated carrier. Final testing phase three is scheduled for 2016..."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ft-405629/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 milestones

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests