Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2014

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 03:21
by spazsinbad
OK. By PopRequest of One and then ME here is a new thread about the first DL of the F-35C CF-03 apparently at 1058 (maybe that time will confirmed one day) 03 Nov 2014 but go here for the Preliminaries: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 03:25
by spazsinbad
I'll repost video links until people catch up here if that is OK? Thanks to 'bring_it_on' for this video link:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 03:34
by spazsinbad
Yes the trull lull lull lull lahs want to spit at no engine changes onboard so far, [not forgetting the great sage SullageMon who wants some LO something or other] however there was mention of maintenance actions on CVN this DT with of course some metal bending with the F-35Bs aboard WASP DT I & II however sometimes they did go ashore to PAX for some ReLax. Atives. But anyway there were planning moves with an ersatz OUIJA board thingamajig earlier as noted on the "Lakehurst" thread methinks but I'll repeat it here and find it there if that is OK?

DA Link (not at Lakehurst but engyne - where else): viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25484&p=270958&hilit=Holcomb#p270958
"...During the December conference, three exercises were performed to depict the sequential removal, replacement and module change of an F-35B engine aboard two different classes of L-Class ships. According to Bill Mehl, Aviation/Ship Integration engineer at Lakehurst, “the exercise went extremely well and we were very happy with the data gathered. Working in this controlled environment certainly saves a lot of time, effort and money before actual shipboard operations ever take place.”..."

“(Left) CDR Mark Dover (JSF JPO) & (Right) MGySgtMichael Holcomb (AIR 6.7.1.5) review L-Class ship footprint modeling at the Lakehurst Carrier Analysis Lab.”

http://www.navair.navy.mil/img/uploads/ ... hoto_1.jpg

Image

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 03:47
by spazsinbad
BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 66-050.JPG (1.2Mb)
"141103-N-AZ866-050 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 3, 2014) An F-35C Lightening [unbelievable!] II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter conducts it's first arrested landing aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68). Nimitz is underway conducting routine training exercises. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Kelly M. Agee/Released)"

Source: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 66-050.JPG
Look up what 'lightening' means - in every other sense but what it is not here - the name of the aircraft.

And anotherie: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 66-052.JPG
CF-05 No.3 wire:
BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 66-052.JPG

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 03:54
by SpudmanWP
In case anyone missed it, both F-35s (CF-03 and CF-05) made landings today. Look carefully at the 2nd video and you will see both Grey-tail and Red-tail F-35s.

--DAMN-----
You posted the pic just as I was typing this :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 04:09
by spazsinbad
Yep a busy day eh. BEST Video View so far: We can see the pilot 'nibbling' to the right several times to stay on centreline - which is always moving from left to right during the approach - even though he will be on the angle deck centreline most of the time. This 'nibbling' is most noticeable during the first approach - others have different circumstances I guess - whilst there are HOOK UP touch and goes with a last WAVE OFF (for whatever reason - test or foul deck etc.). PLUS... we can see the deck moving - probably the usual amount for conditions I guess.


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 04:12
by mk82
This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 07:34
by spazsinbad
F-35C To Navy: Note My Lovely USS Nimitz Landings
04 Nov 2014 Colin Clark

"...The F-35C’s wings didn’t wobble at all on final approach as test pilot Cdr. Tony “Brick” Wilson guided her in. And on its first try the plane’s tail hook grabbed the third arresting wire — the catch most favored by Navy pilots — at 12:19 pm. When an F-18 Hornet landed minutes later, the plane’s wings twitched slightly up and down on its approach and the pilot snagged the fourth wire, second to the bottom in the Navy hierarchy of carrier landing awards.

Then the second F-35C test plane came in just as steady and firm as the first. It also snagged the third wire...

...The Air Boss, who might be more receptive to the Joint Strike Fighter than some of his bosses, told reporters that today’s landings will be a “springboard to our future.”

There was one glitch to today’s testing. The F-35C’s first catapult launches were postponed because of glitches with some of the test sensors, which were not relaying data to testers. The Nimitz tests are scheduled to continue for two weeks. It will include night landings around the last three days of testing, Buss told me on the flight deck. Until the night landings, the Nimitz crew and the F-35C pilots will “gradually expand the flight envelope,” putting the plane through its paces by forcing it to land into the wind, against the wind and to take off using all of the ship’s four catapults, he said. A Navy officer familiar with the program told reporters it will probably take four months to go through the enormous data that flows from these tests.

This batch of testing is called DT-1. It will be followed by DT-2 at the end of next summer and DT-3 in the spring of 2016."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... -landings/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 07:41
by Corsair1963
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 08:47
by mk82
Corsair1963 wrote:
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:


You got that right!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 13:46
by cantaz
There was one glitch to today’s testing. The F-35C’s first catapult launches were postponed because of glitches with some of the test sensors, which were not relaying data to testers.


"The test sensors were damaged by unexpected warping of soft airframe from stress of landing, can't get off carrier again, death spiral, waaaagh."

It look like they did do at least one touch and go with no. 75, as the hook wasn't down. Also at least one fly pass of the carrier with hook down, maybe a test point, maybe just because?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 14:13
by XanderCrews
mk82 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:


You got that right!


Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.

They are handling it just swell.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 16:30
by hookswing
Watch this angle!! I allready saw the helicopter "hanging", this is great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYFIdpeoFaY


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 16:47
by lamoey
Here is Aviation Week's take on the event:

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35cs-make-first-carrier-landings

Both aircraft made highly stable approaches, and trapped firmly on the third of the Nimitz's four arrestor wires. The touchdown spot between the second and third wires is considered the optimum for carrier landings. The landing was also key test for the F-35C's arresting hook system, which had to be redesigned with additional stiffness, a modified hold-down damper and revised shaping after poor performance in tests three years ago at Naval Air Warfare Center Lakehurst, New Jersey. Having delayed the start of carrier trials, the performance of the redesigned hook was a significant watch item. "It's a little bit different of a design, and obviously it works," says U.S. Pacific Fleet Naval Air Forces Commander Vice Adm. David Buss.


"I was watching the angle-of-attack indicators," Senior Chief Petty Officer Alistair McIntyre says. ''As they came in [to land] from the break it was perfect green all the way in. It was stable all the way in for both approaches. I was amazed for that being their first time landing on the carrier as it looked like both pilots were old pros at landing F-35s. They came in on the glideslope and landed with no problems. It felt like we'd been doing this for a long time."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 17:51
by Lightndattic
Corsair1963 wrote:
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:


I'll bet they will cry about it being perfect weather, no swells and slower than usual speed of the boat, because, you know with testing they immediately go to the most challenging conditions right off the bat.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 18:23
by sprstdlyscottsmn
for a few years I had been using artwork of the "Sea" on final to the boat as my desktop background. Happy to change it to "Sea" inches off the deck of it's first trap (a 3-wire no less!) A great day for Naval Aviation.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 18:28
by XanderCrews
Lightndattic wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:


I'll bet they will cry about it being perfect weather, no swells and slower than usual speed of the boat, because, you know with testing they immediately go to the most challenging conditions right off the bat.


They can cry all they want, they made such a ruckus about the hook not working they forgot to bash it for other reasons like how it handles behind the boat, or adverse weather, and rough seas. So as soon as the hook caught, well case closed. Its been funny watching Doug and Sols reactions to this as they sputter, trying to find anything to make this seem trivial when of course had it gone the other way...

The other nice thing is that the Hook was a bit of a lightning rod. Its easy to explain and get people angry about how the "Tailhook doesn't even work wehh!" than it is to explain how technical minutia still isn't working. The hook is fixed, it has been for a while but now everyone can see it in its proposed environment. so long story short, the molehill made into a mountain is back to being a molehill. 4 years ago you were considered nuts to think the JSF program was going to make it, now you are nuts if you think it won't.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 18:49
by sferrin
Lightndattic wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
mk82 wrote:This awesome news! Looks like the tailhook redesign is working as advertised (aboard a carrier that is :devil: )

I wonder if the F35C's new hook has been hooking ELPie's and Sweetie pie's brains as well.....wait a minute....those guys have no brains!




Yeah, the F-35 Critics are going to be eating a lot crow over the next couple of years. :wink:


I'll bet they will cry about it being perfect weather, no swells and slower than usual speed of the boat, because, you know with testing they immediately go to the most challenging conditions right off the bat.


They can't do that though. Look at the video again and check out the front end of the ship and the horizon as the F-35 is sitting there before it turns off to the right. :shock:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 18:50
by sferrin
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 19:15
by netcentric
sferrin wrote:
Lightndattic wrote:...I'll bet they will cry about it being perfect weather, no swells and slower than usual speed of the boat, because, you know with testing they immediately go to the most challenging conditions right off the bat.



They can't do that though. Look at the video again and check out the front end of the ship and the horizon as the F-35 is sitting there before it turns off to the right. :shock:





Not sure why you used a shocked emoticon when describing the calm seas they were in.

Are you implying that the conditions on that deck were 'challenging' ?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 19:22
by spazsinbad
The PACIFIC can have long rolling swell that will move any large ship a little as seen in the No.2 video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BOt0a_tGRg ) however the conditions are benign as they should be for any initial testing.

One NEVER wants to correct a CHIEF and I will say it is likely he has been 'verballed'. Why? Because GREEN in the approach light indicates SLOW. Red indicates FAST whilst ORANGE is Optimum Angle of Attack. From my recollection I can see only steady ORANGE during the No.2 video. Whilst it blinks when the HOOK is UP which indicates same to those interested. During FCLP the 'hook bypass (approach light) switch' will be actuated by ground personnel before flight so that 'hook up' FCLP approaches can be made ashore without the light blinking. I hope that makes sense. Smoke 'em if youse got 'em. :mrgreen:

Now that I have rewatched the video I see the orange (Opt AoA) steady on first approach (with nibbling to the right which is necessary as explained earlier). The second approach has the green showing for a millisecond or two but so what - otherwise orange.

THE HOWL during the touch and goes must be MAGIC to hear. :devil:

Bye the Bye or BTW it would seem IF the Break My Fence story about no catapulting is correct then the two aircraft arrested once each to stay onboard. That means the aircraft seen in the No.2 video did touch and goes and wave off(s) before arresting. Coolio.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 19:31
by sferrin
Okay. Just saw the front end bobbing up and down and thought, "that doesn't look smooth to me".

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 20:00
by XanderCrews
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


One of those "oh you really are nuts" moments.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 20:22
by alloycowboy
XanderCrews wrote:
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


One of those "oh you really are nuts" moments.


In Canada we use the slang term, "crayon eater" for people like that.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 20:51
by spazsinbad
There are many 'cross deck pedants' (yep that is correct) on pPrune. One of them pointed out that the first arrestee tickles No.2 wire as it passes overhead. Quelle Horreur! Sacre Bleu! ForFsake. So the guy was a little low and no damage was done but anyway... :doh: :mrgreen: :devil: here are two SloMos for ye. The first is at one/eighth speed and the second has been one eighthed agin.




Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 21:20
by spazsinbad
One cannot keep up... A good compilation video here with scenes not seen by me before. I guess it will be on youtube soon if not now?
GREAT COMPILATION VIDEO:
http://www.livescience.com/48597-joint- ... video.html
&
The NavAir story: http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=5766

Great Pics: http://www.navair.navy.mil/img/uploads/ ... _007_1.jpg (first attached only thumb - big is 4Mb)
&
http://www.navair.navy.mil/img/uploads/ ... __17_1.jpg (+ carrier) (3.4Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 21:41
by Raptor_claw
spazsinbad wrote:...IFthe Break My Fence story about no catapulting is correct then the two aircraft arrested once each to stay onboard. That means the aircraft seen in the No.2 video did touch and goes and wave off(s) before arresting. Coolio.

True, no cat shots yesterday (Monday). I haven't seen any press today (yet), but I can tell you there have been more traps on Tuesday - so you can figure out (by extrapolation) that cat shots have been done (today).

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 21:57
by spazsinbad
Good to know 'Raptor_claw' thanks.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 22:57
by quicksilver
Also some really terrific photos at Flickr. Go there and type F-35C Nimitz.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 23:01
by cantaz

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2014, 23:20
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'cantaz' I like the magic HOWL for touch and goes again. During the last approach we can see the ORANGE optimum angle of attack approach light steady all the way.


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 00:28
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:The PACIFIC can have long rolling swell that will move any large ship a little as seen in the No.2 video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BOt0a_tGRg ) however the conditions are benign as they should be for any initial testing.

One NEVER wants to correct a CHIEF and I will say it is likely he has been 'verballed'. Why? Because GREEN in the approach light indicates SLOW. Red indicates FAST whilst ORANGE is Optimum Angle of Attack. From my recollection I can see only steady ORANGE during the No.2 video. Whilst it blinks when the HOOK is UP which indicates same to those interested. During FCLP the 'hook bypass (approach light) switch' will be actuated by ground personnel before flight so that 'hook up' FCLP approaches can be made ashore without the light blinking. I hope that makes sense. Smoke 'em if youse got 'em. :mrgreen:

Now that I have rewatched the video I see the orange (Opt AoA) steady on first approach (with nibbling to the right which is necessary as explained earlier). The second approach has the green showing for a millisecond or two but so what - otherwise orange.

THE HOWL during the touch and goes must be MAGIC to hear. :devil:

Bye the Bye or BTW it would seem IF the Break My Fence story about no catapulting is correct then the two aircraft arrested once each to stay onboard. That means the aircraft seen in the No.2 video did touch and goes and wave off(s) before arresting. Coolio.


You can also hear it during the CAT video at about the 26-28 sec mark during the end run up to mil.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 00:39
by hb_pencil
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


I thought Doug had some modicum of balance and judgement, just bad information inputted in. However that comment is just disgraceful.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 01:26
by XanderCrews
hb_pencil wrote:
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


I thought Doug had some modicum of balance and judgement, just bad information inputted in. However that comment is just disgraceful.


indeed. The butthurt has been palatable.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 01:47
by popcorn
The "Brick" will go down in Navy lore as the guy who made history... now who was the guy in the second Lightning?
Life isn't fair :D

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... -landings/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 02:25
by mk82
cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 02:34
by mk82
" Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention."

Looks like this c*nt needs to be catapulted off a carrier into a sea of sh*t! Just when you think that these mouthbreathers can't sink any lower.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 02:53
by count_to_10
mk82 wrote:
cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!

Though that does bring up the question of what load they are carrying.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 03:11
by spazsinbad
I'm in thunderstorm city this afternoon so I'll have to go offline and I'll be bock however here is a link on the old "Lakehurst" thread that explains the way Supers and LIGHTENings (oops) are Launched (not lunched): Gotta go now and will add or reformat later.... GO HERE FOR MOST OF IT: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=infancy#p200694
JBD Testing A Key Step For Joint Strike Fighter
18 Jul 2011 Amy Butler | Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J.; Aviation Week & Space Technology p. 84

"...Even without the more extensive data provided by today’s sensor array, Super Hornet engineers gained valuable experience during JBD trials that led to a change in how the aircraft is launched. During testing, hot air was inadvertently recirculated into the air intake of the Super Hornet, prompting a “pop stall,” or hiccup in the airflow for the propulsion system. The result was a dangerous fireball coughing from the back of the Super Hornet, says Briggs.

The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs.

Having completed the first phase of JBD trials with a single F-35C, engineers are eager to test a more realistic scenario with one aircraft in front of the deflector and one behind.

Because of this lesson, the limited afterburner setting was designed into the F-35 in its infancy...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/lakehurst/nl ... esting.pdf (125Kb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 03:13
by mk82
count_to_10 wrote:
mk82 wrote:
cantaz wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHanYrZ2ZM&list=UUKuSaHewQKWjR2wFuqfkMEA

Cat shots are up!


The "Sea/C" is progressing well on its carrier trials!!

Is the "Sea/C" being catapulted off the Nimitz just on Mil power? If that is the case, that is a very clear illustration how much non augmented thrust the F135 can put out!!

Though that does bring up the question of what load they are carrying.


I suspect empty (internal) pylons and at least < 50% internal fuel.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 04:00
by spazsinbad
Puhleez, the aircraft are being tested so they will have all kinds of loadouts - perhaps not today or even next week or even in DT I or DT II or DT III. Who knows. Who knows what is inside if it is not specified in a report. IF we catch a glimpse of the WEIGHT BOARD in a photo or video we may be able to guess. Best to stick with what is known.

The aircraft has a maximum carrier landing weight which has been explained a few times now on this forum. When the first pilots are becoming day carrier qualified - from the carrier - they may be able to initially launch at just above the maximum CLW so that by the time they are catapulted and downwind turning base they will be at max. weight. IF they are too heavy in this situation then they may have dumped fuel already so as to be at that weight. Then they can arrest/launch arrest/launch and because they are test pilots once qualified in daytime they will carry out odd approaches with odd WOD Wind Over the Deck so that the initial Launch Bulletin for the aircraft can be determined.

Later that bulletin will be expanded with asymmetric stores/loadouts - you name it they will do it. These things have been hinted at in the NavAir story if I remember correctly (or at least in some stories so far).

Meanwhile the variable afterburner story tells a story. And because this is testing the parameters for A/B or MIL power will be tested under all kinds of launch conditions also. I would not worry about what they are carrying - yet.
_____________________

Thunderstorms are hammering my local area today so I'll apologise in advance if this extra post stops abruptly. The RCLW was the acronym to search the forum for (or Lakehurst thread at least) for the KPP description of what that is and how it applies to the F-35C. Small PDF (author Bowman) has the story here:
Scorecard
Apr 2008 LCDR Bowman USN

“...The Navy has added approach speed as a service specific key performance parameter. The threshold for approach speed is 145 knots with 15 knots of wind over the deck. This must be possible at Required Carrier Landing Weight (RCLW). The RCLW is the sum of the aircraft operating weight, the minimum required bringback, and enough fuel for two instrument approaches & a 100nm BINGO profile to arrive at a divert airfield with 1000 pounds of fuel. The minimum required bringback is two 2000 pound air-to-ground weapons & two AIM-120s. The Navy further requires that the CV JSF be capable of carrier recovery with internal & external stores; the external stations must have 1000 pound capability on the outboard stations & maximum station carriage weight on the inboard.”

Source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-14791.html (PDF (0.25Mb)

The effect approx. is this:
"The [F-35C] max trap weight will be around 46k lbs, with an empty weight of about 35k lbs. It will fly an on-speed AOA of 12.3° at 135-140 KCAS [Optimum AofA or Donut]. [which at max. arrest weight at moment is more likely 145KCAS]
LT. Dan "Butters" Radocaj VX-23 Ship Suitability

Source: http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesM ... er2010.pdf (about 1 Mb if you can find it)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 04:41
by popcorn
Yup, not the time to get too technical.. let‘s just savor the bitchslap moment to all the negativists. :D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 07:43
by spazsinbad
Always we see how 'negative' the USN is supposed to be about the F-35C but never any quotes. And yet but also I see plenty of public quotes about how interested the USN bigwigs are in it all. So here goes... AND why is this quote here - well the TITLE goshdarnit and...? Well because even numnuts like BreakYourFaceDaFence need reminding to not just spread rumours but to back them up with some quotes. Hokay?
F-35C Landing on the Nimitz: Getting Ready for the USS Ford
04 Nov 2014 SLDinfo

"...Admirable Moran But let me close by circling back to the future of the air wing for the next 20 years and the value we see in the F-35C.

We are buying all production aircraft currently.

We see the coming of the Ford and the coming of the F-35 as highly synergistic for the fleet and its operation as a sea base.

And with the F-35C must come Block 3F capability, which has a fully enabled set to operate the weapons we use at sea, multi-ship integration and a host of other very important capabilities important to how we expect to operate in the future.

We are not going to accelerate the number of production airplanes until we get to Block 3F which will give us the capability that we need to operate off the carrier.

Once we marry up F-35C with key capability investments in the Super Hornet, E-2D, [EA-18G] Growlers, and a mix of unmanned capabilities, we will continue to have an air wing that can dominate in any environment...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/f-35c-landing-on ... -uss-ford/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 09:14
by spazsinbad
This chap seems to have a clue...
Navy Makes History with First F-35C Carrier Landing
04 Nov 2014 Kris Osborn

"..."In order to withstand the forces experienced during an arrested landing, the keel of an F-35C is strengthened and the landing gear is of a heavier-duty build than the A and B models," an official with the F-35 Integrated Test Force said.

The wings of the F-35C are also built with what's called "aileron control surfaces" designed to provide control power to roll the aircraft at slow approaching speeds, Wilson told Military.com earlier this year.

At sea, pilots must account for their speed as well as the speed of the wind, the weather, or visibility conditions as well as the speed of the boat, Wilson explained.

"The landing area is constantly changing. This is a challenge to structure of the aircraft because there is no way of knowing for certain how hard we are going to hit the deck or at what angle they are going to be at," he added.

On an aircraft carrier, the ship has arresting wires or metal cables attached to hydraulic engines used to slow the aircraft down to a complete stop within the landing area.

"On an aircraft carrier, the landing area is off about 10-degrees. The boat's motion itself is moving away from you — so you can't just aim at the boat," Wilson said.

The cable is four to six inches above the deck of the carrier and hydraulic fluid controls the pace of deceleration for the aircraft, Wilson said. A hook lowers from the back end of the F-35C aircraft, designed to catch the cable and slow down the plane.

"In order to maintain our stealth configuration, we had to put the hook internal to the airframe. On all the legacy systems, the tail hook sits up underneath the engine externally. We have three doors that open up to allow the tail hook to fall down," Wilson said.

The aircraft also needs to be able to withstand what's called a "free flight," a situation where the pilot receives a late wave off to keep flying after the hook on the airplane has already connected with the wire, he explained.

"We need to be sure that the engine and the aircraft itself can handle the stress of essentially being ripped out of the air by the interaction between the cable and the hook," Wilson added.

Describing landing as a controlled crash into the aircraft carrier, Wilson explained that pilots look at a light on the ship called the Fresnel Lens in order to orient their approach...."

Source: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... nding.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 09:53
by spazsinbad
And this one with some good details and ???? (you'll see...)...
Navy's newest aircraft lands perfectly on its oldest aircraft carrier
03 Nov 2014 Dan Parsons

"Just after noon on 3 November, a Lockheed Martin F-35C Lightning II shot into view over the stern of the USS Nimitz for a low pass, the first of three [Two T&Gs and a Wave OFF?] before the pilot made a picture perfect landing on the third arresting wire of the aircraft carrier.

The F-35C flight test aircraft, CF-3, hooked the third arresting wire at 12:58, about 40nm (74km) southwest of San Diego. An hour later, CF-5 performed a fly-by, then a touch-and-go and finally an arrested landing.... [Whatever]

...The aircraft made an hour-long flight from Yuma, Arizona, where they underwent preliminary maintenance in preparation for their two-week deployment aboard the Nimitz. Plans were to both land and then launch at least one jet on 3 November by way of the ship’s steam-powered catapult system, but the launches were scrapped because of telemetry issues.

“It’s nothing that we can’t recover from for tomorrow,” Buss said....

...What most impressed Buss was the stability of the F-35 on approach. Both CF-3 and CF-5, as the test jest are designated, made ideal arrested landings on the third deck wire.

“The most remarkable thing was how steady and stable it was on approach. I didn’t see a lot of control surface movement,” he says. “Both aircraft landed exactly where we wanted them to.”

The F-35C is augmented with a new “delta” control law to improve stability on a fixed glideslope to a carrier deck, a first for a manned aircraft landing on a carrier.

The ship and both F-35Cs will stay at sea for the next two weeks, during which time the envelope for flight operations will continually be opened. Changes will be made in the attitudes of the landings as well as direction and speed, Buss said. The test pilots will next try cross-wind landings, landings with the deck at variable pitch angles. Night landings are scheduled for 13-15 November.

Developmental testing phase two is scheduled to begin in 10 months, aboard an undesignated carrier. Final testing phase three is scheduled for 2016..."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ft-405629/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 12:23
by quicksilver
"Always we see how 'negative' the USN is supposed to be about the F-35C but never any quotes. And yet but also I see plenty of public quotes about how interested the USN bigwigs are in it all. So here goes... AND why is this quote here - well the TITLE goshdarnit and...? Well because even numnuts like BreakYourFaceDaFence need reminding to not just spread rumours but to back them up with some quotes."

Yeah, some quotes because we all know how accurate everything in the media is these days... :roll:

The Navy will progressively push the 'I believe' button as Navy-unique capabilities are successfully demonstrated.

But, as an infamous character in US film history once said, "...follow the money." In other words, talk is cheap; what's in the budget...SHs or F-35s, and in what numbers?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 14:27
by quicksilver
From VADM Buss in one of the cited articles --

“The most remarkable thing was how steady and stable it was on approach. I didn’t see a lot of control surface movement,” he says. “Both aircraft landed exactly where we wanted them to.”

He clearly was observing from Vultures Row or PriFly (i.e. above the jet where the control surface movements are less apparent) because the control surfaces were highly active as anyone can see in the videos. However, that's what we should expect to see -- the jet is doing most of the work, not the pilot. Pilot just commands glideslope and line-up with his right hand. Airspeed will stay where he puts it (left hand) until he commands otherwise.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 14:32
by XanderCrews
hb_pencil wrote:
sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
Doug Allen Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:10:00 AM
Part of me wants these trials to fail spectacularly enough for there to be a public outcry. Another class-A mishap perhaps? No loss of life, of course, but enough to get the mainstream media's attention.


They are handling it just swell.


Wow that Doug Allen sounds like a real classy piece of $hit. :doh:


I thought Doug had some modicum of balance and judgement, just bad information inputted in. However that comment is just disgraceful.


I can't post there, because he blocked me but everyone should go there and call him out.

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... plode.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 15:29
by sferrin
Solomon is in full denial mode as well. He still deletes my posts though. :lol:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 15:36
by mk82
" http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... plode.html "

Loving this Bat Man character. He sure makes these mouthbreathers look like the idiots they truly are.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 15:41
by mk82
sferrin wrote:Solomon is in full denial mode as well. He still deletes my posts though. :lol:


Well, a tailhook could drop on Solomon's head and he will have no idea what it is used for (well in Solomon's case, he should use it to f**k himself)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2014, 22:15
by XanderCrews
sferrin wrote:Solomon is in full denial mode as well. He still deletes my posts though. :lol:


When you are that sure of something and secure in your position and confident, its the only logical choice.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 01:11
by spazsinbad

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 02:33
by blindpilot

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 02:43
by quicksilver
Great pics.

Sad to see that the F-35 sucks so bad that the USG and its overseas partners plan on ramping up annual production to 120+ within the next three years, while the program's PEO is signaling the intent to try to buy more sooner (Block Buys and MYP).

We're doomed...

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 02:43
by smsgtmac
spazsinbad wrote:Pics of catadepults here: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... ss-nimitz/

http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... imitz3.jpg

Boom laka laka Boom laka laka....


You can't tell me the jet's front profile in first shots of that video don't harken back to days of yore, suggesting resemblance of an earlier jet :D

F-3-to-F-35.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 04:00
by popcorn
popcorn wrote:The "Brick" will go down in Navy lore as the guy who made history... now who was the guy in the second Lightning?
Life isn't fair :D

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... -landings/

Ahh..mystery solved Mr. Elliot "Hemo" Clemence and he will go on the record as doing the first cat launch .

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 04:17
by spazsinbad
I will guess until the first cat guy is published it may not be Eliot but good one if he is. Shows the two shared the honours. Remember the videos may be edited incorrectly - recall the first deck landing videos had arrests then touch and goes leading some to think there were catapults on the first day. I do not claim to know about the catapults by the way. Anyhoo... here's Eliot:

https://www.f35.com/media/videos-detail ... episode-37

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 04:43
by spazsinbad
Norris (not Chuck) went out there so more to follow: Of course the story is similar but somehow the details are always different but do we care? Do we care that AvWeak website reliably crashes my computer (along with Jalopnik). What does that say? Do we care.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :devil:
F-35Cs Make First Carrier Landings
04 Nov 2014 Guy Norris | AWIN First

"The first pair of Lockheed Martin F-35Cs successfully completed arrested landings on the carrier USS Nimitz off the California coast on Nov. 3, marking the start of the at-sea developmental test phase for the Joint Strike Fighter and the shipborne debut of the Navy's first piloted stealth aircraft.

The first F-35C to land, CF-03 from Navy Air Test and Evaluation Squadron VX-23, touched down at 12:18 p.m. after flying out to the carrier from Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona. Flown by Navy test pilot Cmdr. Tony "Brick" Wilson, the aircraft first made a low approach and overshoot, followed by a touch-and-go with the tailhook retracted. Finally, with an F/A-18F acting as chase, Wilson brought the F-35C in for the first arrested landing. A second aircraft, CF-05, arrived less than an hour later and landed successfully at 1:11 p.m., flown by Lt. Cmdr. Ted "Dutch" Dyckman.

Both aircraft made highly stable approaches, and trapped firmly on the third of the Nimitz's four arrestor wires. The touchdown spot between the second and third wires is considered the optimum for carrier landings....

...Although calm seas and light winds from the northwest contributed to the benign conditions and resulting trouble-free landings, both pilots partly attributed the precision touchdowns and stable approaches to the F-35C's integrated direct lift control feature. Embedded in the flight control software for all three JSF variants, direct lift is particularly useful for the F-35C because it provides greatly improved glide slope control, test pilot Wilson says.

Unlike conventional carrier aircraft, in which the pilot approaches the carrier with flaps set at a fixed position and adjusts power and pitch attitude to stay on the glideslope, the F-35 system controls power through an "auto-thrust" function and alters the position of the trailing edge flap in response to the pilot's inputs. "So the stick becomes my glideslope controller," Dyckman notes. "If I pull back the flap adds lift, if I push forward it commands a steeper approach," he says. As nominal flap position for a carrier approach is 15 degrees, or half-flap, this provides ample margin for additional flap movement to add or reduce lift. Wilson says the effect is to "change the 'heave' of the aircraft, rather than the pitch." ...

...The landings marked the start of a two-week Developmental Testing I (DT-I) phase for the F-35C that will evaluate primarily daylight carrier operations, including launch and recovery handling with a variety of crosswinds and wind-over-deck speeds. Catapult tests will evaluate the takeoff characteristics across a broad range of excess speed settings, varying from a minimum of around 5 kt. to a maximum of about 45 kt. "We will gradually expand the operational envelope," Buss says. "Having two aircraft will give us the ability to move them around the carrier, and look at the first set of results as we change the wind envelope and wind directions. If we can get all these things done in time then from Nov. 13-16 we may have the first nighttime operations," he adds. Results will be built into the next test phase, DT-II, scheduled for September 2015. This will include additional day/night operations, initial weapons trials with internal and external stores as well as maximum power launches from both the bow and waist catapults. A third and final phase, DT-III, is expected in the March/April 2016 timeframe. The U.S. Navy anticipates declaring initial operational capability of the F-35C in August 2018 with the first squadron expected to embark on an as-yet-unnamed, West Coast-based carrier earlier that year."

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... /Nike2.jpg

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35cs- ... r-landings

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 05:53
by popcorn
spazsinbad wrote:I will guess until the first cat guy is published it may not be Eliot but good one if he is. Shows the two shared the honours. Remember the videos may be edited incorrectly - recall the first deck landing videos had arrests then touch and goes leading some to think there were catapults on the first day. I do not claim to know about the catapults by the way. Anyhoo... here's Eliot:

https://www.f35.com/media/videos-detail ... episode-37

You're right, the chronology of the video is inconclusive at best and Clemence may not even be aboard ship... the pilot who landed afterCmdr. Brick Wilson was LCmdr Dutch Dykman per the article you linked.. all will be revealed in time.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 05:56
by spazsinbad
Yes. We can see how 'reporters without notebooks' (like doctors without borders) can get things wrong. It seems NORRIS has the details down except the repeated quote from the CHIEF about seeing 'all green all the way' when it should be all the way with LBJ/orange. :mrgreen: Which reminds me - the orange people have their F-35s up.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 07:07
by meatshield
blindpilot wrote:And for film at 11 - ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFGzgvgltMw

BP


So I'm watching the above video and the first one at the instant after launch does the pilots helmet hit the canopy? He certainly bounces a lot! I'm watching it on an iPad mini so could be wrong...

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 07:51
by spazsinbad
Certainly he bounces and perhaps that can be fixed - don't know. However I'll wager this pilot was strapped in tight if he has any sense and his helmet is not likely to have hit the canopy. Remember we look from a slant view angle. In any event the helmet is there for good reason and if helmet did contact canopy then that protection is there - but I doubt it very much.

Depending on what one might be told about first catapult shot may influence what a pilot does but any jet pilot will be well strapped in - so much so THAT IT HURTS. I had permanent bruises on my collarbone - particularly from the poor seat position when strapped in to the MACCHI MB326H (a different story). One clenches what one wishes to clench before the first catapult shot (which will not be that Cee pilot experience - remember also many catapults have been conducted ashore) and he will also have many other aircraft catapults under his belt if we don't know better. What catches the novice often is the punch in the chest from the horizontal G force. Some say they scream all the way down as a way to stop the effect of the punch. An A4G catapult was too short to do much other than bear it (5-6G down 100-110 feet in around 1 second and a bit).

[ADDITION] Certainly for example in an A4G (a very small cockpit - with a very long nose oleo underneath) it was possible to sit way up high so that your helmet grazed the top of the canopy (that was my preferred position all the time with one exception never repeated - and I'm six foot). Some A4G pilots would have their seat at lowest position for catapulting. The claim was that they could read the instruments better especially for night catapulting and using the primary handle (over head/helmet). Yeah right. Have the seat up high for the best view and use the secondary handle (the quickest). My night cat shot with the seat at lowest was the biggest deliberate mistake I ever made - completely bewildered because I was not used to that seat/view position off the catapult. Could have trialled it in the daytime but - what did I know. :doh: Never again. Again strap in until it hurts - if it don't hurt - you ain't strapped in.

Video clip is One-Eighth Slow Motion


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 08:27
by spazsinbad
This picture would be online I'm sure however just received this small version via e-mail which shows how low this pilot is seated. Perhaps he learnt this from the first chap? Dunno. See my preferred possie above. Other e-mail photo titles say that CMDR Sewell in CF-05 is the first catapult F-35C pilot - but again this will be confirmed at some point I guess.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 09:02
by johnwill
That extreme bounce response at the start of the cat stroke could be caused by nose gear shock strut extension damping being too low or strut pressure being too high. When the launch bar pulls forward and down and the holdback suddenly releases, the gear strut is fully compressed. So the strut extends rapidly, driving the fuselage upward. With more extension damping or lower strut pressure, the extension would occur slower and reduce the bounce.

However, at the end of the cat stroke, the strut will be fully compressed again by the launch bar load. At that point, low strut extension damping and high strut pressure is desired so fast strut extension will rotate the airplane for takeoff. Strut extension damping and strut pressure is therefore a compromise between the two goals - bounce control and takeoff rotation.

Of course, rotation is also provided by horizontal tail and rudder deflection. From the cat shot video, you can see the deflections are fixed during the shot. It might be possible to get the same rotation with more surface deflection and slower gear strut extension (more strut extension damping or lower strut pressure).

Strut extension damping adjustment may require dis-assembly of the gear to change the damping orifice, but pressure can be adjusted by adding or bleeding air from the strut. It will be interesting to see more cat videos as the tests progress and see if the bounce is better controlled.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 10:00
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'johnwill'.

Some good photos online top of page at moment with catapults featured. Meanwhile I like the base turn and downwind photos below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedmartin/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 534910527/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 534222259/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 10:14
by spazsinbad
Not only... but also... Aaron Mehta on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019? (I thought it was 2018).
F-35C Makes First Arrested Landing on Aircraft Carrier
03Nov 2014 STAFF REPORT

NOTHING YOU HAVE NOT read/SEEN ALREADY except the video interview.

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... ft-Carrier

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 11:14
by spazsinbad
This one-eighth speed video shows the first catapult as seen in first slo mo video PLUS the second one (whichever order they are in I have no idea) so here goes:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 11:31
by popcorn
Does the Cee pilot fly "hands off" during launch?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 14:15
by sferrin
johnwill wrote:That extreme bounce response at the start of the cat stroke could be caused by nose gear shock strut extension damping being too low or strut pressure being too high. When the launch bar pulls forward and down and the holdback suddenly releases, the gear strut is fully compressed. So the strut extends rapidly, driving the fuselage upward. With more extension damping or lower strut pressure, the extension would occur slower and reduce the bounce.

However, at the end of the cat stroke, the strut will be fully compressed again by the launch bar load. At that point, low strut extension damping and high strut pressure is desired so fast strut extension will rotate the airplane for takeoff. Strut extension damping and strut pressure is therefore a compromise between the two goals - bounce control and takeoff rotation.

Of course, rotation is also provided by horizontal tail and rudder deflection. From the cat shot video, you can see the deflections are fixed during the shot. It might be possible to get the same rotation with more surface deflection and slower gear strut extension (more strut extension damping or lower strut pressure).

Strut extension damping adjustment may require dis-assembly of the gear to change the damping orifice, but pressure can be adjusted by adding or bleeding air from the strut. It will be interesting to see more cat videos as the tests progress and see if the bounce is better controlled.



It appears to have improved over the early launches though. There was one (I think the first one several years ago) where it looked like they were trying to bounce the pilot out of the cockpit it was so violent.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 16:58
by neptune
[quote="spazsinbad"].....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; 100+ a/c flying, how many (%) are "Cees"? :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 17:45
by sferrin
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; 100+ a/c flying, how many (%) are "Cees"? :wink:



The timing on the A's and B's is more critical. This isn't news.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 17:57
by spazsinbad
'popcorn' asked about the launch. "Does the Cee pilot fly "hands off" during launch?" As we can see from the photos the pilot has right hand on the grab handle on the right side of the canopy bow, while his left hand will be on the throttle - I will wonder about the mechanism to keep it at full power or A/B power (which varies as explained earlier). I'll guess that throttle mechanism is like that on the Super Hornet and I will look up what that might be. See photo on previous page:

Note how close helmet appears to canopy. There is an angle involved from photographer to subject from below to up so that distance will be misleading. I'll guess for this launch the pilot (with head/helmet firmly back on the headrest) is not worried about any bounce. The photo has been taken (see previous page) a millisecond after the hold back has broken - during the launch - the pilot MAY BE at the top of the bounce effect - if any. Invent your own scenario. Peruse more photos and videos when they become available. Look for stories about it all - that will help. Perhaps the whole project will be cancelled because of the bounce during catapulting? I recall reading stories about the DEMON :devil: or similar? which had an horrific catapult/pilot bounce issue. Those pilots were just glad it got off the deck and bounce be damned. :mrgreen:

download/file.php?id=19643&t=1 which is: http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... imitz3.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 18:08
by blindpilot
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......


The numbers speak for themselves; ... :wink:


"The Numbers Speak For Themselves ..." is a crap phrase, and implies a meaningless assertion.

I am guessing that the Navy "HATES" SSBN Ballistic Subs! I mean the numbers speak for themselves! When is the last time they bought an SSBN sub? !!! All they buy is SSNs!!! The numbers have spoken. The Navy only likes SSNs!

The Navy budget includes the Marines. As you lay out multi year expenditures, some years you buy AV8B+ aircraft for the jarheads, then the next few years you buy F/A18E/Fs for the swabbies, and then bring on the marine F35Bs, and layout the navy F35Cs in out years.

Its kind of hard to buy and bring on line 300 each AV8B+and F/A18E/F, or F35B's and F-35C's all in the same year. It also makes downstream recapitalization a real bitch, if you get into that type of procurement cycle.

Hey the Air Force brass hates Long Range Bombers! How many LR-Bs have they bought? All they buy is the fighters !!!

The numbers speak for themselves!!!!

Everyone understands this except a few Boeing shills who are desperate to sell 12 more F-18 E/F/Gs when they know full well even if they do, it will never be 300 more and the export sales will not happen. That "keep the line open fantasy world" is pure contractor self interest and totally lacking long term foresight. Go design a UAV, or 6 gen platform. Get back in the game.

The numbers speak for themselves? Tell that to Boeing. Gimme a break,

MHO
BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 18:13
by spazsinbad
Yes and follow the money eh. :mrgreen: However I feel the good Admirable expressed what the USN requires quite well and that was sufficient explanation for me. The USN require Block 3F F-35Cs - in number - I think he said. I should get the quote..... go here on page three of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281132&hilit=Ford#p281132
""...Admirable Moran But let me close by circling back to the future of the air wing for the next 20 years and the value we see in the F-35C.

We are buying all production aircraft currently.

We see the coming of the Ford and the coming of the F-35 as highly synergistic for the fleet and its operation as a sea base.

And with the F-35C must come Block 3F capability, which has a fully enabled set to operate the weapons we use at sea, multi-ship integration and a host of other very important capabilities important to how we expect to operate in the future.

We are not going to accelerate the number of production airplanes until we get to Block 3F which will give us the capability that we need to operate off the carrier.

Once we marry up F-35C with key capability investments in the Super Hornet, E-2D, [EA-18G] Growlers, and a mix of unmanned capabilities, we will continue to have an air wing that can dominate in any environment...."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 19:13
by neptune
blindpilot wrote:
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; ... :wink:


"The Numbers Speak For Themselves ..." is a crap phrase, and implies a meaningless assertion.

......



Gee, I see you didn't bother to provide the numbers, but I will later today! :D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 19:28
by blindpilot
neptune wrote:
blindpilot wrote:
neptune wrote:
The numbers speak for themselves; ... :wink:


"The Numbers Speak For Themselves ..." is a crap phrase, and implies a meaningless assertion.

......



Gee, I see you didn't bother to provide the numbers, but I will later today! :D


You don't have to dig up numbers!!!.. click on the little button "F-35 Aircraft database." in the top right corner. The guys HERE!!! keep a pretty good track of each aircraft, with pictures and every thing!

Stop acting like a secret agent expert exploring a conspiracy, and come into the light of reailty.

The point above, admittedly heavy laden with some sarcasm, is that the very phrase "The numbers speak for themselves" is rhetorical hogwash. There are ZERO, none, nada !!! New Long Range Bombers, ZERO new SSBNs and that means nothing. Procurement is a staged planned activity. If you ever had to work and plan out a contract, like many of the posters here have actually done in the real world, you'd know this.

*sigh* :roll:
BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 20:23
by spazsinbad
Looking for SuperHorny Throttle NATOPS info I came across this (which may have been posted before - I'll check) but worthwhile posting to show the complexity of fings these days... &... DO NOT AKS me to explain... I ain't no superhornypiloto. :mrgreen:
NATOPS FLIGHT MANUAL NAVY MODEL F/A-18E/F

“...2.1.1.1.10 RATS - Reduced Authority Thrust System. The reduced authority thrust system (RATS) reduces the wind-over-deck required for carrier landings by rapidly reducing thrust at the beginning of a successful arrestment, reducing the energy absorbed by the arresting gear. RATS logic, only resident in MC1, declares a successful arrestment if the landing gear and arresting hook are down and longitudinal deceleration is more than 1.0 g (a typical arrestment is approximately 3 g). MC1 sends a “set RATS on” signal to the FADECs, which reduce thrust to approximately 70% of MIL power. RATS logic also senses WonW, wheel speed (less than 20 knots), and THA to prevent the engines from spooling back to MIL power at the end of cable pullout. RATS operation is canceled when the throttles are reduced to IDLE (THA less than 10°). RATS operation is inhibited during single engine operation.

RATS operation can be overridden by advancing the throttles to full afterburner (THA within 2° of the MAX stop). With RATS enabled, afterburner operation is inhibited if the throttles are subsequently advanced to afterburner (below the MAX stop). If the throttles are in afterburner (below the MAX stop) during an arrested landing, RATS functions normally, rolling back both the main engine and the afterburner....
&
...2.1.1.1.12 ABLIM - Afterburner Limiting Function. The ABLIM function limits engine power to half afterburner with the throttles at MAX to prevent engine stalls due to exhaust gas reingestion. The system is only to be used during carrier-based operations. The function is pilot selectable with WonW. The system defaults to disabled (unboxed) after engine start. The ABLIM function is activated by selecting (boxing) the ABLIM option on the CHKLIST format with the FLAP switch in HALF or FULL. The ABLIM advisory is set to confirm that the function has been activated on both engines.

With the function activated, only half afterburner power is available with the throttles at MAX. Indicated fuel flows are reduced from 35,000 to 45,000 pph to about 25,000 pph. The function is automatically deactivated with acceleration due to a catapult launch, at 80 KCAS, or with WoffW. The ABLIM function is disabled with a FCC CH 1, 2, or 4; MC1, FADEC, or INS failure....”

Source: http://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-EF-000.pdf (19.6Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 20:40
by hookswing

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 20:42
by blindpilot
blindpilot wrote:... Procurement is a staged planned activity. If you ever had to work and plan out a contract, like many of the posters here have actually done in the real world, you'd know this.

*sigh* :roll:
BP


It is amazing how armchair experts fail to grasp that activity like the F-35 program is "sort of like rocket science." You actually have to know things, and plan for stuff.

Things like - if all the mechanics are working on A-10's it doesn't matter how many F-35s are parked on the ramp. You can only keep so many flying. Things like - you have to process the mountains of data from DT-1 on the aircraft carrier testing and that can take time, before you fly DT-2. Things like - if Lockheed Martin's production plant makes too many or too few of each type on the production line, you can get your entire subcomponent procurement channels hopelessly locked up and halted for the simple lack of ""one bolt or nut from timbuktu."

I made good money one year, working on solutions for Gates Rubber automated tire production, where if suddenly more trucks than muscle cars sold, they would have a huge pile of the wrong size/type tires. Success is not judged by "how many you make." You actually have to sell them, keep your suppliers at a managable pace, and get the products into the field doing something. System planning is not like football plays drawn in the dirt.

The Navy will bring the Seas to the fleet pretty much on schedule. That's probably a safer bet than the earlier USMC/AF schedules. And the US NAVY will be ready to use them in an integrated CEC that they created. An environment designed for the F-35 capabilities. The current testing is putting down the naysayers with each approach, landing, and cat launch.

BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 21:27
by spazsinbad
Yes - the USN are being cautious and for good reason(s) and they will prevail. Meanwhile here is the Super Hornet NATOPS gen which will be in a small part (think single engine) to what MAY BE going on in the F-35C. Some One Send Me the F-35C NATOPS PuhLeez. :mrgreen: The attached 2 page PDF is from same NATOPS which is easy to read and it included EMERGENCY Procedures OFF the catapult (scary stuff). Anyway as per (I would think) ALL NAVAL Aircraft have throttle friction to use as described
"...Throttle friction may be used to help prevent inadvertent retraction of the throttles during the catapult stroke. If required, it can be overridden if afterburner is needed due to aircraft/catapult malfunction...."

(the A-4 had not only this but a fold down 'catapult hand grip bar' to ensure that when both the bar and the throttle gripped at same time - when throttle full forward - that the throttle would not be retarded by any retards). I have a good story on the only authority available (NOT ME) about being catapulted in an A4G without this procedure - lordy lordy. :mrgreen:
F/A-18E/F NATOPS
WARNING
Ensure the WINGFOLD switch is lever-locked in the SPREAD position during takeoff checks. If the wings are commanded to unlock or fold during a catapult shot, the wings will unlock, the ailerons will fair, the wings may fold partially, and the aircraft will settle. :doh: [No Kidding] :devil:

2.1.1.4.2 Throttles. Two throttles, one for each engine, are located on the left console. Throttle movement is transmitted electrically to the corresponding FADEC for thrust modulation and to the FCCs for autothrottle operation. There is no mechanical linkage between the throttles and the engines. During engine start, advancing the throttles from OFF to IDLE opens the engine fuel control shutoff valves and, when commanded by the FADEC, provides fuel flow to the engines.

Afterburner operation is initiated by advancing the throttles through the MIL detent into the afterburner range. During catapult launch or carrier touchdown (WonW and launch bar or arresting hook extended), an afterburner lockout mechanism extends to preclude inadvertent afterburner selection. In such cases, the throttles can be moved to the afterburner range by raising the finger lifts on the front of each throttle or by applying a force of approximately 30 pounds.

During engine shutdown, the finger lifts must be raised to move the throttles to OFF, closing the engine fuel control shutoff valves. The throttle grips (figure 2-1) contain switches that allow control of various systems without moving the hand from the throttles.

Source: F/A-18E/F NATOPS http://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-EF-000.pdf (19.6Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 21:28
by XanderCrews
blindpilot wrote:
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:.....on a video talks about USN reluctance for F-35C and IOC 2019?.......quote]

The numbers speak for themselves; ... :wink:


"The Numbers Speak For Themselves ..." is a crap phrase, and implies a meaningless assertion.

I am guessing that the Navy "HATES" SSBN Ballistic Subs! I mean the numbers speak for themselves! When is the last time they bought an SSBN sub? !!! All they buy is SSNs!!! The numbers have spoken. The Navy only likes SSNs!

The Navy budget includes the Marines. As you lay out multi year expenditures, some years you buy AV8B+ aircraft for the jarheads, then the next few years you buy F/A18E/Fs for the swabbies, and then bring on the marine F35Bs, and layout the navy F35Cs in out years.

Its kind of hard to buy and bring on line 300 each AV8B+and F/A18E/F, or F35B's and F-35C's all in the same year. It also makes downstream recapitalization a real bitch, if you get into that type of procurement cycle.

Hey the Air Force brass hates Long Range Bombers! How many LR-Bs have they bought? All they buy is the fighters !!!

The numbers speak for themselves!!!!

Everyone understands this except a few Boeing shills who are desperate to sell 12 more F-18 E/F/Gs when they know full well even if they do, it will never be 300 more and the export sales will not happen. That "keep the line open fantasy world" is pure contractor self interest and totally lacking long term foresight. Go design a UAV, or 6 gen platform. Get back in the game.

The numbers speak for themselves? Tell that to Boeing. Gimme a break,

MHO
BP


LOL :D well said.

we can also take the number of Littoral Combat Ships to mean the USN, just love-loves them. Can't get enough LCS! Hates carriers, barely bought any aircraft carriers compared to LCS.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 00:28
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'hookswing' - great video. Do ya think that the last shot of No.3 wire being taken was just a fluke? :mrgreen:

In the first scene of the aircraft being marshalled onto the cat track can you see the 'head nod' from the cat director to get the aircraft to inch left a tad? These guys had it down to winks (when they weren't wearing goggles back on dem olden tymes). Nosewheel steering is such a boon on a carrier deck. I don't know how they used to do without it earlier.

Just the helo side view of the approaches with No.3 wire arrest in this video above excerpt: LATER we see a one eighth slow motion clip of the No.3 Wire arrest - boring huh. Screenshot shows main wheel smoke before the No.3 wire with the HOOK behind it.




Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 01:32
by archeman
Perhaps I missed it in the many varied videos posted so far, but is there one that shows the C's wings folding up?
I can see the F-18s and those are probably easiest to spot from some of the shots high above the ship by virtue of the fact that the F-35Cs don't seem to ever fold up their wing tips and the hornets always do.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 01:58
by spazsinbad
Do you need a photo of the F-35Cs with their wings folded on deck of NIMITZ? They may be out there however for the testing we will assume that the Cs have taken over the deck for the duration with the VX-23 Hornets fitting in with what is being done for the C test purposes (camera ship sometimes I guess amongst other things). Why fold the wings if not necessary - this is test time with many things being done and why complicate this with folding? Otherwise there is at least one clip of the C wing folding ashore if that is what you need.... Pics e-mailed to me will not have links...
&
"F-35C CF-8 taxis with wingtips up at Edwards AFB, California. Photo by Matthew Short"
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_8014.jpg
&
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_3272.jpg
"F-35C CF-2 with wings folded after its first flight on 29 April 2011."
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 6318767009
"First F-35C Production Aircraft
The first F-35C carrier variant production aircraft on the flight line in Fort Worth, Texas in March 2013. The aircraft, known as CF-6, is the first F-35C that will be delivered to the U.S. Navy for pilot and maintainer training."



Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 03:27
by spazsinbad
E-mailed pics which may be out there already....

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 03:28
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:This one-eighth speed video shows the first catapult as seen in first slo mo video PLUS the second one (whichever order they are in I have no idea) so here goes:



This is the one I was thinking of:

(1:23)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 04:08
by spazsinbad
Did not do slow motion but it can be done. I reckon the bounce has been decreased in the meantime. :mrgreen: It may be not even noticeable to the pilot - only to outside observers - there are comments by at least the first catapulter (it will be on this forum) about how the first catapult was like others (Hornets etc) but it is perhaps not easy to understand just what an overwhelming experience the catapult can impart - even when the pilot has hundreds. YMMV. BOOM! and you are off to the races with lots of things to do. I would say that IF the pilot is not disabled by the bounce and otherwise no ill effects are experienced by the human or mechanical units then it will be fine. This is what is being measured as we speak. Perhaps one day we will see a real slo mo high speed camera of an F-35C catapult. Have I posted a similar (but old of course) A4G catapult slomo? Can't remember - getting too old. For sure the video has been posted elsewhere. Fun times.


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 05:34
by smsgtmac
About the F-35C 'bounce' in the videos. I can think of a lot of variables that could factor into it, but looking at a pretty good 'shooter' video of repeated F-18 launches, I'd say the biggest variable was weight. some of those F-18's bounce pretty good! Hijinks by the Shooters aside, this video has some quality views including from inside the cockpit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unbmRg6t4p8
(don't embed vids often enough)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 05:57
by spazsinbad
Heheh, that was good until the 'sexy and we want to look elsewhere' rolled on. :mrgreen: Yes some bouncing baby girls and boys in that lot.

The BIG EFeLAnt in the whole shebang is the carrier landing arrest 'dead cat bounce'. What happens then? OMG it is gonna be way worse than any old OK cat shot. :devil:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 06:09
by spazsinbad
The current collection of F-35C Trial 2014 Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 734761507/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 06:59
by zero-one
I've been hearing that F-35C uses only Dry power to take off from the deck

One of the pictures on this site seems to confirm that
http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/11 ... eo-report/

What do you guys think?

Also, the guy who told me that said, that only the F-14D was capable of that feat among Naval Fighters before the Charlie did it 2 days ago

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 07:11
by spazsinbad
'zero-one' thanks - that is an excellent video - one minute of sheer joy and the few extra seconds reflect that. The video was on an earlier website, where it could not be saved. However on your link just right click on the playing video to save it to your computer at the 'zero-one' URL. There are just excellent scenes in it. BZ! :mrgreen:

IF you look back through this thread you will see an explanation about the variable afterburner in the Super Hornet and the F-35C (from lessons learnt). Bear in mind this is testing with one would think starting out easy to become more difficult as the session progresses. GO HERE for the VARIABLE A/B story:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=afterburner#p200694

By the By 'smsgtmac' that 'Don Bacon' over on comments at BreakaYourFace Defence is something else eh. Having provided a thorough easy to understand explanation of why carrier aircraft including the X-47B target no.3 wire out of four - if thus installed - at the Solomon site - deleted of course - I have not bothered since.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 08:12
by spazsinbad
'Wings of Gold' story from same source above has some great photos:
F-35 earns its ‘Wings of Gold’
04 Nov 2014 globalaviationreport

https://globalaviationreport.files.word ... 77-138.jpg
&
Check out the MAX HEAD ROOM on this chap:
https://globalaviationreport.files.word ... 6593_n.jpg

Source: http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/11 ... eo-report/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 18:38
by geforcerfx
zero-one wrote:I've been hearing that F-35C uses only Dry power to take off from the deck

One of the pictures on this site seems to confirm that
http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/11 ... eo-report/

What do you guys think?

Also, the guy who told me that said, that only the F-14D was capable of that feat among Naval Fighters before the Charlie did it 2 days ago

Would make sense to me, no weapons in DT1 if read right and I would assume there prob running 1/2 and 2/3 fuel loads so its not a heavy aircraft.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 18:51
by johnwill
In case anyone is wondering what "FTCE" on the nose gear door means, it is Flight Test Control Engineer. He is the connection between Engineering, Flight Test, and the crew chief to assure every test airplane is configured to the requirements set by Engineering for every flight. Changes to any configuration go through the control engineer - external store loadings, special instrumentation, software updates, new avionics, structural mods, etc.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 22:57
by neurotech
zero-one wrote:I've been hearing that F-35C uses only Dry power to take off from the deck

One of the pictures on this site seems to confirm that
http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/11 ... eo-report/

What do you guys think?

Also, the guy who told me that said, that only the F-14D was capable of that feat among Naval Fighters before the Charlie did it 2 days ago

Actually it was more that if the F-14D lost an engine during launch, the jet would not be controllable with the remaining engine in Burner.

The SuperBug CAN also launch in MIL power, but it limits launch weight and lowers safety margins if they loose an engine. It also reduces airframe stress if they launch in MAX burner.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 23:07
by spazsinbad
So this story is B/S then: the rest is here: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=afterburner#p200694
"...during Super Hornet tests, engineers were forced to stop and start the trials owing to problems with keeping the JBD water supply cool, Myers says.

Available instruments were also limited in number and function during the Super Hornet JBD trials. The instruments placed on intricate scaffolding behind the JBD have roughly doubled for the F-35 work. And Myers says these sensors are more sophisticated. During F/A-18 E/F trials, the sensors could measure only temperatures and wind in a single direction, says Tony Favorito, an aerospace engineer at Lakehurst. The sensors today can “measure anything coming at them” and take pressure readings from various directions. This is optimal because air behind the jet engine is “typically turbulent,” he notes. These readings are providing data on the air temperatures as well as helping to shape a more reliable picture of how air behind the F-35 will behave during actual launch operations at sea.

Even without the more extensive data provided by today’s sensor array, Super Hornet engineers gained valuable experience during JBD trials that led to a change in how the aircraft is launched. During testing, hot air was inadvertently recirculated into the air intake of the Super Hornet, prompting a “pop stall,” or hiccup in the airflow for the propulsion system. The result was a dangerous fireball coughing from the back of the Super Hornet, says Briggs.

The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs
...."

While the info from NATOPS Super Hornet is B/S also (see previous page only part here):
...2.1.1.1.12 ABLIM - Afterburner Limiting Function. The ABLIM function limits engine power to half afterburner with the throttles at MAX to prevent engine stalls due to exhaust gas reingestion. The system is only to be used during carrier-based operations. The function is pilot selectable with WonW. The system defaults to disabled (unboxed) after engine start. The ABLIM function is activated by selecting (boxing) the ABLIM option on the CHKLIST format with the FLAP switch in HALF or FULL. The ABLIM advisory is set to confirm that the function has been activated on both engines.

With the function activated, only half afterburner power is available with the throttles at MAX. Indicated fuel flows are reduced from 35,000 to 45,000 pph to about 25,000 pph. The function is automatically deactivated with acceleration due to a catapult launch, at 80 KCAS, or with WoffW. The ABLIM function is disabled with a FCC CH 1, 2, or 4; MC1, FADEC, or INS failure....”

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 01:07
by hookswing
Great to be part of making history!!

Watch "Catching Lightning F-35C" on YouTube - Catching Lightning F-35C: http://youtu.be/BtracnUxNAI



Source: http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/ftrStory. ... 3&id=84312

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 01:28
by blindpilot
hookswing wrote:Great to be part of making history!!

...

Source: http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/ftrStory. ... 3&id=84312


Thanks hookswing.

Hey spaz (and archeman) here's the elevator clip with the wings up for the trip to the hangar. Whew, ... at least now we know the wings can fold on the carrier too 8) LOL

F-35C elevator.jpg
Wings folded F-35C on elevator


BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 01:32
by spazsinbad
'hookswing' thanks for that and good luck out there.

One request please: Would you be able to pass along the Bureau Numbers of both aircraft out there, CF-03 and CF-05?

After an interval CodeOne magazine online posted some USN F-35C first flights with BuNos but nothing on the earlier ones above. Usually CodeOne posts the BuNos of the F-35Bs. TIA.

AND for BP: Yep I'll get onto it.... :mrgreen: Over the page there are two photos of the aircraft CHAINED on deck with FoldedFlopDoodles.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 01:58
by blindpilot
spazsinbad wrote:'hookswing' thanks for that and good luck out there.

...
AND for BP: Yep I'll get onto it.... :mrgreen: Over the page there are two photos of the aircraft CHAINED on deck with FoldedFlopDoodles.


I got it (the still pic) ... and when did you slip those others in the stack above.. I missed that edit... hard to keep up LOL

BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 02:05
by spazsinbad
:devil: YEP I'm sneaky that way. Rather than make Multi Pull quotes I ADD and sometimes SUBtract because - well... that is just me - I guess. :mrgreen: So Watch OUT! :drool: :roll: HERE I GO AGAIN..... :doh:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 02:56
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: Here is a page with BuNos - so I'll be gathering nuts in may to add the bits BuNo by BuNo overtime so be warned... :devil: CF-05 and Below NOT THERE!? Homie Pagie: http://www.joebaugher.com/

Same INFO replicated here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=26647
168057/168062 Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II
c/n BF-06/BF-11
168057 VM-01 delivered Jan 11, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168058 VM-02 delivered Jan 19, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168059 VM-03 delivered Jan 11, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168060 VM-04 delivered May 10, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168061 VM-05 delivered May 10, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168062 VM-06 delivered May 15, 2012 to VMFAT-501
______________________

168308/168314 Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II
c/n BF-12/BF-18.
168308 VM-07 for VMFAT-501
168309 VM-08 for VMFAT-501
168310 VM-09 for VMFAT-501
168311 VM-10 delivered Sep 27, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168312 VM-11 delivered Oct 19, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168313 VM-12 delivered Oct 4, 2012 to VMFAT-501
168314 VM-13 delivered Nov 6, 2012 to VMFAT-501
____________________

168717/168732 Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II
c/n BF-19/BF-34. VTOL version for US Marine Corps
168717 VK-15 delivered Oct 2012 to VMFAT-501
168718 VK-16 delivered Nov 16, 2012 to VMFA-121
168719 VK-01 delivered Oct 2012 to VMFA-121
168720 VK-02 delivered Dec 2012 to VMFA-121
168721 VK-03 delivered May 22, 2013 to VMFA-121
168722 VK-04 delivered Mar 2013 to VMFA-121
168723 VK-05 delivered Mar 2013 to VMFA-121
168724 VK-06 delivered May 22, 2013 to VMFA-121
168725 VK-07 delivered Mar 2013 to VMFA-121
168726 VK-08 for VMFA-121
168727 VK-09 for VMFA-121
168728 VK-10 for VMFA-121
168729 VK-11 for VMFA-121
168730 VK-12 for VMFA-121
168731 VK-13 for VMFA-121
168732 VK-14 for VMFA-121
_____________________

168733/168736 Lockheed Martin F-35C Lightning II
c/n CF-06/CF-09. Carrier-based version for US Navy
168733 NJ-101 delivered to VFA-101 Apr 24, 2013
168734 delivered to VFA-101 Apr 23, 2013
168735 delivered to VX-23 Aug 2, 2013
168736 delivered to VFA-101 Nov 7, 2013
_____________________

168839/168840 Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II
c/n BF-35/BF-37. VTOL version for US Marine Corps
______________________

168841/168848 Lockheed Martin F-35C Lightning II
c/n CF-10/CF-17. Carrier-based version for US Navy

Source: http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/ ... ies23.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 08:01
by neurotech
spazsinbad wrote:So this story is B/S then: the rest is here: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=afterburner#p200694
"...during Super Hornet tests, engineers were forced to stop and start the trials owing to problems with keeping the JBD water supply cool, Myers says.

Available instruments were also limited in number and function during the Super Hornet JBD trials. The instruments placed on intricate scaffolding behind the JBD have roughly doubled for the F-35 work. And Myers says these sensors are more sophisticated. During F/A-18 E/F trials, the sensors could measure only temperatures and wind in a single direction, says Tony Favorito, an aerospace engineer at Lakehurst. The sensors today can “measure anything coming at them” and take pressure readings from various directions. This is optimal because air behind the jet engine is “typically turbulent,” he notes. These readings are providing data on the air temperatures as well as helping to shape a more reliable picture of how air behind the F-35 will behave during actual launch operations at sea.

Even without the more extensive data provided by today’s sensor array, Super Hornet engineers gained valuable experience during JBD trials that led to a change in how the aircraft is launched. During testing, hot air was inadvertently recirculated into the air intake of the Super Hornet, prompting a “pop stall,” or hiccup in the airflow for the propulsion system. The result was a dangerous fireball coughing from the back of the Super Hornet, says Briggs.

The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs
...."

While the info from NATOPS Super Hornet is B/S also (see previous page only part here):
...2.1.1.1.12 ABLIM - Afterburner Limiting Function. The ABLIM function limits engine power to half afterburner with the throttles at MAX to prevent engine stalls due to exhaust gas reingestion. The system is only to be used during carrier-based operations. The function is pilot selectable with WonW. The system defaults to disabled (unboxed) after engine start. The ABLIM function is activated by selecting (boxing) the ABLIM option on the CHKLIST format with the FLAP switch in HALF or FULL. The ABLIM advisory is set to confirm that the function has been activated on both engines.

With the function activated, only half afterburner power is available with the throttles at MAX. Indicated fuel flows are reduced from 35,000 to 45,000 pph to about 25,000 pph. The function is automatically deactivated with acceleration due to a catapult launch, at 80 KCAS, or with WoffW. The ABLIM function is disabled with a FCC CH 1, 2, or 4; MC1, FADEC, or INS failure....”

Negative. The quote above is largely correct.

MAX is the power setting and in a FADEC engine like the F414 doesn't actually mean maximum possible thrust. The Navy F414s are FADEC restricted for various reasons.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 08:26
by spazsinbad
I think NATOPS Super Hornet Catapult Procedures and text in NATOPS about ABLIM and the story by BUTLER make it clear what is happening to the A/B if selected on the catapult for the Super Hornet - whilst a similar limited A/B for the first 80 knots or so will occur for the F-35C I'll guess (or whatever the Butler story says). The Super Hornet restriction on A/B would not apply ashore I'll imagine - I have not checked that in NATOPS - similarly I will imagine that the same will apply to the F-35C.

Let us be clear... using the term MAX in relation or in conjunction with AfterBurner with either the Super Hornet or F-35C is misleading (for those not willing to read the text cited or out there in the wild internet) without also adding the qualifying text 'limited' then perhaps adding 'full A/B' at the end of the catapult stroke (for simplicity). So 'MAX power/afterburner' it aint' at the start of the catapult stroke.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 17:32
by spazsinbad
First F-35C Catapult Launch Aboard USS Nimitz
Published on Nov 7, 2014 LockheedMartinVideos

"The F-35C Lightning II carrier variant completes the first catapult launch from the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz off the coast of San Diego during initial at-sea Developmental Testing I (DT-1). Learn how the F-35C operates at sea": http://bit.ly/10yEQOy



Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 18:41
by spazsinbad
Interesting to me anyway view of what the NIMITZ might be doing (not during these trials but generally). I must admit I do not understand all the acronyms displayed: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... e_ship.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 19:00
by spazsinbad
The image below is likely the first arrest (my guess) original image has been rotated 42 degrees left and cropped to make the image seen. Reason? We see the four sheaves for the four cross deck pendants with the empty sheave for the barricade near no.4 sheave (between no.3 & no.4 sheaves): http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.31 ... /image.jpg Jennifer Hlad - Stripes

FLICKR would be a useless way to search for photos but there it is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/

Probably best to go there now to scroll down to see a bunch of great photos of OPS aboard NIMITZ so far. Some examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15539776428/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15105268994/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15683231266/ (first arrest)
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15521756107/ (unexpectedly the LSOs can spell 'Lightning')
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15087001164/
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15087592893/ (first arrest)
&
https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/15725076691/ (NIMITZ + F-35Cs)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 19:35
by spazsinbad
F-35C Initial At-Sea Testing Progressing Aboard USS Nimitz
08 Nov 2014 USN PR

"SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- The F-35C Lightning II, the carrier variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, continues initial sea trials aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) off the coast of Southern California.

Through Nov. 6, the fourth day of at-sea testing, two test F-35C aircraft have completed 12 flights. During those 12 flights, the aircraft flew a combined 12.7 flight hours and accomplished 203 test points.

The Navy's newest fixed-wing fighter performed 55 catapult launches, 84 planned touch-and-go landings and 57 arrested landings. Through four days of at-sea testing, the test team successfully landed during every attempt, with zero bolters, or failures to catch an arresting cable on the flight deck.

With the last of the four test pilots completing carrier qualifications Nov. 6, all aircrew members are now carrier-qualified and able to fly the aircraft in test events.

During the first stage of developmental testing, the test team conducts a series of events designed to gradually expand the aircraft-operating envelope at sea. Events scheduled for Nov. 7 center on crosswind catapult launches and crosswind approaches to test the aircraft's ability to perform in both nominal and off-nominal conditions.

At-sea test delivers the opportunity to conduct operations in preparation for Navy F-35C initial operational capability scheduled for 2018."

Source: http://www.noodls.com/view/B897F88AD410 ... 1415467656

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2014, 23:43
by spazsinbad
Same info as immediately above post here with 3 pics (below): http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84347
"141105-O-ZZ999-041 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 6, 2014) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant joint strike fighter makes an arrested landing aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68). The F-35 Lightning II Pax River Integrated Test Force from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 is currently conducting initial at-sea trials aboard Nimitz. (U.S. Navy photo courtesy of Lockheed Martin by Andy Wolfe/Released)" http://www.navy.mil/view_image.asp?id=187318
BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 99-041.JPG (1Mb)

"141105-O-ZZ999-037 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 6, 2014) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant joint strike fighter makes an arrested landing aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68). The F-35 Lightning II Pax River Integrated Test Force from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 is currently conducting initial at-sea trials aboard Nimitz. (U.S. Navy photo courtesy of Lockheed Martin by Andy Wolfe/Released) http://www.navy.mil/view_image.asp?id=187317
BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 99-037.JPG (1Mb)

"141105-O-ZZ999-030 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 6, 2014) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant joint strike fighter makes an arrested landing aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68). The F-35 Lightning II Pax River Integrated Test Force from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 is currently conducting initial at-sea trials aboard Nimitz. (U.S. Navy photo courtesy of Lockheed Martin by Alexander H Groves/Released) http://www.navy.mil/view_image.asp?id=187315
BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 99-030.JPG (2Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Nov 2014, 01:00
by spazsinbad
Good slideshow of pics here: http://www.sldinfo.com/f-35c-carrier-tests/ & WINGS FOLDED!

I'm not going to try to find every photo but some will be of high interest to me to repost here, including this one showing CF-05 at Optimum Angle of Attack via orange nosewheel light: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... /11/47.gif

Optimum Angle of Attack is:
F-35C Opt AoA: VX-23 'Salty Dogs' F-35C Update
Sept 2010 LCDR Ken “Stubby” Sterbenz VX-23 Ship Suitability Department Head - Paddles Monthly

"...[The F-35C] will fly an on-speed AOA of 12.3° at 135-140 KCAS [Optimum AofA or Donut]. Due to the fact that flap scheduling is completely automatic, the cockpit was designed without a flaps switch...."

Source: http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesM ... er2010.pdf (1.3Mb PDF)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2014, 01:56
by spazsinbad
One wonders how 'external surface' might be on a milestone on another thread in this section - I guess that is a millstone that will be examined minutely with various methods over the trial time and beyond. Meanwhile back at the milestone event this video below shows plenty of outside views of current ops on NIMITZ.

Screenie of the Wing Foldie from video now attached...
F-35C Lightning II Launch and Land, Part 1
Published on Nov 9, 2014, US Military Videos & Photos

"F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighters launch from and land aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) off the coast of San Diego. The launches and recoveries are part of initial at-sea Developmental Testing I (DT-I) for the F-35C, which commenced Nov. 3 and is expected to last two weeks. The F-35C is the carrier variant (CV) of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter designed for the U.S. Navy as a first-day-of-war, survivable strike fighter complement to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. (U.S. Navy video/Released)"




Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2014, 19:31
by spazsinbad
LOOK MA - BOTH HANDS! [Zoomed - DoubleDutch] :devil: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 734761507/
"Taken on November 4, 2014 F-35C Sea Trials

The F-35C completes catapults and arrestments aboard the USS Nimitz during Developmental Testing I (DT-I), which is the first of three at-sea test phases planned for the U.S. Navy's F-35C carrier variant."

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 720532726/

BIG PIC: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7516/157 ... c8_o_d.jpg (0.5Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2014, 23:21
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:..
"141105-O-ZZ999-037 PACIFIC OCEAN ...]



STRIKE/ PADDLES????

Is there a PADDLES for CODs or EAs (the other tailhooks) ???

Do those squadrons pilots participate in the LSO program?

Would there be one for the C-130s if they were to return to the flightdeck??

What other a/c (less helos) have flown in on the flight deck besides Strike and the above?

Inquiring minds want to know? :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2014, 23:48
by spazsinbad
Note the logo? VX-23 'Strike Test' at Pax River responsible for testing the F-35B & F-35C at moment with other VX squadrons soon probably. Have you read the VX-23 Strike Test Newsletter? All the pointy nosed aircraft are tested by them all the time for various reasons. Other aircraft have their own test squadrons. Unfortunately a lot of USN stuff has been taken offline including the LSO school newsletters as well as VX-23 - OR - these newsletters have been made difficult to find at new urls. The yearly newsletter published Oct/Nov for 2014 should be online now (if available) so worth searching. I have been doing so without success so far.

2013 VX-23 PDF was here: http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=767

LIST VX Squadrons here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... Evaluation

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:21
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:..so worth searching. I have been doing so without success so far...


I will likewise, .....all else I'll ask (when they RTB) the latest horse's mouth. :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:25
by neurotech
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:..
"141105-O-ZZ999-037 PACIFIC OCEAN ...]



STRIKE/ PADDLES????

Is there a PADDLES for CODs or EAs (the other tailhooks) ???

Do those squadrons pilots participate in the LSO program?

Would there be one for the C-130s if they were to return to the flightdeck??

What other a/c (less helos) have flown in on the flight deck besides Strike and the above?

Inquiring minds want to know? :)

In some of those photos, the LSOs have VFA-101 logo on their backs, below the "LIGHTNING PADDLES", but most likely attached to VX-23 for carrier suitability trials. VFA-101 is the FRS squadron for the F-35C.

"STRIKE PADDLES" refers VX-23 as noted above.

There are several grades of LSOs, and some can only wave for their own squadron type (Squadron LSO), and more senior LSOs wave everything aboard (Wing LSO) including E-2/C-2s. Each squadron has LSOs that share LSO duties for the air wing. E-2/C-2 LSOs as Wing LSOs wave fighters as well. EA-6B detachments probably have at least one LSO with them. CAG PADDLES are the two senior LSOs in charge, and one of them must be on the flight deck for every trap.

Here is the relevant NATOPS http://info.publicintelligence.net/LSO-NATOPS-MAY09.pdf

If they reintroduced the C-130 to the carrier somehow, they would start with flight test LSOs and go from there. VX-20 flies the E-2/C-2/C-130 flight testing.

For flight tests, they clear the flight deck of other aircraft. There is only a couple of F/A-18E/Fs for certain flight deck compatibility tests and chase duties.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:48
by spazsinbad
Did someone mention COD? Here is a piece:
COD trys to swim
Uploaded on Nov 5, 2008 | pjhstinky's channel

"A C-2A Greyhound tries to go swimming of the USS Nimitz. This VRC-40 COD carrying VIP passengers during CVN-68's Around the Horn Cruise in 2001."


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 17:47
by spazsinbad
Not often will NIMITZ have such a 'clear deck' (just for the trials) and oh no another catshot:
http://us.cnn.com/2014/11/11/us/gallery ... ?hpt=hp_c3

The last photo of the four cross deck pendants (wires) with empty sheave for barricade use came via e-mail however the original is probably out there somewhere....

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 00:11
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:The last photo of the four cross deck pendants (wires) with empty sheave for barricade use came via e-mail however the original is probably out there somewhere....



Interesting. I was wondering what the 5th position was for. There are some pretty good pics online that show it working. :thumb:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 00:31
by spazsinbad
IN the 'how to deck land' PDFs or the very large 4.4GB PDF there is some good info about Barriers/Barricades - Barricades are in use today whilst barriers were those things in the straight/axial deck age - but anyway because that PDF is my 'goto' source it is very easy to reference these things. Here goes: [VIDEO DISABLED FOR THIS SITE SO CLICK THE VID TEXT URL]

ANIMATED GIF here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arresting_gear

CLICK for ANIMATION Viking S-3 Barricade: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... mation.gif

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD_mUwzpUs4


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 04:39
by sferrin
Where is this 4.4Gb PDF you speak of? :drool:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 05:10
by spazsinbad
Heheh. You'll be sorry.... Have a look at the URLs below this post. I myself have not checked them for some time but they should work to take you to Microsoft OneDrive and/or GoogleDrive to the SpazSinbad page on either where there is stuff to download. On MS OneDrve the latest file with the most up to date relevant 'how to deck land' segment is in a folder:

___RAN_FAA_A4G_4-4GB_PDF_20_Oct_2014_3_Part_ZIP (so this is a 3 part zip file - sadly MS do not allow file extensions to be seen (which is a worry to me) but you may be OK with that).

I have recently upgraded to large file capacity but NOT to single large files. One exception is there (4.4GB) and I'll leave it there but I have not been able to upload that file size again - and I should not be able because of... (one thing and another)....

In other folders/directories you will see 'HOW TO DECK LAND' PDFs which are now about one year old. That is not such a bad thing - because the method has not changed - only some information about the F-35 is missing from those PDFs; whereas the very latest 4.4GB PDF about the RAN FAA A4G and how to deck land is always as up to date as I can make it.

OK then I should just extract that info now and update or upload new files - however that takes time and - I was going to do that once the two week F-35C trials were finished; and IF some decent reports on it were made available. Perhaps that last is a fond hope but anyway....

IF the URLs below don't work then the main SpazPage OneDrive is:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd63d6 ... =822839791
&
GoogleDrive is: https://drive.google.com/?pli=1#folders ... 0szeVJFY0U

The "HOW To Deck Land" PDF file here is similarly about one year old and is only 1.8GB - my how time flies.

DO NOT ALLOW either MS OR GOOGIE to 'view' the PDFs because THEY CANNOT. Their viewers will not cope and it is a waste of time. Right click on the file to 'save as' to your computer. The 4.4GB PDF will always be able to be archived to a DVD - please view it [with Adobe Reader] when the PDF is on your hard drive.

Always use Adobe Reader suitable for your OS. For Windows the latest is version 11.0.9 and all OS versions are available here:

http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/ JUST INSTALL/download Adobe Reader - none of the other stuff is required.

There is no PDF reader like the latest Adobe Reader. I hope you'all have a good experience. Remember to use the bookmark pane to navigate the large PDF. Scrolling through will be tedious. YOU can SKIP the Nowra/A4G and other aircraft stuff easily. Most of the 'how to deck land' material is near the front of the 4.4GB PDF - look in the bookmarks.

And - these PDF page are notes (which have links to more of that same page material online). It is not a book. There is some order, however with so many pages acquired over more than a decade, things can go a bit spaz easily enough, with a lot of material internally linked for youse to jump toot sweet to more relevant material or back again. There are many ways to navigate a PDF using Adobe Reader. Have a good one. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 07:12
by spazsinbad
MCAS Yuma plays role in recent military aviation milestone
11 Nov 2014 James Gilbert

"...Capt. Staci Reidinger, deputy director of public affairs for 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said the two test aircraft were based out of the F-35 training facility at Elgin Air Force Base and that the U.S. Navy used MCAS Yuma as a departure location to conduct the landing test.

Reidinger added that Yuma offers the optimal range that fixed and rotary wing aircraft desire to train for close air support and/or surveillance ashore during operations.

Flightglobal.com reported that the two F-35C aircraft made an hour-long flight from Yuma, where they had undergone preliminary maintenance in preparation for their two-week deployment aboard the Nimitz.

Plans were to both land and then launch at least one jet later that same day by way of the ship’s steam-powered catapult system, but the launches were scrapped because of telemetry issues, according to Flightglobal.com.

Sgt. William Waterstreet of the MCAS Yuma Public Affairs Office confirmed that one of the F-35s left the air station at noon on Nov. 3, while the other left an hour later at 1 p.m.

The first F-35C flight test aircraft, CF-3, hooked the aircraft carrier’s wire at 12:58, about 46 miles southwest of San Diego. An hour later, CF-5 also performed a fly-by, a touch-and-go and finally an arrested landing.

According to the Flightglobal.com article, the arrested landings were especially remarkable because the F-35C’s tailhook required a redesign after the original was found to be inadequate to stop the jet in the short space given for carrier landings. The redesigned horse-hoof-shaped hook worked as planned...." [A-4 hook description also]

Source: http://www.yumasun.com/news/mcas-yuma-p ... 6f0fd.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2014, 08:56
by spazsinbad
A Blast from the Recent Past - guide people to this video (BaconRind Comes to mind) to show how BEFORE the NIMITZ there was SHAKE RATTLE & ROLL and STRUCTURAL SURVEY (for new aircraft) for the F-35C at NAS Patuxent River (all of which are ongoing as the need arises for various weapons and any changes). This video is from the recent HOOK14 series.

MAGIC CARPET is mentioned which is for the Super Horny Family with connections to the IDLC on the F-35C. Look for that Magic video on the same Ubend page.


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 00:25
by spazsinbad
Here is someone who wanted to tell us what a crock the F-35C is - sad:
http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com.au/2 ... h-day.html

BRIGHTEN UP with some great pics here: F-35C Sea Trials 2014 set:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 734761507/

AND... another unusual view WING FOLD: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 8734761507

LARGE PIC: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7568/155 ... 30_o_d.jpg (could not be downloaded earlier but now it can be at 3.2Mb?)

Less Large attached: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7568/155 ... 61_k_d.jpg

PROBABLY the HULA GIRL/BOY is used to gauge deck motion? :devil:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 01:19
by spazsinbad
F-35C Sea Trials 2014 SET: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 734761507/

This one from 06 Nov 2014 in largest size: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7534/157 ... 7c_o_d.jpg (3.5Mb)

Perhaps this is an 'on glideslope' indication of 'hook to ramp' clearance however we do not know this as the approach may just be a 'test' approach with different parameters used.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 05:29
by mk82
" Here is someone who wanted to tell us what a crock the F-35C is - sad:
http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com.au/2 ... h-day.html "

Poor ELP....out of airspeed....out of altitude....out of ideas :devil:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 06:46
by Jon
Ok, just to get this straight.

F-35 CF-03 was the first to make an arrested landing on November 3, 2014.
F-35 CF-05 was the first to cat launch from a carrier on November 4, 2014.

BTW, from other comments I've seen here, photos of hands off the controls for launch are likely correct, but not always an absolute proof via the photos as aircrew are required at certain points to have hands up while crew are under the aircraft. I haven't viewed the launch videos, perhaps that would be better clarification.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 06:54
by spazsinbad
If it is important I'm not sure which aircraft was the first to catapult however certainly by every account CF-03 was the first to arrest. Go here to see a catapult with the ZOOM showing clearly that during the catapult the pilot has both hands on the handles. The aircraft is moving down the cat track - the hold back fitting has broken.

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281420&hilit=DoubleDutch#p281420

Here's anotherie ZOOMED etc: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5614/157 ... 83_o_d.jpg (4.3Mb)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 771424831/ 10 Nov 2014 USS Nimitz

AND same as before over page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 8734761507
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7516/157 ... c8_o_d.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 14:05
by Jon
Hi Spazsinbad

Yeah, important so I can log the details in the history for the serial database.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 14:40
by spazsinbad
Fair enough but it is unclear. Perhaps articles later will specify.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 15:44
by blindpilot
spazsinbad wrote:Fair enough but it is unclear. Perhaps articles later will specify.


The video you posted was from Lockheed and title "First Cat" and that was definitely CF-5 ????

BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 18:45
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:... showing clearly that during the catapult the pilot has both hands on the handles. ...



WOIW! ...it is a roller coaster ride!!! :shock: :D :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 18:47
by hookswing
Update:

We now have over a 100 arrestments and Catapults as of Nov 12

0 bolters!!!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 18:54
by neptune
hookswing wrote:Update:

We now have over a 100 arrestments and Catapults as of Nov 12

0 bolters!!!



SBug Mafia is not happy! :D

ps.
How do they do "0" bolters.???
Do they need to put that hook on the SBug? :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 19:52
by spazsinbad
'BP' there are a few 'misnamed' videos having been edited incorrectly (timeline) to give a wrong impression. I'm a bit dubious about them. However personally I would like to see a press report or two from LM/USN to say who did what when. Maybe that is just me. For me the history is in the first arrest (that was a big deal in my Fleet Air Arm because it also implies the 'first catapult later' whilst wings confirmed and all that). I have seen reference to the 'OLD USN' counting catapults as 'the big deal' - rather than deck landings. Do I need an attitude adjustment? :mrgreen: I'm wondering why there has not been some PR about this 'historic' catapult. Perhaps I have missed it? I'm hoping there will be a video SLO MO of an arrest at least (catapults again less interesting) like this old one. It would have been made to check on the new strop catcher. No one ever caught me being stroppy. :mrgreen: A4Gs and S2Es are aboard HMAS Melbourne c.1971 - could be me but not likely. One of the last arrests in real time at the end (nose comes down hard) could have been me. :devil:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 20:27
by sferrin
hookswing wrote:Update:

We now have over a 100 arrestments and Catapults as of Nov 12

0 bolters!!!


But, but. . .everybody knows the F-35C can't catch a wire. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 20:30
by lamoey
neptune wrote:
hookswing wrote:Update:

We now have over a 100 arrestments and Catapults as of Nov 12

0 bolters!!!



SBug Mafia is not happy! :D

ps.
How do they do "0" bolters.???
Do they need to put that hook on the SBug? :wink:


They do have some of the best and most experienced pilots, sorry aviators, so that should make a difference. In addition they aviators have not been in the seat for hours, coming back from a mission across the seas and lands, so they are not likely to be as tired as well. Having said that, the new control laws in the flight control system to control the glide slope probably makes a lot of difference as well. Do the F-35C have auto throttle and is it engaged or even needed during carrier landing? If it does then that would also be helpful.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 20:50
by spazsinbad
I'm not sure which thread it is on now - probably the 'Lakehurst' OLD thread about these issues - and there are threads about IDLC and 'delta flight path' and videos about them both ('dfp' is analogous to the 'Magic Carpet' for the Super family).

Probably the Hook14 "Magic Carpet" video explains it all best. (Referenced on 'Lakehurst' thread)

Anyway the F-35C throttle is 'auto'. In future the 'auto' of the F-35C along with appropriate JPALS will allow complete auto landings with 'centimetric' accuracy such that individual wires can be targeted if required (because poor weather / sea state conditions require it for safe 'hook to ramp' clearance or the number of wires is temporarily reduced for whatever reason or a combination of above).

Short but different to long version below from HOOK14:




Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 22:35
by spazsinbad

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 22:50
by quicksilver
hookswing wrote:Update:

We now have over a 100 arrestments and Catapults as of Nov 12

0 bolters!!!


Not true. There was a bolter yesterday...





...from an F-18. 8)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Nov 2014, 23:30
by Raptor_claw
This will probably show up at one of the usual sources soon, but I thought I'd go ahead and share...

14P00643_09.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 00:15
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: It'll turn up - somewhere over the rainbow? BoomBoom :devil: ScareMUNGer Solo Mensch got knickers in a twist about the stealth onboard. Is that Cee heading for disaster into that rain? OMG. Don't go there.... PuhLeez. 'SWP' does sterling service in rebuttal. 8)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 00:40
by quicksilver
Clearly those guys over there have never spent much, if any, time at sea around aircraft. That jet doesn't look bad at all. In fact, it looks really good. I was trying to figure out what they were referring to. And, as many have pointed out, the cosmetics of the jet have nothing to do with the efficacy of its LO features.

Also, the IPP for the 'C' is on top of the fuselage, inboard of the left vertical stabilizer. The intake on top of the right intake is for the fuel/air heat exchanger.

100+ traps...no bolters. There's alotta Holy -----in' going on around Naval Aviation right now.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 00:47
by spazsinbad
Looks as though this photo set will be updated daily for the duration. Rainbow pic and the other 'stealth degraded Solomon choice' pic [ https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 8734761507 ] there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 734761507/

'QS' any chance you can tell us the BuNos. of CF-03 and CF-05 please? Tah. Meanwhile IPP address ZOOMED:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8682/151 ... 1392_o.jpg (5Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 01:25
by spazsinbad
:devil: Should this be the 'wire monster' (ala cookie monster?). Or just the 'cross deck pedant (yep) muncher'. :mrgreen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 774863542/

BIG ONE (4Mb): https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5616/157 ... 6d_o_d.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 04:11
by spazsinbad
U.S. Navy F-35 jet makes first night flight as sea tests near end
13 Nov 2014 Andrea Shalal

"ABOARD THE USS NIMITZ, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy version of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter jet made its first night flight off an aircraft carrier on Thursday as it neared the end of two weeks of sea-based testing aboard the USS Nimitz, Navy and Pentagon officials said.

Two F-35 C-model jets on board the carrier have already met 95 percent of the requirements for the first of three rounds of sea-based tests, proving to be more reliable and performing better than expected, Navy test pilots told reporters.

By midday Thursday, the jets had carried out over 101 catapult launches from the carrier, 214 planned "touch and go" landings, and 104 arrested landings using a redesigned tailhook, according to the F-35 program office....

...Commander Tony Wilson, one of four test pilots carrying out the flights and maneuvers, said there had been only one "bolter" [at night] so far, a term for a jet that fails to catch the heavy duty cables used for arrested landings, forcing it to circle around again.

"We're conducting the Super Bowl of flight test," he said, adding that no major issues had emerged during 11 test days. "Everything that we're learning is extremely minor."

Navy officials said the testing was ahead of schedule and could wrap up before the planned finish date of Monday."

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102184693

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 04:39
by spazsinbad
Not only but also daytime....
Navy flying: No more tricky landings?
13 Nov 2014 Jeanette Steele

"...Of 102 tail hook landings through Wednesday, the majority had hit the third of four wires stretched across the Nimitz flight deck, according to several Navy representatives. Known in Navy flying circles as the “three wire,” it is considered the bulls-eye for carrier pilots. “We are beating up the three wire,” Wilson told reporters.

None of the landings has used the first wire, which would mean the pilot tried to land too close to the beginning of the flight deck, officials said. They wouldn't disclose raw data on the landings, saying that a full report is forthcoming.

There was one “bolter” – a term for when a pilot hits the deck in the wrong place and has to slam on the gas to quickly takeoff again. The plane didn't have its tailhook extended, so the pilot hadn't intended to land, but he still struck the deck far long of a landing position, according to people familiar with the incident. Officials attributed that one to high winds across the deck at 40 knots and deck officers still learning how to work with the F-35...."

Source: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov ... z-results/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 04:55
by spazsinbad
First Arrestor for the record: http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/ ... b9b1684c1a
"...Cmdr. Tony “Brick” Wilson, who made the historic first landing Nov. 3. [2014]..."

Source: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov ... all/?print


Another good photo gallery here (compare finish of CF-05 to CF-03 f'rinstance):

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov ... -results/#

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 05:31
by Jon
spazsinbad wrote:'QS' any chance you can tell us the BuNos. of CF-03 and CF-05 please?


BuNos were never assigned. I don't like that but that's the way it is for the Low Rate Initial Production aircraft. First BuNo was CF-06 which has BuNo 168733. I've connected with two different F-35 production managers and confirmed this was the case.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 06:27
by spazsinbad
'Jon' OK - thanks a lot for that info. Much appreciated - tah. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 09:50
by quicksilver

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 09:53
by quicksilver
Jon wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:'QS' any chance you can tell us the BuNos. of CF-03 and CF-05 please?


BuNos were never assigned. I don't like that but that's the way it is for the Low Rate Initial Production aircraft. First BuNo was CF-06 which has BuNo 168733. I've connected with two different F-35 production managers and confirmed this was the case.


Perhaps they meant SDD jets because its not an LRIP practice.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 18:49
by spazsinbad
OK got the correction about SDD (not LRIP) but the missing BuNos remain. Real stealth. Meanwhile we await some nitefloggin' reports eh (also same URL mentioned overpage) but anyways....
Navy's F-35C Takes Historic Step Forward Following Budgetary Turmoil
14 Nov 2014 Kris Osborn

"..."Our job is to identify the issues and report on them. All the issues that we have been finding are very minor," said Navy Cmdr. Tony Wilson, an F-35C test pilot. "The main focus of the test has been catapult shots and landings. We did do shore-based testing to make sure we were ready to come out here. However, the big difference is you can't simulate rolling off the edge of an aircraft carrier when you are shore based."...

...A second round of developmental testing is slated for next summer to study the aircraft's ability to operate on a carrier while carrying weapons internally, Wilson said. A third period of testing with external weapons on board is also slated, all designed to bring the aircraft to operational status by 2018, Navy officials said.

"In this main round of testing, we're looking at the basic aircraft. We're looking at the approach and handling qualities. We're looking at high headwinds, low headwinds, crosswinds and a bunch of different wind variations as well," said Chris Karapostoles, an F-35C test pilot....

...Landing a Stealth Fighter at Sea
As part of the testing, pilots practice maintaining their glide slope by watching a yellow light on the flight deck called the Fresnel Lens. It includes a vertical row of yellow lights between two horizontal rows of green lights. Using a series of lights and mirrors, a pilot's approach is reflected by the position of the yellow light in relation to the green lights above and below, displaying whether the aircraft is on the right "center line" or "glide slope," Karapostoles said.

"If he [the pilot] is on glide slope, he will see a centered amber ball in between the horizontal green lights. If he goes high on glide slope, he will see the ball rise above the green lights. If he goes below glide slope, he will see the ball fall below the green lights," he explained.

The F-35C is also engineered with a technology referred to as Delta Flight Path, a system that uses software to help the flight control computer automatically correct course and adjust the aircraft's flight path as needed.

"Instead of manually controlling thrust and pitch attitude, our flight control engineers have cut out the middle work so the flight path is controlled directly. It gives us spare capacity to monitor the other systems on the jet. We are landing the jet almost exactly where we want almost every time," said Cmdr. Christian Sewell, a F-35C test pilot.

Pilots try to land the F-35C in between the second and third of four cables arranged on the landing deck, Sewell explained.

In order to properly align for an approach to the flight deck about three-quarters of a mile away, pilots make a sharp, descending 180-degree turn to slow the aircraft and begin descending from about 600 feet, Wilson said.

"Once we arrive on center line and on glide slope, that is where the precision comes in because your runway is essentially moving sideways on you," [from left to right - hence the 'nibbles' to the right to remain on centreline] he explained.

The testing is also assessing how the F-35C catapults off the deck. The steam catapult on board the Nimitz is thrusting the aircraft off the deck at a range of speeds in order to test the slowest and fastest potential takeoff speeds, said Lt. Eric Ryziu, catapult arresting gear officer.

Aircraft are able to reach speeds up to 160 knots in about 2.5 seconds as a result of being thrust forward by the steam catapult, which stretches about 300 feet. The steam catapult generates 520 PSI (pounds per square inch) of pressure pushing pistons forward. The pistons push cylinders connected to a shuttle attached to a launch bar, which pulls the aircraft forward, Ryziu explained."

Source: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... rmoil.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 18:59
by spazsinbad
F-35C exceeds 100 catapults, arrestments during first week at sea
13 Nov 2014 Marina Malenic, USS Nimitz - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

"...Further, the F-35C has conducted its first night-flight, the Pentagon announced. "Lieutenant Commander Ted Dyckman piloted test aircraft CF-03 for the inaugural night-flight of the F-35C on 13 November," said F-35 programme office spokesman Joe Dellavedova...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/45765/f-35 ... eek-at-sea

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 22:36
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:First Arrestor for the record: http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/ ... b9b1684c1a
"...Cmdr. Tony “Brick” Wilson, who made the historic first landing Nov. 3. [2014]..."

Source: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov ... all/?print


Another good photo gallery here (compare finish of CF-05 to CF-03 f'rinstance):

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov ... -results/#


Someone oughta remind Einstein that it aint a bolter if there is no intent to land, particularly when the land-long was LSO-induced.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2014, 23:15
by spazsinbad
Funny how the brain misses misspellins' and suchlike. I completely missed this 'deck officers' for LSOs in that report over page 'still learning how to work with the F-35' viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281558&hilit=officers#p281558

:mrgreen: NOT OFTEN LSOs get BLAMED for ANYTHING - except when they say so themselves. :devil: Cartoon to follow.... :drool: AND what a GROTTY LOT of HALLOWeenie LSOs! :doh:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 00:32
by spazsinbad
How a NavalGazingSpokesPerson kept MUM on the LSOdeckOccifers.....
Amid a Year of Challenges, F-35C Sea Trials Progressing Well
14 Nov 2014 Valerie Insinna

"...During a media day aboard the Nimitz on Nov. 13, CF-05 test aircraft took off, flew in pattern around the carrier, and performed an arrested landing. Its tail hook caught the third wire on the ship, which the Navy considers optimal for safety.

Those third-wire engagements have been the norm during tests, Wilson said. So far there has been only one bolter — when a pilot touches down too late and fails to catch onto a wire. The pilot executed a planned touch-and-go, but touched down after the fourth and final wire, technically qualifying it as a bolter.

Navy officials could not comment on whether that was the result of pilot error or an issue with the F-35’s new “delta flight path” technology, which helps automate landing on the carrier.

Wilson said delta flight path had performed well in testing and would help to unburden pilots during normal operations, likening it to having cruise control in a car.

"This flight control scheme is revolutionary and is going to pay huge dividends for the Navy,” he said. “It's going to make landing on the boat a routine task, and right now landing on the boat is anything but a routine task. That's why the Navy invests so much money into training its pilots and continually training them.”

Another positive finding was the performance of the F-35C’s new tail hook. During the original hook’s initial tests at Naval Air Engineering Station Lakehurst in New Jersey, service officials found the hook did not engage with the cable, said Thomas Briggs, head of the air vehicle engineering department at Patuxent River.

Lockheed Martin then redesigned the tail hook with the input of Atlantic Test Range personnel [Anyone? Buehler?], he said.

It passed structural demonstrations earlier this year at Patuxent River, but critics like Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon’s director of test and evaluation, cautioned that the increased weight and sharpness of the new equipment could cause damage to the flight deck.

However, the gear has been catching the wires on the carrier deck without gouging or otherwise damaging the surface, Wilson said.

The F-35 is planned to return to the carrier for sea trials in summer 2015, when testers will gather data about how it performs with munitions inside its internal bomb bays, Briggs said. In the third set of trials, external payloads on its wings will be added.

Because most of the mission systems testing apply to all variants, they can be tested ashore, Kern said. Once they mature through testing at Patuxent River and Edwards Air Force Base, “we’ll bring that capability out to the ship and then look at specific issues involving ship integration out here.”

“What we have been looking at here is some of the electromagnetic effects to see if there is any interference issues between the ship’s equipment and the aircraft’s equipment,” he said. “We haven’t found any” during this round of sea trials, he added."

Source: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... a2&ID=1667

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 01:18
by quicksilver
They cant have it both ways. If the touchdown point on planned T&Gs is part of the count against bolter/no-bolter, then they've had one bolter in 315+ passes...one. Can you say, "most successful initial sea trials ever"?

35 years ago, F/A-18A initial sea trials took one jet to the ship for 3 days. I think it turned into 5 because of problems of one kind or another. I'll have to look up SH which occurred in 1997 IIRC.

I look forward to the stats upon completion.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 01:30
by spazsinbad
Yes it is a puzzlement - but only for the PRESS - looking for that ANGLE - hook fails and all that. And let us all hope we get to see the stats - even if they will be wilfully misinterpreted by many. We are here - never fear. :mrgreen:
"...touched down after the fourth and final wire, technically qualifying it as a bolter...."

For TEST PURPOSES it seems reasonable to call it a bolter - for the purpose of doing as many approaches HOOK UP to simulate a REAL hook down approach etc. But not my call.

I had few bolters and do not recall having any with hook up touch and goes. Apart from initial qualifying we had to often get back into gear after a long transit (over that VAST PACIFIC) usually going NORTH - to RIMPAC for example - not wanting to be LATE; then there would be little open ocean (blue water) flying during these long transits, so getting catted and arrested to be requalled was fairly commonplace, with the usual initial hook up approach. On the small deck of HMAS Melbourne a touch down LONG could be a worry indeed. For example the TA4G was never used on our deck because there was insufficient deck length to get the nose up again - particularly for night flying (and boltering one can surmise).

OFTEN a bolter was caused by the hook skipping - especially over No. Four (target wire) to then hit the aft lip of the aft lift (at the end of the landing area) to cause the hook to skip over the last No.5 wire and ON to the BOLTER BOLTER BOLTER (bugga). Or that was our story to the others. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 03:05
by spazsinbad
On page 9 of this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281500&hilit=indication#p281500

There is an indication of the healthy 'hook to ramp' clearance available to the F-35C when on glideslope. With that in mind I thought this BreakaDaFence photo was good value from: http://breakingdefense.sites.breakingme ... 24x567.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 04:05
by spazsinbad
F-35C Completes First Night Flight Aboard Aircraft Carrier
14 Nov 2014 Commander Naval Air Forces, Public Affairs

"SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- The F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter conducted its first carrier-based night flight operations aboard an aircraft carrier off the coast of San Diego Nov. 13.

Navy test pilot Lt. Cmdr. Ted "Dutch" Dyckman piloted F-35C test aircraft CF-03 for the inaugural night flight, taking off from USS Nimitz (CVN 68). At 6:01 p.m. Dyckman conducted a series of planned touch and goes before making an arrested landing at 6:40 pm....

...Through Nov. 13, two test F-35C aircraft have completed 28 flights for a combined 34.5 flight hours and accomplished more than 75 percent of threshold test requirements. The aircraft also performed 108 catapult launches, 215 planned touch-and-go landings, two long touch and go landings, 110 arrested landings and zero bolters....

...The F-35C has proven its ability to operate in the carrier environment and has consistently caught the optimal three-wire during arrested landings. The test team successfully landed during every attempt, with zero hook-down bolters, or failures to catch an arresting cable on the flight deck...."

Photo Caption: "141113-O-ZZ999-001 PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 13, 2014) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter conducts its first carrier-based night flight operations aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68). The aircraft launched at 6:01 p.m. (PST) and conducted a series of planned touch-and-go landings before making an arrested landing at 6:40 pm. Nimitz is hosting the F-35 Lightning II Pax River Integrated Test Force from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 during the initial sea trials of the F-35C.(U.S. Navy photo courtesy of Lockheed Martin by Andy Wolfe/Released) http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 99-001.JPG 4Mb


Source: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84456

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 10:24
by spazsinbad
AvWeak 17 Nov 2014 edition has a two page spread about these tests. WOW. Some quotes below....
Feet Wet
17 Nov 2014 Amy Butler Fort Worth and Guy Norris aboard the USS Nimitz

"....The apparent success of these carrier trials will also likely bring more visible support from the Navy, which
has historically been conservative in planning for the F-35 purchases while continuing to advocate for more buys of Boeing F/A-18E/Fs....

...Unlike conventional carrier aircraft, in which the pilot approaches the carrier with flaps set at a fixed position and adjusts power and pitch attitude to stay on the glideslope, the F-35 system controls power through an "auto-thrust" function and alters the position of the trailing edge flap in response to pilot inputs. "So the stick becomes my glideslope controller" says Dyckman, the second F-35C test pilot to make a carrier landing. "If I pull back, the flap adds lift; if I push forward, it commands a steeper approach." The nominal flap position for a carrier approach is 15 deg., or half-flap, providing ample margin for additional flap movement to add or reduce lift. Wilson says the effect is to "change the 'heave' of the aircraft, rather than the pitch."... [then the B/S CHIEF quote about seeing 'all green' from the AoA nosewheel indicator]

...This flight control system mode, called Delta Path, is unique to the F-35 though it is nearly identical in functionality to the Magic Carpet system recently flight tested by F/A-18E/F pilots, says Eric Van Camp, director of domestic F-35 business development for Lockheed Martin. "The way we used to do it was this choreography between your right and left hand. Delta Path and Magic Carpet eliminate that." Magic Carpet is due to be tested at sea on the Super Hornet in early 2015....

...The Navy objective is to declare initial operational capability (IOC) with a squadron of 10 aircraft in August 2018
or no later than February 2019...."

Source: Aviation Week and Space Technology 17 November 2014

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 11:46
by lookieloo
spazsinbad wrote:AvWeak 17 Nov 2014 edition has a two page spread about these tests. WOW. Some quotes below....
Feet Wet
17 Nov 2014 Amy Butler Fort Worth and Guy Norris aboard the USS Nimitz...
Somewhat incongruous with Sweetman's recent howling for the C's cancellation. One wonders what the dynamic over at AVweek is like. Is Bill pulling all the strings for his own purposes, or does the rest of the staff think he's a complete moron? I find it difficult to fathom how his colleagues could possibly take him seriously anymore, unless they actually agree with him and are merely humoring their industry sponsors with faint praise.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 12:00
by spazsinbad
I think this phrase says it all with 'apparent' & 'visible' being completely unnecessary and I'm thankful no 'FINALLY' was used. :devil:
"...The apparent success of these carrier trials will also likely bring more visible support from the Navy..."

The success is readily seen whilst the USN support has been there but not reported. View the 2013 or 2014 TAILHOOK videos for example where Admirable BUSS waxes lyrical and has done so in the press release on the day of the first arrest aboard NIMITZ. Talk about selective reporting to an agenda. And again I'm grateful for no "FINALLY". :doh:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 13:25
by spazsinbad
THE HOOKIE MONSTER....
"A close-up of the open bay containing the modified tail hook. Credit: Guy Norris/AW&ST"

Source: http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... Nike15.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 16:49
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:I think this phrase says it all with 'apparent' & 'visible' being completely unnecessary and I'm thankful no 'FINALLY' was used. :devil:
"...The apparent success of these carrier trials will also likely bring more visible support from the Navy..."

The success is readily seen whilst the USN support has been there but not reported. View the 2013 or 2014 TAILHOOK videos for example where Admirable BUSS waxes lyrical and has done so in the press release on the day of the first arrest aboard NIMITZ. Talk about selective reporting to an agenda. And again I'm grateful for no "FINALLY". :doh:


It's real simple Spaz, when they stop moving aircraft (F-35s) out of their budget people will stop needling them about support for the program. There are clearly supporters (VADM Buss comes to mind) but there are also many, many detractors -- some of whom reside in high places in that service.

"Change" is very hard; it's even harder in US Naval Aviation where TACAIR has become (as I heard someone recently say) 'homogenized.' Group (aircraft community) identities and loyalties are very powerful drivers of conformity -- in values, attitudes, beliefs and resulting behaviors -- and are reinforced by modern social media. Navy TACAIR may be E/F/G but it's really Hornets, Hornets, and Hornets. Woe be unto the man or woman who demonstrates or expresses non-conforming behavior by questioning the status quo.

The Navy went through this same stuff when the A/B Hornet first showed up. And like it was 30-35 years ago, change has now been thrust upon the them by the emerging success of program. NAVAIR hasn't missed crossing one 't' or dotting one 'i' this time and no one will be able to claim there were shortcuts taken -- by anyone. And the success of the aircraft at the ship has now eliminated another "yeah, but..." that detractors can use to fuel opposition by insinuation.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 19:53
by spazsinbad
Not being from the USN I can see the point, however the F-35 detractors are gutless if they do not say stuff in public and only whine to reporters and each other. Sad indeed.

I saw a similar but DIFFERENT transition from the RN FAA way of doing things to the USN way back in 1969 at NAS Nowra for the first few years of the change from the Sea Venom era (by then very defunct) to the A4G NATOPS times. For me it was great. The arguments were tectonic plate shifting, especially the ongoing (to their great credit) USN / NATOPS safety culture - let us talk about it and learn from it - rather than the previous Brit stiff upper lip say nothing and get on with it (with little standardisation). Bear in mind the Venom pilots had no LSO supervision - there were none. Good times; while the NATOPS and USN Safety Magazines APPROACH and the Grampaw Pettibone in Naval Aviation News were, and still are, outstanding for getting the message out.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 20:02
by spazsinbad
We can see the variable burner kick in. On Low Burner at start and by the time just off the bow the full burner is kickin' in! I'll put a clip here. WHAT is going on at the JBD? Is that a fuel fire left behind? Pathetic MAC abusers have complained about .WMV format so I'll put back the .MP4 format also but why won't it run? A rhetorical question indeed. :devil:
F-35C Lightning II Conducts First Night Flight Ops During Developmental Testing aboard USS Nimitz
Published on Nov 14, 2014 | U.S. Navy

"PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 13, 2014) F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighters conduct night flight deck operations aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) off the coast of San Diego. These milestones are part of initial at-sea Developmental Testing I (DT-I) for the F-35C, which commenced Nov. 3 and is expected to last two weeks. The F-35C is the carrier variant (CV) of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter designed for the U.S. Navy as a first-day-of-war, survivable strike fighter complement to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. (U.S. Navy video/Released)"


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 20:16
by XanderCrews
lookieloo wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:AvWeak 17 Nov 2014 edition has a two page spread about these tests. WOW. Some quotes below....
Feet Wet
17 Nov 2014 Amy Butler Fort Worth and Guy Norris aboard the USS Nimitz...
Somewhat incongruous with Sweetman's recent howling for the C's cancellation. One wonders what the dynamic over at AVweek is like. Is Bill pulling all the strings for his own purposes, or does the rest of the staff think he's a complete moron? I find it difficult to fathom how his colleagues could possibly take him seriously anymore, unless they actually agree with him and are merely humoring their industry sponsors with faint praise.


I wonder that too, I thought it was funny when he insulted Colin Clark and basically called him a shill and Amy butler in the comments apologized I commented about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26286&hilit=sweetman&start=15


F-35 is going to continue to be a story to cover but for positive reasons, Avweek doesn't want to be cut out of the loop for its first RED FLAG I assume. The other thing is, I don't think Bill is ever going to let this one go. He seems to have magically changed his tune on the Super Hornet, but his bitterness I don't think is going to go away. And IMHO he is becoming an albatross. If I was wrong about the biggest program in my career field, I would be fired but thats just me. he got the JSF wrong. He will try and slice that into a million different excuses as to why that isn't true, before correcting your grammer, but bottom line he was wrong.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 21:22
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: Well Well Well... 'Allo 'Allo 'Allo... What do we have here? :devil: GoshDarn and Goldarnit. Thanks a mill! :mrgreen:
U.S. Navy ‘Non-Receptive’ to the F-35?
14 Nov 2014 SMSgt Mac

"Where did the idea that the “Navy” has been less than enthusiastic about the F-35C come from? I think I know, and can trace it back two or so years to a single statement made by the incoming CNO in an article for the USNI ‘Proceedings’. That single article gave such hope to the anti-JSF crowd that it gained far more audience and credence that it would have ever otherwise received, certainly more than it ever deserved.

Today, with the successful-to-date F-35 sea trials of the CF-3 and CF-5 aircraft operating off the USS Nimitz these past two weeks, the story has become one of a ‘surprising’ reversal of opinion (or beginnings thereof) by the Navy—at least as far as the media would lead us to believe....

...Strip away the journalistic overlay of 'what it all means' and there's no 'there' there. So much for the Navy being ‘cool’ towards the F-35C.

Now if you want to talk about the F-18E/F/G ‘community’ (read ‘tribe’) being cool towards the F-35, well………..DUH!

Just wait until the F-35 starts smacking the F-18 tribe around in training. It will be worse.

That’s called ‘Tradition’."

Source: http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/ ... -f-35.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 22:31
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: Ol' Sparky the HOOKie Muncher.... under arrest.... at night.... for spilling sometink at the JBD? :devil:
&
Best photo yet of the 'on speed' at Optimum Angle of Attack attitude a millisecond after touchdown during arrest:

LARGE pic: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 0/sizes/o/ (3Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 23:02
by spazsinbad
Spot the diff? CF-05 left with CF-03 right: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... maaqij.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2014, 23:19
by spazsinbad
I guess this is a question only 'quicksilver' can point to at the moment but (youse can search the internet for these words / phrases) this is the first I have heard and regard it as fanciful. Yes the glideslope is adjusted for each aircraft type however the parameters for same are appropriate for that aircraft in the conditions at the time. All this is under test of course over the weeks and next two test periods.
"...part of the reason for the Tail Hook 'solution' was the adoption of a non-standard glideslope approach which is steeper and more precise, indicating that the pendant capture zone is very tight on the resculpted hook...."

AND... just for the heck of it from the very big pic here:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/156 ... 82d9_o.jpg (3.4Mb)
&
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7573/155 ... f232_o.jpg (3.4Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 08:03
by spazsinbad
And... a late LSO Halloweenie Song Segment....


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 14:33
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:I guess this is a question only 'quicksilver' can point to at the moment but (youse can search the internet for these words / phrases) this is the first I have heard and regard it as fanciful. Yes the glideslope is adjusted for each aircraft type however the parameters for same are appropriate for that aircraft in the conditions at the time. All this is under test of course over the weeks and next two test periods.
"...part of the reason for the Tail Hook 'solution' was the adoption of a non-standard glideslope approach which is steeper and more precise, indicating that the pendant capture zone is very tight on the resculpted hook...."

AND... just for the heck of it from the very big pic here:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/156 ... 82d9_o.jpg (3.4Mb)
&
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7573/155 ... f232_o.jpg (3.4Mb)


Am sure you remember from your own experience that the error sensitivities for weapons delivery parameters decrease as one goes from lower dive angles to higher dive angles. Similarly, all other thingss held constant, error sensitivities about a targeted touchdown point will decrease as the glideslope is increased. Along with a slower relative speed and exceptional handling qualities, this is part of the RVL/SRVL idea -- a higher probability that one will touch down within a prescribed CEP about the intended point of landing.

For glideslope excursions about the norm, CV jets will be far more constrained due to approach speed limits, AOA limits, visibility over the nose, hook geometry relative to the gear at wire engagement and subsequent touchdown, and loads at touchdown.

With the resounding success of DT-1 for F-35, there will be some whispered quibbling from around the landscape about what it took to do it, replete with insinuations of all kinds of shortcuts and compromises. Some will do so because they can't admit they were wrong; some because they a have a commercial interest in doing so. Others will be from the group resistant to change, and others still will simply persist in being aggressively ignorant. All the quibblers and insinuators will be wrong.

With 300+ passes on the ball, you can bet they examined some variations about the norm -- in a deliberate, planned and measured way for the purpose of accumulating data for further analysis. I do not know what those excursions have been.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 14:38
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:Spot the diff? CF-05 left with CF-03 right: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... maaqij.jpg



Same jet can look different based on sun angles, engine running/shutdown, time since start-up/shutdown, fuel state...lotsa stuff. Not unique to F-35.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 14:41
by quicksilver
Pretty large hunk o' orange test wire on that hook.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 15:23
by mk82
spazsinbad wrote:We can see the variable burner kick in. On Low Burner at start and by the time just off the bow the full burner is kickin' in! I'll put a clip here. WHAT is going on at the JBD? Is that a fuel fire left behind? Pathetic MAC abusers have complained about .WMV format so I'll put back the .MP4 format also but why won't it run? A rhetorical question indeed. :devil:
F-35C Lightning II Conducts First Night Flight Ops During Developmental Testing aboard USS Nimitz
Published on Nov 14, 2014 | U.S. Navy

"PACIFIC OCEAN (Nov. 13, 2014) F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighters conduct night flight deck operations aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) off the coast of San Diego. These milestones are part of initial at-sea Developmental Testing I (DT-I) for the F-35C, which commenced Nov. 3 and is expected to last two weeks. The F-35C is the carrier variant (CV) of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter designed for the U.S. Navy as a first-day-of-war, survivable strike fighter complement to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. (U.S. Navy video/Released)"



That is awesome sight! Sweetie pie can go suck a hook!!!

"I wonder that too, I thought it was funny when he insulted Colin Clark and basically called him a shill and Amy butler in the comments apologized I commented about it here"

How hypocritical for Sweetster to insult poor Colin when he is an obvious shill for SAAB....

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 15:43
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: Well Well Well... 'Allo 'Allo 'Allo... What do we have here? :devil: GoshDarn and Goldarnit. Thanks a mill! :mrgreen:
U.S. Navy ‘Non-Receptive’ to the F-35?
14 Nov 2014 SMSgt Mac

"Where did the idea that the “Navy” has been less than enthusiastic about the F-35C come from? I think I know, and can trace it back two or so years to a single statement made by the incoming CNO in an article for the USNI ‘Proceedings’. That single article gave such hope to the anti-JSF crowd that it gained far more audience and credence that it would have ever otherwise received, certainly more than it ever deserved.

Today, with the successful-to-date F-35 sea trials of the CF-3 and CF-5 aircraft operating off the USS Nimitz these past two weeks, the story has become one of a ‘surprising’ reversal of opinion (or beginnings thereof) by the Navy—at least as far as the media would lead us to believe....

...Strip away the journalistic overlay of 'what it all means' and there's no 'there' there. So much for the Navy being ‘cool’ towards the F-35C.

Now if you want to talk about the F-18E/F/G ‘community’ (read ‘tribe’) being cool towards the F-35, well………..DUH!

Just wait until the F-35 starts smacking the F-18 tribe around in training. It will be worse.

That’s called ‘Tradition’."

Source: http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/ ... -f-35.html


The Navy has taken 40ish F-35Cs OUT of their POM over the last three years. When they put some back in, that will demonstrate support.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 17:39
by quicksilver
quicksilver wrote:
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: Well Well Well... 'Allo 'Allo 'Allo... What do we have here? :devil: GoshDarn and Goldarnit. Thanks a mill! :mrgreen:
U.S. Navy ‘Non-Receptive’ to the F-35?
14 Nov 2014 SMSgt Mac

"Where did the idea that the “Navy” has been less than enthusiastic about the F-35C come from? I think I know, and can trace it back two or so years to a single statement made by the incoming CNO in an article for the USNI ‘Proceedings’. That single article gave such hope to the anti-JSF crowd that it gained far more audience and credence that it would have ever otherwise received, certainly more than it ever deserved.

Today, with the successful-to-date F-35 sea trials of the CF-3 and CF-5 aircraft operating off the USS Nimitz these past two weeks, the story has become one of a ‘surprising’ reversal of opinion (or beginnings thereof) by the Navy—at least as far as the media would lead us to believe....

...Strip away the journalistic overlay of 'what it all means' and there's no 'there' there. So much for the Navy being ‘cool’ towards the F-35C.

Now if you want to talk about the F-18E/F/G ‘community’ (read ‘tribe’) being cool towards the F-35, well………..DUH!

Just wait until the F-35 starts smacking the F-18 tribe around in training. It will be worse.

That’s called ‘Tradition’."

Source: http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/ ... -f-35.html


The Navy has taken 40ish F-35Cs OUT of their POM over the last three years. When they put some back in, that will demonstrate support.


And what some fail to understand is that the constructive friction that used to exist in the Navy between "tribes" no longer exists. And those tribal loyalties and outlook are often little diminished when JOs grow up to be in a position to influence the shape of things to come.

Like the dude in the movie said, "...show me the money."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 17:45
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'QS' my 'how to deck land' PDFs and the main 4.4GB one have an huge amount of info about glideslope and WOD effects to same and all kinds of explanations. I could have been more specific in asking if there was anything specific to the F-35 about which you may be aware. For sure testing will encompass a lot of different criteria (safely) to gauge the 'launch recovery bulletin' or whatever it is called. Always good to have other explanations though especially with reference to the naysayers. I have not seen any reference to Ski Jumping or SRVL for a long time - I guess it has all gone to the back burner.

Any ideas about what has caught fire on the deck in front of the JBD in that first night catapult video?

And I can understand the point about 'how many and when bought' is relevant - as an influence - BUT not to show support for/against the F-35C. From my outside view it looks like the budget/sequestration constraints and a relaxed attitude to having an IOC in the far future (compared to the others) is the main driver to 'not buying so many early F-35Cs'. Same comments can be made for countries not buying early aircraft but waiting to buy later made aircraft. The quote from the admiral earlier as I indicated says it all for me. And tunes will change - as they do - when more experience gained by more nasal users.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 18:07
by cantaz
Is that a fire or just the deck lights reflecting off swirling steam?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 18:28
by spazsinbad
'cantaz' I take your point however look at the last couple of milliseconds of the video. I'll see if a screenshot makes things clearer then. AND I'll guess if it really was a fire we would have heard more about it by now? Also I wonder if other aircraft night catshots shown from that camera position show the 'deck lights'? Perhaps they have been installed new or for the test or...? Many questions I know. A fast/slomo video of the cat/arrest will be posted soon on Ubend.

Why does only one? chap rush over there? None of the others are fooled? A puzzlement wrapped in my ignorance. :mrgreen:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 18:48
by quicksilver
cantaz wrote:Is that a fire or just the deck lights reflecting off swirling steam?


The latter.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 18:53
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: OK - I'll go with that - youse know I want to.... :devil: Anyone know purpose of the lights there?

Are these lights there for the connection to the shuttle? They are not seen until the aircraft has moved forward a tad.

The single chap running over goes to pickup what is left of the aft end of the holdback fitting?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 19:19
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: OK - I'll go with that - youse know I want to.... :devil: Anyone know purpose of the lights there?

Are these lights there for the connection to the shuttle? They are not seen until the aircraft has moved forward a tad.

The single chap running over goes to pickup what is left of the aft end of the holdback fitting?


You dont see them because the aft fuselage/tailbooms are obscuring them.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 21:52
by quicksilver
If you go to the :31 second mark in the original posting of the night video (NVG lens) you can see the lights on the tram.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 22:38
by spazsinbad
Again thanks 'QS'. I'll post a video clip Utubby - ordinary then one eight slow motion - now....


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2014, 23:07
by sferrin
I'm waiting for the basement crowd to crow about how the F-35C is igniting the blast deflectors. :lol:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 00:24
by cantaz
spazsinbad wrote:Anyone know purpose of the lights there?


Looks like lighting to facilitate positioning the aircraft and rigging the catapult.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 00:31
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'cantaz' - we [me? I'm there - no longer confused] :mrgreen: have been getting there... and for 'sferrin' : here is one example of the funnies:
"I like the way they lose interest in the burning on the deck. Maybe that's why we don't build ships out of wood anymore!"
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation ... ost8744035

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 16:47
by neptune
A nice recap for the DT-1;

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35_news ... em_id=1369

A US Navy pilot in a F-35C Lightning II carrier variant carries out the first carrier-based night flight aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN-68) on 13 November 2013. The aircraft launched at 6:01 p.m. (PST) and conducted a series of planned touch-and-go landings before making an arrested landing at 6:40 pm.

The crew of the Nimitz hosted the F-35 Lightning II Pax River Integrated Test Force from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 (VX-23) during the initial sea trials of the F-35C, which wrapped up on 14 November. The trials ended with pilots in F35C test aircraft CF-3 and CF-5 performing 124 arrested landings; 222 touch-and-goes; two bolters, both intentional for test purposes (intentional bolter....does that negate the operational? bolters and thus a "Perfect" arresting record??????); and 123 catapult launches.

Enjoy! :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 17:38
by SpudmanWP
Wait, what????

123 Cats and 124 Traps????

Is there still a plane on board?

---Edit---
There was a typo, it was 124 for both Cats & Traps.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 19:57
by spazsinbad
STATS are wunnerful fings.... Meanwhile here is another two handed catapult shot from: [Greenshirt has a great job - perhaps we will see some photos from this position?]
CAPTION: "F-35C CF-3 is catapult launched from the deck of the USS Nimitz during the second day of operations in the Pacific Ocean. Photo by MC2 Antonio P. Turretto Ramos

Source: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_5479.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 20:08
by SpudmanWP
SpudmanWP wrote:123 Cats and 124 Traps????


I got a response from Code One Magazine

Nope, both aircraft were flown off the Nimitz. It was just a typo--thanks for the head's up.


The correct number for both Cats and Traps was 124.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 20:13
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: TAH :mrgreen: Mr Fumble Fingas at Code One did not have a good day - eh. :mrgreen: TWO major typos? :doh:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 20:51
by SpudmanWP
I'll give them props for a quick fix.

btw, The average per-plane ops was 5 Cats & Traps, 10 Touch-n-Gos, and 1.75hrs in the air for each day on the boat.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 21:03
by spazsinbad
Heheh. First rool of fight club - I mean online publishing - proof read/double check. Guess what the rools are subsequently? [Hint - the same.] :devil: Some more stats....
F-35 Completes First Round Of Tests On U.S. Navy Ship
17 Nov 2014 (Reporting by Andrea Shalal; editing by Gunna Dickson)

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy version of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter jet met 100 percent of the threshold requirements set for a first round of sea-based testing aboard the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier, Navy and Pentagon officials said on Monday.

The carrier variant of the new warplane completed 124 catapult takeoffs, 124 arrested landings, and 222 planned "touch and go" landings off the coast of San Diego, California, according to data compiled by Navy testers.

Two landings were "bolters," when a jet fails to catch the heavy duty cables used for arrested landings, forcing it to circle around again. But those events were planned for testing purposes, officials said.

Altogether, two F-35 jets used for the tests completed 32 flights and achieved 458 unique test points, according to the Navy data...."

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-f-35-c ... ip-2014-11

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 22:18
by popcorn
SpudmanWP wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:123 Cats and 124 Traps????


I got a response from Code One Magazine

Nope, both aircraft were flown off the Nimitz. It was just a typo--thanks for the head's up.


The correct number for both Cats and Traps was 124.

Can you possibly have them confirm which aircraft/pilot is credited withthe first cat? Thanks.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 22:28
by spazsinbad
TWO pilot/aircraft [CF-03 and Dyckman] NIGHT catapult references on this thread - DAY?:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281583&hilit=Dyckman#p281583
&
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281607&hilit=Dyckman#p281607
__________________

CMDR Sewell is a candidate for day catshot according to some e-mail photos I received:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281182&hilit=Sewell#p281182

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 23:13
by zerion

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 23:27
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'zerion' - some great quotes from that article above below - another 'bolter' explanation with the two VOLT bit which looks a little scary for Murphy Law to kick in? I will guess that connections are impossible to make incorrectly by physical design?
F-35C shines in first carrier trials aboard carrier Nimitz
17 Nov 2014 Joshua Stewart

"...'Nothing scary'
Karapostoles' job [LSO] is to monitor aircraft as they fly in for a landing. Along the way he helps pilots adjust their course, and, if necessary, he waves off landings because of unsafe conditions or a bad approach. The goal is to land aircraft as safely and quickly as possible.

So far there haven't been any wave-offs for a bad approach, but there were a few due to wind and deck motion. It was "nothing scary," Karapostoles said.

One touch-and-go, however, didn't go as well as hoped, officials said. The maneuver was supposed to simulate an approach to a landing, but the aircraft hit the deck too far forward. Had it been a real landing rather than a simulation, the plane's tailhook would have missed the arresting gear, resulting in a bolter where the pilot quickly lifts back off the deck and circles around the carrier to set up for a second attempt, Karapostoles said.

Otherwise the plane has consistently caught the three wire, he said. The three wire is one of four arresting cables on the Nimitz's flight deck and is the preferred landing zone.

The F-35C test pilots have made approximately 100 traps on the Nimitz, and the three wire was caught so many times that the metal cable had to be replaced. The one wire, the cable furthest aft on the flight deck, hadn't been used at all, Wilson said.

"We've been beating up the three wire," he said.

When it snags that wire, pilots have a softer landing in the F-35C [?] than what they're used to in legacy aircraft, Wilson said...."
&
"...Besides the two-F-35Cs, there were two other new pieces of hardware on the flight deck. Lawnmower-sized generators were brought on board and positioned near the island. Carriers are wired for a 115-volt system to power equipment on legacy aircraft while the F-35C requires a 270-volt system. The generators were put on the deck to provide this alternate voltage.

Officials said that the generators will only be used for carrier tests, and the Navy is adding 270-volt power to carriers during planned availabilities. After receiving the upgrades, carriers will have both 115- and 270-volt systems."Ships will be modified," said Jim Gigliotti, the director for F-35C and Navy program manager for Lockheed Martin...."

Source: http://www.navytimes.com/story/military ... /19019879/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2014, 23:50
by popcorn
This jibes with a documentary I watched some years back ie.,deck crews replace arresting cables after every 100 traps..

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 01:15
by hookswing
The 2 bolters were "forced", forth cable was even removed.
Test points to show performance of a deployed Arresting Hook suddenly going down the end of the carrier (extending).

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 01:45
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'hookswing' for clarification and further to the replacement CDP cycle (which will be on the other thread with a graphic - I'll check etc.... meanwhile just post this nice description....
Design Specifications Development for Unmanned Aircraft Carrier Landings: A Simulation Approach
Midshipman Joseph F. Sweger, Class of 2003; United States Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland

page 8 BACKGROUND...
...Understanding the carrier-landing task requires some discussion of terminology. Angle of attack (AOA) is the angle between where the airplane is pointed and where it is going. This value along with the velocity determines the amount of lift generated. An aircraft’s pitch angle is where the nose is pointed relative to the horizon and for manned aircraft strongly influences the over the nose visibility from the cockpit. Sink rate is the vertical component of the velocity. The glide slope is the desired airplane trajectory, terminating at the desired touch-down point, nominally a straight line extending 3.5 degrees above the horizon as shown in Figure 1 below. Flight-path angle is the angle between the airplane’s velocity vector and the horizon. Because the ship (and touchdown point) is typically moving through the water at 10 to 20 knots, maintaining a 3.5 degree glide slope relative to the ship results in a flight-path angle of 3.0 degrees relative to the inertial frame. The four wires highlighted in Figure 1 are called cross-deck pendants. The cross-deck pendants are disposable and are replaced after 100 hits or sooner if damaged. They are attached to the purchase cable, which goes into the arresting engine under the deck. The maximum energy absorption capability of this system constitutes one of the most significant constraints to the landing problem. Additionally, the targeted hook touch down point is labeled.

The ultimate objective of every carrier approach is a safe arrested landing, or trap. There are many constraints to the landing task. Structures and safety physically constrain carrier landings, while operational requirements demand a high boarding rate (the percentage of approaches that result in a trap). Off-centerline landings are dangerous due to the proximity of personnel and equipment; short (low) approaches hazard striking the aft end of the ship. High approaches will fail to catch a wire. The structural limits of the hook and cross-deck pendant determine the maximum landing velocity. Sink rate is limited by the landing gear structure. Additionally, hook geometry requires the aircraft to land with a positive pitch angle, optimally five degrees, because the main gear must touchdown first. The positive pitch angle is also necessary for the hook to engage the wire...."

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA419423 (PDF 2Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 01:48
by quicksilver
"F-35C Completes Initial Sea Trials aboard Aircraft Carrier

SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- The F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter completed its first phase of developmental test (DT) aboard an aircraft carrier Nov. 14, three days ahead of schedule aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68)..."

"The aircraft demonstrated exceptional performance throughout its initial sea trails, accelerating the team's progress through the DT-I schedule and enabling them to conduct night operations - a milestone typically achieved during the second at-sea phase of developmental tests, as evidenced by the test schedules of the F/A-18 Hornet and F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet."

"We had such confidence in how the plane is flying that we lowered the weather minimums to what the fleet is actually using, knowing that when I lower my hook and come into the groove I'm going to trap," said Lt. Cmdr. Ted Dyckman, Navy test pilot. "That says a lot for the airplane. So, when it came time for night traps, we said the plane is ready and we launched it. It flew very well behind the ship. Even on the darkest night - pretty much as dark as you can get behind the boat. Two hook-down passes and two traps and that says it all right there. It's unheard of to conduct night ops on the first det."

"The engineers responsible for the aircraft's control laws at Pax (Patuxent) River and Fort Worth have done a phenomenal job designing a carefree aircraft from the pilot's perspective," said Cmdr. Tony Wilson, DT I Team Lead. "The F-35C's performance on the ball was revolutionary, providing carefree handling on approach. The Integrated Direct Lift Control (IDLC) allows ball control like no other aircraft. The control schemes of the F-35C provide a tool for the below average ball flyer to compete for top hook. And, Delta Flight Path is an innovative leap in aircraft flight controls - this command enables the F-35 to capture and maintain a glideslope, greatly reducing pilot workload, increasing safety margins during carrier approaches and reducing touchdown dispersion."

"Successful carrier landings of the F-35C also point to an effective re-design of the once-troubled tailhook. Initial testing shore-based testing pointed toward tailhook design issues and the Atlantic Test Range (ATR) at NAS Patuxent River captured critical measurement data with their precision photogrammetric technology and modeling capabilities. The re-design collaboration between Lockheed Martin and Fokker Technologies of the Netherlands - with insight and participation by Navy airworthiness engineers - has yielded a preponderance of three-wire landings during DT-I and firmly established the success of the redesign..."

More at the link -- http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84481

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 06:23
by spazsinbad
It is good that USN has acknowledged the good work by all concerned in PR above.

Meanwhile back on page: 11 was the AvWeak 'Feet Wet' story:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281610&hilit=apparent#p281610

which is now more or less available here now:

http://aviationweek.com/defense/redesig ... sea-trials

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 09:22
by spazsinbad
Trumpets and Fanfare.... TaDah....
"...Sewell became the first person to perform an F -35C catapult launch aboard an aircraft carrier Nov. 4, 2014...."

Pioneering A New Frontier: The Men Behind The F-35C
17 Nov 2014 MC3(SW/AW) Aiyana S. Paschal

BIOs of the two plank owner pilots.... with a foto of the fabfour below.... 'BRICK' Wilson is the shortest 3rd from left. Sewell is first [EDIT - as indicated later probably SECOND on left - why the names could not be with the photo is beyond me - I'm not NCIS]. :devil:

Source: http://nimitznews.wordpress.com/2014/11 ... the-f-35c/


Original Large CLASSIC Photo: https://nimitznews.files.wordpress.com/ ... 625_31.jpg (2.2Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 10:29
by popcorn
Spaz, does your PC display resolution allow you to make out the names on the flight suits of the other 2 guys?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 10:40
by spazsinbad
Resolution not good enough for 'names'. If you know the names then likely in the first 100 F-35 pilots you will see their photo.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 12:36
by quicksilver
Sewell is the tallest. On the far left is Elliot 'Hemo' Clemence.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 12:49
by mk82
quicksilver wrote:"F-35C Completes Initial Sea Trials aboard Aircraft Carrier

SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- The F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter completed its first phase of developmental test (DT) aboard an aircraft carrier Nov. 14, three days ahead of schedule aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68)..."

"The aircraft demonstrated exceptional performance throughout its initial sea trails, accelerating the team's progress through the DT-I schedule and enabling them to conduct night operations - a milestone typically achieved during the second at-sea phase of developmental tests, as evidenced by the test schedules of the F/A-18 Hornet and F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet."

"We had such confidence in how the plane is flying that we lowered the weather minimums to what the fleet is actually using, knowing that when I lower my hook and come into the groove I'm going to trap," said Lt. Cmdr. Ted Dyckman, Navy test pilot. "That says a lot for the airplane. So, when it came time for night traps, we said the plane is ready and we launched it. It flew very well behind the ship. Even on the darkest night - pretty much as dark as you can get behind the boat. Two hook-down passes and two traps and that says it all right there. It's unheard of to conduct night ops on the first det."

"The engineers responsible for the aircraft's control laws at Pax (Patuxent) River and Fort Worth have done a phenomenal job designing a carefree aircraft from the pilot's perspective," said Cmdr. Tony Wilson, DT I Team Lead. "The F-35C's performance on the ball was revolutionary, providing carefree handling on approach. The Integrated Direct Lift Control (IDLC) allows ball control like no other aircraft. The control schemes of the F-35C provide a tool for the below average ball flyer to compete for top hook. And, Delta Flight Path is an innovative leap in aircraft flight controls - this command enables the F-35 to capture and maintain a glideslope, greatly reducing pilot workload, increasing safety margins during carrier approaches and reducing touchdown dispersion."

"Successful carrier landings of the F-35C also point to an effective re-design of the once-troubled tailhook. Initial testing shore-based testing pointed toward tailhook design issues and the Atlantic Test Range (ATR) at NAS Patuxent River captured critical measurement data with their precision photogrammetric technology and modeling capabilities. The re-design collaboration between Lockheed Martin and Fokker Technologies of the Netherlands - with insight and participation by Navy airworthiness engineers - has yielded a preponderance of three-wire landings during DT-I and firmly established the success of the redesign..."

More at the link -- http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84481


Looks like the F35C has performed like a champion!! They should have mentioned that "C" has consistently hooked Sweetie Pie's brains in addition to the 3 wire....wait a minute....Sweetie Pie has no brains in the first place :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 13:49
by popcorn
quicksilver wrote:Sewell is the tallest. On the far left is Elliot 'Hemo' Clemence.

That would account for the different flight suit then as 'Hemo' is presumably a LM pilot.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 14:46
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:It is good that USN has acknowledged the good work by all concerned in PR above.

Meanwhile back on page: 11 was the AvWeak 'Feet Wet' story:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281610&hilit=apparent#p281610

which is now more or less available here now:

http://aviationweek.com/defense/redesig ... sea-trials


Notice who did NOT write that AvWeek article? :lol:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 17:14
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'qs' & 'pop' I'll go with the HEMO as indicated also due flight suit. That had me puzzled at the time and then I was too tired to even care. :mrgreen: So my initial guess above has been amended. :devil: I'm writing this at 0315 my time so you know I have also just woken up (fiter pilote time). :doh:

So Forgive me IF I find this funnie:
Carrier Suitability Multi-Variate Metrics and other stuff...

"...Carrier based aircraft operations and carrier suitability have always fascinated and intrigued me, even before I spent some time at PAX River where the Naval and Marine versions of the JSF are being tested.

Trying to do “unusual and innovatively controlled” FCLPs (i.e. practice carrier landings) in the T-2C and, moreover, the TA-4J (from the back seat, mind you) gave me a healthy respect, both for those who fly ‘em and those who design ‘em – carrier based aircraft, that is; and, some insight into what is needed for an CB aircraft to not be a bolter queen, let alone be called an “outlier”.....

Last edited by Horde; 17th January 2012 at 22:57."

Source: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... ears/page3

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 00:29
by popcorn
'Horde' and Kopp... legends in their own mind :D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 01:18
by spazsinbad
Found it + INDEX to years past to 2010 [repeated F-35B info on the SRVL thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=281772&hilit=nawcad#p281772 ]
VX-23 Strike Test News 2010 - 14 INDEX:
http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... 4E8876769E
VX-23 Strike Test News 2014 [02 Sep 2014]:

"...SHORT TAKEOFF AND VERTICAL LANDING (STOVL)
The F-35B continued sea trials last summer aboard the USS Wasp (LHD 1). Lessons learned from the previous ship trials in 2011 were incorporated and evaluated. Centerline tracking during short takeoffs (STOs) was drastically improved with the combination of an improved NWS schedule and the use of the Three-Bearing Swivel Nozzle (3BSN) for yaw control. BF-1 and BF-5 were utilized for the sea trials to further expand the wind and performance envelope for F-35B STOVL operations on L-class ships. Mission systems testing, to include the Night Vision Camera (NVC) and Distributed Aperture System (DAS) was accomplished by BF-4.

The F-35B STOVL envelope expansion continued last year. The Rolling Vertical Landing (RVL), Creeping Vertical Landing (CVL), Vertical Landing (VL), Slow Landing (SL), Short Take Off (STO) and Vertical Takeoff (VTO) envelopes were all expanded. RVL testing included main runway testing with some crosswind testing. CVL testing began and was completed on both the main runway and the Expeditionary Airfield (EAF). The VL wind envelope was further expanded, with up to 10 knots of tail wind and 15 knots of crosswind. SL and STO testing included crosswind expansion out to 20 knots, completed primarily at Edwards Air Force Base and NAWS China Lake during a wet runway and crosswind detachment. STOVL formation testing began this year, which included formation STOs and SLs. VTO expansion occurred concurrently with AM2 soft soil pad certification....
&
...F-35C CARRIER SUITABILITY
This is a very exciting time for F-35C Carrier Suitability team. We have been busy testing the F-35C at our unique shore-based catapult and arresting gear test facility to ensure it can withstand the punishing forces associated with shipboard flight operations. The TC-7 catapult and Mk-7 arresting gear sites at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland and Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) - Lakehurst located aboard Joint Base Mcguire-Dix-Lakehurst, New Jersey, are fleet representative and almost identical to the equipment aboard today's CVNs. In addition to arrested landings, the team has been hard at work validating the current control laws in preparation for initial sea trials, as well as developing a new set of control laws to increase safety margins and boarding rates.

The road to initial sea trials began in December 2013 with the return to flight of CF-3 — the third F-35C aircraft to roll off of the production floor — after receiving a redesigned hook during a major modification period. The first order of business was to ensure the new hook worked. The team traveled to sunny Lakehurst in January to conduct arresting gear roll-ins. During this phase of testing, we targeted an engaging speed and validated loads on the arresting hook. After achieving the maximum engaging speed, we executed off-center engagements to a maximum of 20 feet off-centerline. The team successfully completed more than 35 roll-in engagements with no hook skips. We used the data from the roll-ins to create an interim Aircraft Recovery Bulletin (ARB) for use at the Patuxent River Mk-7 site and during initial sea trials. Having gained confidence in the new hook system, the team returned to Patuxent River to conduct the next phase of testing — structural survey — in which we evaluate the aircraft structural strength to ensure that it is sufficient for shipboard operations. This is accomplished by conducting several series of arrested landings outside of a normal touchdown envelope. The landing series consist of high sink landings, rolled-yawed landings, maximum engaging speed landings and free flight landings. The free flight landing is similar to an in-flight engagement since the hook engages the cross deck pendant prior to the main wheels touching down; however, the aircraft still has a downward vector. The ultimate goal of this testing is to ensure the aircraft can handle the harsh forces it will experience while a nugget is safely executing night CQ.

The F-35C team as a whole is busy developing the next generation of control laws that aim to increase boarding rates and safety margins while operating around the aircraft carrier. A new control scheme called Delta Flight Path (DFP) is featured on the F-35C. DFP is a form of autopilot in which a flight path is commanded, nominally 3 degrees. The pilot is then free to make lineup corrections with lateral stick without the need to compensate for lost lift with power or longitudinal stick inputs. If the pilot requires a glideslope correction, the sink rate can be increased or decreased using forward or aft stick until a center ball is achieved and then release the stick input. The control laws will then return the aircraft to the commanded flight path. The pilot will have the ability to change the desired glideslope as required by the environmental conditions for any given day. DFP’s goal of increasing boarding rate and safety margin has shown promise during field testing. But, as all good naval aviators know, the boat is the great equalizer and we are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to test DFP during initial sea trials...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=820 (2.8Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 16:25
by spazsinbad

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 19:02
by spazsinbad
Delta Flight Path F-35C JSF Roundtable West Feb 2014


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 20:29
by XanderCrews
spazsinbad wrote:Thanks 'qs' & 'pop' I'll go with the HEMO as indicated also due flight suit. That had me puzzled at the time and then I was too tired to even care. :mrgreen: So my initial guess above has been amended. :devil: I'm writing this at 0315 my time so you know I have also just woken up (fiter pilote time). :doh:

So Forgive me IF I find this funnie:
Carrier Suitability Multi-Variate Metrics and other stuff...

"...Carrier based aircraft operations and carrier suitability have always fascinated and intrigued me, even before I spent some time at PAX River where the Naval and Marine versions of the JSF are being tested.

Trying to do “unusual and innovatively controlled” FCLPs (i.e. practice carrier landings) in the T-2C and, moreover, the TA-4J (from the back seat, mind you) gave me a healthy respect, both for those who fly ‘em and those who design ‘em – carrier based aircraft, that is; and, some insight into what is needed for an CB aircraft to not be a bolter queen, let alone be called an “outlier”.....

Last edited by Horde; 17th January 2012 at 22:57."

Source: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... ears/page3



LOL oh god

And I just got lost in key pubs. Wow. Its nice to visit just to shake my head.

Is that where all these asinine theories are born and then catch fire all over the internet? such fail. wow

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 22:58
by spazsinbad
Perhaps one day we will see something like this in the F-35C?
A Quick Lap Around the Boat
Published on Aug 30, 2014

"Outstanding short video, by John Ivancic, of a quick lap around the USS Theodore Roosevelt in a T-45 Goshawk- under 2 minutes from catapult to trap. John is a pilot with the VT-9 Tigers, one of the two U.S. Navy strike jet training squadrons based at Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi."


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 00:37
by spazsinbad
Crickets Chirping over at USNI News. WTF? Over http://news.usni.org/

Even BreakaDaFence has something: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... ly-really/

BTW my 'SiloBreaker' has gone commercial and I ain't going there. Anyone know of a good FREE online news aggregator please? Tah. 8)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 01:07
by Conan
XanderCrews wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Thanks 'qs' & 'pop' I'll go with the HEMO as indicated also due flight suit. That had me puzzled at the time and then I was too tired to even care. :mrgreen: So my initial guess above has been amended. :devil: I'm writing this at 0315 my time so you know I have also just woken up (fiter pilote time). :doh:

So Forgive me IF I find this funnie:
Carrier Suitability Multi-Variate Metrics and other stuff...

"...Carrier based aircraft operations and carrier suitability have always fascinated and intrigued me, even before I spent some time at PAX River where the Naval and Marine versions of the JSF are being tested.

Trying to do “unusual and innovatively controlled” FCLPs (i.e. practice carrier landings) in the T-2C and, moreover, the TA-4J (from the back seat, mind you) gave me a healthy respect, both for those who fly ‘em and those who design ‘em – carrier based aircraft, that is; and, some insight into what is needed for an CB aircraft to not be a bolter queen, let alone be called an “outlier”.....

Last edited by Horde; 17th January 2012 at 22:57."

Source: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... ears/page3



LOL oh god

And I just got lost in key pubs. Wow. Its nice to visit just to shake my head.

Is that where all these asinine theories are born and then catch fire all over the internet? such fail. wow


You guys know 'Horde' is Peter Goon don't you? You can read more of his drivel/dribble here...

https://twitter.com/horde_

Be warned though. He's not afraid to tweet you at a thousand paces if not careful...

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 01:15
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: I like mysteries :mrgreen: Conan.... Check this video for the people on deck doing ALL THE WORK.
The $1 Trillion Jet • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter • Aircraft Carrier Flight Deck Ops
AiirSource Published on Nov 15, 2014

"Sailors from USS Nimitz fuel and taxi the F-35C Lightning II carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter aboard the USS Nimitz (CVN 68) aircraft carrier off the coast of San Diego, November 4, 2014. The arrested landing is part of initial at-sea developmental testing expected to last two weeks. (U.S. Navy video by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Brett Cote / RELEASED)"


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 02:10
by popcorn
Deleted

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 02:12
by popcorn
Apparently the only proven way to win Koop and Goon over is to give them a ride in the backseat... then all of sudden they start waxing poetic and begin singing praises.. :D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 02:13
by spazsinbad
Must be the MAGIC CAR (Pet? Where is?) BABY SEAL? Then they can go clubbing? Dunno.... OR is that SEAL hisself?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 03:54
by popcorn
Not too shabby :D


http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/f-35 ... ly-really/



Here’s what the other test pilot, Lt. Cmdr. Ted Dyckman, and to say about the night landings, which any carrier pilot will tell you can be very hairy: “It flew very well behind the ship. Even on the darkest night – pretty much as dark as you can get behind the boat. Two hook-down passes and two traps and that says it all right there. It’s unheard of to conduct night ops on the first det.”

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 04:01
by spazsinbad
For sure - good vibes to go dark. I wonder what HELMUT (Oz Parliament spelling remember?) was used. As 'Neppie' says: "Enquiring Minds WANT to KNOW". :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 09:33
by spazsinbad
I'm not taking the F-35C success away however in different times some 50+ years ago when test circumstances were different the PHANTOM had a good day also.
F4H Carrier Suitability
15 Apr 1960 McDonnell Aircraft Report No. 7462

"...Trials at Sea, Feb 1960
Following extensive build-up landing arrestments and catapult shots at NATC Patuxent River, the F4H-1 went to sea for the first time on 15-18 February aboard the USS Independence. Cdr. Larry Flint and Lcdr. Paul Spencer together accomplished 17 arrested landings - one at a sink rate of 21.8 FPS - and 18 catapult launches. The F4H-1 displayed a highly satisfactory degree of stability and controllability in the approach, a high reserve of power for wave-offs or bolters, and relative ease in deck handling and catapulting. The day operations were carried out so smoothly that even one night catapult and arrested landing were made-an unprecedented accomplishment for a new aircraft's first trip to sea...."

Source: http://aviationarchives.net/F-4H%20Carr ... bility.pdf (5.3Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 17:53
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Well, it IS the Phabulous Phantom!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 18:07
by XanderCrews
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Well, it IS the Phabulous Phantom!


It had a really good reputation, IIRC it came in like it was "on rails" so very steady.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 19:23
by spazsinbad
Heheh - the TOOM shared some hook history with the Cee (not sure if I have posted this tidbit here already, perhaps on the other thread - anyway as it is a 'topic') a redesigned hook. Quote from same PDF above.
"...Because of its relatively low approach speed and its rugged construction (which permits a high engaging speed) the F4H wind-over-deck requirement for landing is particularly low. The fleet airplanes-· #48 and up-will have greater structural strength, a new and stronger hook, and a correspondingly lower W.O.D. requirement than the early airplanes..."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 20:11
by spazsinbad
Learn something new every day (or perhaps this is an exception?). I was always under impression that Hornet pilots had hand on throttle for catapulting with other hand on the grip. Maybe it is a VX-23 thing or perhaps optional? Whatever.... Pilot is going to fly the BOING! X-32 later.

ADDITION: Situation clarified elsewhere. The segment showing the pilot 'left' hand on the towel rail is really his right hand. During editing (not me) of the original video the segment has been 'mirrored'. Hope that is clear? :doh: Otherwise the pilot left hand is on the throttle.

F-18 Hornet Carrier Approach Explained + Catapult


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2014, 04:04
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: If youse have ever wondered what I meant by CRABS - here ya go! :mrgreen: From InSultan....
RAF public information broadcast. Taranto night
Published on Nov 19, 2014 Jonathan Danks

"Taranto night film HMS Sultan 2014


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2014, 03:39
by spazsinbad
What might have been for the RN FAA (ok chuck in some crabs perhaps) but not to be - anyhow a look at F-35C carrier landings via the sim at BAE UK a few years back when such things were on the cards - and then not.

CVF F-35C Pilot Long HUD View BAE Simulator UK


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2014, 13:14
by popcorn
Ya think?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... -at-sea/2/



...Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned about our culture from the fact that the Navy’s very positive experience with its F-35 variant this month has gone largely unnoticed in the general media, even though every supposed problem with the plane up to this point has gotten headlines...

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2014, 14:46
by quicksilver
popcorn wrote:Ya think?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomps ... -at-sea/2/



...Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned about our culture from the fact that the Navy’s very positive experience with its F-35 variant this month has gone largely unnoticed in the general media, even though every supposed problem with the plane up to this point has gotten headlines...


Media learned it long ago. Editorial rule of thumb is, "if it bleeds...it leads." Controversy sells, and in the 21st century it sells website hits (which generate advertising and justifies ad rates).

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2014, 20:37
by mixelflick
Remember when the tailhook was a "HUGE" problem?

Sure doesn't look that way anymore. The media will just move on to something else, oblivious to the fact new birds have bugs to be worked out. This is looking like the F-15 more and more now that I think about it. Early on, it was panned. Too big, too expensive, won't live up to the hype.

More than lived up to it, in fact. 105 or so kills to 0 losses, in air to air engagements.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2014, 05:45
by spazsinbad
Towards the end of this interview (majority about the F-35B/CVF) there are questions about the F-35C and arresting the same so it is appropriate to post the same material that appears there [ viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=281943&hilit=Hipple#p281943 ] here:
Sea Control 28 (East Atlantic) – The F-35
March 2014 By LT Matthew Hipple speaking to STEVE GEORGE

"For the inaugural edition of Sea Control’s “East Atlantic” series, Alexander Clarke brings on Steve George, former engineer with the F-35 program and Royal Navy veteran to discuss the challenges and misconceptions of the F-35 program."

AUDIO: http://cimsec.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... c-F-35.mp3 (28Mb)

Source: http://blog.usni.org/2014/03/31/sea-con ... c-the-f-35

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2014, 02:00
by spazsinbad
Elsewhere there is the suggestion that the USN does not want the F-35C. So this video could go there (many places this suggestion is made however) whilst I reckon the last bit about 'carrier integration' etc. puts the video here. AND this video is more than ONE YEAR OLD so don't get huffy about that. Also the start has good bits about 'nifc-ca' ca-ca. AND... a MANAZIR oldie:
Navy Needs F-35's Capabilities, Admiral Says
Story Number: NNS100526-10 Release Date: 5/26/2010 Jim Garamone, American Forces Press Service

"WASHINGTON (NNS) -- The Navy needs the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter's fifth-generation capabilities, said the service's acting director of air warfare May 24.

Navy Rear Adm. Michael C. Manazir spoke to reporters because he wanted to "completely dispel the rumor that the Navy is soft on F-35C." {But ADM - no one gives a crap - right? Least of all the rumourmongers.]..."

Source: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=53637

CNO Testifies About Joint Strike Fighter
Published on Jun 19, 2013 USN

"Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert testified before the Senate Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Defense about the Joint Strike Fighter (F-35C) on June 19, 2013."


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2014, 21:10
by spazsinbad
X-35C & F-35C FCLP & Arrests NIMITZ Nov 2014


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 22:24
by spazsinbad
ONLY some woids from this excellent 6 page PDF article from Dec 2014 edition of Air International [NOW ATTACHED] are excerpted below.
Cats, Traps & a Rooster Tail
December 2014 Mark Ayton Air International

"[F-35C Aircraft] “...CF-03/‘SD73’ and CF-05/‘SD75’...

...DEVELOPMENTAL TESTER TEST DIRECTOR
Cdr Shawn Kern is the Director of Test and Evaluation for F-35 Naval Variants and the senior military member within the F-35 Integrated Test Force (ITF) based at Patuxent River. He leads a diverse team comprising 920 members from the US Government, the military and contractors responsible for developmental test of the F-35B and F-35C aircraft during the System Development and Demonstration phase. During DT I, Cdr Kern led the F-35 ITF, provided government oversight of carrier suitability testing and co-ordinated with the USS Nimitz’s captain, executive officers and other F-35 stakeholders.

He told AIR International: “Launch testing included minimum catapult end speed determination as well as performance and handling during high and low energy catapult launches and crosswind conditions at representative aircraft gross weights. Approach and recovery testing focused on aircraft performance and handling qualities during off-nominal recoveries in low, medium, high and crosswind wind conditions. Data and analysis from DT I will support the development of initial aircraft launch and recovery bulletins for F-35C carrier operations and Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardisation (NATOPS) flight manual procedures. Test results from DT I will also influence follow-on developmental and operational testing required to achieve F-35C initial operational capability.”

Lt Cdr Ted Dyckman is a US Navy F-35 test pilot assigned to VX-23 based at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland: he made the second-ever arrested landing on a super carrier in aircraft CF-05 on November 3 and the first night-time landing on November 13 in CF-03. Speaking about the F-35C’s performance around the carrier, Lt Cdr Dyckman told AIR International: “Everything met expectations and there were no surprises. Going through the burble was a big unknown, but the airplane responded better than we thought it would.

“We saw that the aircraft could trap: the only true bolter was a power call by the Landing Signals Officer when the aircraft touched down long with the hook down but came around and made an arrested landing.

“When the weather started to deteriorate we had such confidence in how the aircraft was flying that we lowered the weather minimums to those used by the fleet. I knew that when I lowered the hook I was going to trap. That says a lot for the airplane.

“Because the autopilots and flying qualities are so good, the workload to fly the jet is reduced and we were confident enough to declare it ready for night-time traps. It flew very well behind the ship and I made two hook-down passes and two traps. It’s unheard of to conduct night ops on a type’s first period at sea.

“We accomplished everything we set out to do, which allows us to go to DT II and conduct maximum speed catapult shots and carry internal and external stores and asymmetric payloads.”...

...Flight testing was split into three phases: day carrier qualification (CQ) and flight deck crew familiarisation; the development of aircraft launch bulletins (ALB) and aircraft recovery bulletins (ARB). In addition DT I also included Logistical Test and Evaluation (LT&E). Subsets of each phase comprised:

Aircraft Launch Bulletins
• Military rated thrust catapult launches
• Minimum catapult launch end speeds
• Low, medium and high excess wind over deck (WOD) catapult launches
• Crosswind catapult launches
• Bow and waist catapult launches

Aircraft Recovery Bulletins
• Approach handling qualities (AHQ) of F-35C approach modes: delta flight path, approach power compensator (APC), and manual • Low, medium and high excess WOD recoveries
• Crosswind recoveries • Bolter performance Logistical Test and Evaluation
• Deck handling including taxiing, towing and tie-down
• Weapons loading
• Basic maintenance, including aircraft jacking and landing gear servicing
• Maintenance support

Preparations
Since the author’s previous visit to the F-35 ITF at Pax River in April the main test objectives completed over the summer were arrested landings, touch and goes (a training evolution also known as field carrier landing practice or FCLP) and a structural survey of CF-03. The latter was a methodical check of the aircraft to ensure it was structurally suitable to be flown aboard an aircraft carrier. The survey included testing engineering fixes made to the aircraft’s pitch pivot pin and nose wheel steering motor. Although precautionary, the survey was required because functionality problems had been discovered with each component during the F-35C’s developmental flight test programme. A subset of the structural testing performed on CF-03, known as a shake, was also completed on CF-05 to ensure it was also suitable for carrier trials. No issues were found.

One other pre-deployment test evolution was electromagnetic environmental effects (E3). This required CF-03 to spend two weeks in the shielded hangar at Pax River, to ensure that electromagnetic interference from the ship’s emitters did not affect any of the aircraft’s vital systems and cause them to shut down. The official E3 test report was completed on October 16 which cleared the aircraft to embark onboard the carrier.

All requisite carrier suitability testing was concluded on October 17 and the final FCLPs were completed at Pax River four days later.

One interruption to the test programme over the summer was caused by the temporary grounding order resulting from an engine fire on F-35A AF-27, serial number 10-5015, at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida on June 23. Each engine underwent a rigorous inspection process and because of the priority given to DT I, CF-03 was the first to be inspected, analysed and cleared back to flight: CF-05 followed....

...No modifications were required to the flight deck, not even the Jet Blast Deflectors (JBDs): hydraulic-controlled panels designed to divert hot aircraft exhaust during launches. The panels are raised in preparation for takeoff, protecting the flight deck and aircraft behind from the hot aircraft exhaust. Modification of the JBDs will be required for subsequent DT evolutions, when afterburner will be required to launch aircraft with heavier all-up weights than those used during DT I. Any changes implemented will alter the cooling path of the F-35’s exhaust plume, which interacts with the carrier’s decking differently from that of the twin-engined members of the Hornet family....

...Support Onboard and from Ashore
DT I was supported by a pre-production, nonfleet representative version of the Autonomic Logistics Information System known as ALIS 1.03. According to the F-35 Joint Program Office: “Standard ALIS functions were in place and used to support F-35C operations and maintenance onboard USS Nimitz. The functions were accessible via approved Department of Defense network and cyber security policies and authorisations similar to ALIS support for F-35B STOVL deployments to the USS Wasp (LHD 1)....

...Increased robustness in the aircraft’s control laws refers to:
• Pro-rotation during a catapult and bolter.
• Integrated Direct Lift Control which integrates the control surfaces such that wing camber is altered to increase or decrease lift, thus allowing glide slope changes to be made without a large change in engine thrust.
• Delta Flight Path, which is an innovative leap in aircraft flight controls, that commands the aircraft to capture and maintain a glide slope. The system greatly reduces the pilot’s workload, increases the safety margins during carrier approaches and reduces touchdown dispersion.

Wind Effects
Aircraft carriers are unique in that they have different wind effects that the pilot and the aircraft’s flight control laws must take into account. The overall wind effect is called the burble,...

...“We are evaluating how the control law handles through the burble. Data collected during DT I will now be used by the control law engineers for analysis and to improve our simulator modelling. Because the burble is such a dynamic and integrated wind system there are challenges to modelling it accurately. Future F-35 pilot training will benefit from this work,” said Cdr Wilson....

...We started making intentional errors in our approaches [off-nominal]. This allowed us to see how the aircraft’s flight control laws react to corrections input by the pilot and the effect of the burble while trying to make the corrections. “The pilot intentionally lines up [on approach] on either side of the landing area…starting either high or low, or flying fast or slow to see if there is enough time to input the correction and get back on centreline, on glide slope and on speed [flying a proper approach speed] prior to touch down. “As we fly off nominal approaches, if the LSO [landing signals officer] doesn’t see a timely correction or doesn’t feel that the pilot is going to land safely, he or she will wave them off.

“The LSO [who is located on a platform positioned 120ft (36.6m) from the end of the ship and 40ft (12.2m) from the centreline on the port side] is a pilot trained to observe the aircraft as it flies down the approach watching for deviation in pitch attitude using a camera that shows whether the aircraft is on or off centreline. Listening to the aircraft, the LSO is trained to recognise changes in rates of vertical and horizontal movement to ensure the aircraft is going to clear the ramp at the aft of the ship and recover safely aboard. The LSO plays a vital role in the safe recovery of aircraft aboard the ship.

“Getting aircraft back to the boat is our first concern: our second is [preventing] what we call a long bolter. This occurs if the pilot fails to correct a big deviation and lands well beyond the four-wire [the last arrestment cable along the deck]. For safety purposes any time an aircraft touches down on the deck, the pilot needs sufficient deck to derotate, and get the throttle back to mil[itary] power to fly away. There’s not enough time for the plane to de-rotate with a long bolter, which means it could still have downward direction so when [the aircraft] rolls off the front end of the boat it’s going to sink....

...evaluated approaches with crosswinds behind the ship out to 7kts....

...“We also evaluated approach handling qualities in low and high wind conditions: low is 10 to 20kt, nominal is 20 to 30kt and high is in excess of 30kt. The team’s goal for DT I was to gain as much data with cross winds and various head winds to allow us to start writing our aircraft launch and recovery bulletins.”

What Next?
Testing around the carrier gets more complicated with aircraft weight and asymmetry. On subsequent DT events the F-35 ITF will increase aircraft weight and asymmetry by loading stores on one side to create as much asymmetry as possible, which is the complicating factor. Cdr Wilson told AIR International that testing on subsequent DT events is going to look very similar but will evaluate heavier weights and asymmetric lateral weight differences.

OUTCOMES FROM DT I
• Flight test conducted in the operational environment.
• The F-35C demonstrated exceptional handling qualities throughout all launch and recovery conditions tested.
• All four test pilots rated the F-35C to be very easy to operate from the carrier. Arrested landings were consistent: the aircraft caught the optimal three-wire in the majority of the 102 traps. Pilot comments included: “I noticed the burble, but the aircraft just takes care of it”, “It makes flying the ball comfortable” and “This thing is a three-wire machine”....

...STATISTICS FROM DT I
Start date: November 3
Completion date: November 14
Flights: 33
Flight hours: 39.2
Catapult launches: 124
Touch-and-goes: 222
Arrested landings: 124
Bolters: 2 intentional with the hook down
Threshold test points completed: 100%”

Source: pp 42-47 Air International December 2014

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 00:51
by spazsinbad
IF unfamiliar with the whys and wherefores of how ordinary people become NavAv pilots (in the old USN) well - this is the way:

Buckeye T-2C FCLP & Carrier Quals New Pilots


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 17:48
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'SWP' for this link (on another 'blog'): [BEST READ at URL below]
SAC-D Hearing Opening Statement on the Joint Strike Fighter (F-35C) Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Greenert
19 June 2013 by jfmetzger

"...Today’s topic, for me the F-35C is really a key part of our future. It provides a unique and essential set of capabilities for our air wing and for our carrier strike group, effectively for the fleet. And it will dramatically enhance the near term and the future air wing capability immediately upon its integration....

...So to me Mr. Chairman the F-35C is designed to provide the capability we need and I look forward to working with this committee, with the Congress and with program committee to bring this into the fleet in an affordable rate, thank you."

Source: http://cno.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/06 ... ter-f-35c/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 03 Dec 2014, 12:19
by spazsinbad
How an approach to NIMITZ may have looked - via STENNIS: http://media.komonews.com/images/130401 ... nnis_2.jpg
"The USS John C. Stennis is seen in a March 3, 2013 Navy photo."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 00:09
by langbein
Hi!

Thank you all for a great site. This is my first post here. Found this video on youtube.

Crew Interviews from F-35C Sea Trials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7VuysNHFIY

Looking good!

Regards,

Morten

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 01:38
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'Morten', Great video - with extra not before seen scenes - turn down the volume on the initial music perhaps or turn it up to ELEVEN! :devil: Screenshot below shows weight board for catapulting at 46K lbs. Which is around the max arrested landing weight - makes sense when doing as many cats and arrests as possible for carqual etc. Den Dat HOOK - Capt'n (wot no crocodile - tick tock) & those northern lights for de catapult holdback (mistooken for a fire earlier). :devil:
F-35C Opt AoA: VX-23 'Salty Dogs' F-35C Update Paddles Monthly
Sept 2010 LCDR Ken “Stubby” Sterbenz VX-23 Ship Suitability Department Head

"...The max trap weight will be around 46k lbs, with an empty weight of about 35k lbs.
It will fly an on-speed AOA of 12.3° at 135-140 KCAS [Optimum AofA or Donut]...."

Source: http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesM ... er2010.pdf (1Mb no longer available)

AND DA HOOK!

Just as an aside - to highlight the difference between NOW and in ye olden dayse:
RECOLLECTIONS OF AEROMEDICAL FLYING TRIALS
11 Mar 2014 Surg Cdr Herbert Ellis RN FAA

"...Next day we were off to visit Ark Royal [in a tandem METEOR without a hook]. What then took place warrants recording in the history books – Pat was the oldest man ever to have done a first ‘deck landing’. After an initial try, when I flew the aircraft from the back seat for a ‘touch and go’, Pat repeated the exercise himself a few times before we returned to Farnborough.

This met the Admiralty’ s requirements before participating in deck-landing. And here I quote……
‘No one must do a deck-landing until, either, he has completed a formal course in deck-landing or he has done a deck-landing.


Source: http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/R ... dicine.pdf (3Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 04:32
by neptune
langbein wrote:..F-35C Sea Trials..



Thanks, this is why I keep coming back to this site!

:)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 05:11
by spazsinbad
From same video mentioned above - JUST THE DLs and ONLY THE DLs (mostly). Some in SLO MO and look at that last catshot. Bumpy Bumpy indeedy. AND.... some old USN TA-4J action for nugget CarQuals etc.



Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 06:05
by sferrin
I think youtube killed your sound.

Yikes, that main gear is pretty scarey there at 1:10. How that compare to something like a Tomcat or Super Hornet?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 06:50
by spazsinbad
Regarding sound in F-35C clip: To pre-empt Youtube offering to truncate any soundtrack not able to be online in a video youse can elect to just have the first ten seconds - so that is what you hear - going down the hard road by hilltop hoods.

The F-35C can bring back (MAX. Carrier Landing Arrest Weight) around 2,000 lbs more than the Super Hornet at similar airspeeds (at a rough guess on IAS - NATOPS will have those details). I would have to find a Tomcat F-14 NATOPS probably to answer that question. In the other long thread (LAKEHURST) as I recall there was a table of max.arrest.weights and approach speeds probably. Too long ago and too much information inbetween that I'll never need to remember to remember. :mrgreen:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 07:10
by spazsinbad
Complex & Robust
Flight International F-35 Special ? 2014?
"Mark Ayton explains the highly complex landing gear systems used on the F-35...

...Patented by Carpenter Steel, Aermet 100 has very high strength and slow crack propagation properties, so if a crack develops in the material, the crack will spread slowly with further load applications. By contrast 300M or 4340M grade steel has the same strength quality, but poor crack propagation. This gives more opportunities to discover cracks in the structure before a catastrophic failure occurs.

Each type of F-35 landing gear has a Goodrich-proprietary system integrated within the aircraft’s maintenance system to help the maintainer assess the level of the gas and oil in each shock strut during servicing.

Cats and Traps
Landing gears for the F-35C CV variant have to be able to withstand extreme high energy landings typical of naval aircraft operating from an aircraft carrier as well as the nose tow launch. Both the F-35C nose and main gears are made primarily of Aermet 100 steel.

The nose gear of the CV variant is a dual stage gas over oil cantilever strut with a staged air curve that provides a source of high energy, which helps the aircraft to achieve adequate angle of attack when released from the catapult during take-off from the aircraft carrier. The CV nose gear carries a complex mechanism which positions the launch bar in readiness for various stages of operation during the launch of the aircraft off the carrier. The mechanism is driven by a power unit comprising a number of powerful springs and a small internal actuator.

There are two reasons for having a staged shock strut for the nose gear on the F-35C CV variant. One is to provide a stable platform for loading and unloading weapons and for engaging the catapult equipment. The second is to store energy gained from the compression of the strut under the high pressure effect of the catapult. When the catapult lets go of the launch bar, the energy is released, providing a rotation that helps achieve the angle of attack necessary to get off the deck.

Similarly when the aircraft hits the deck on landing the strut is compressed and energy is stored to help rotate the aeroplane and get it back off the deck if the arrestor cables are missed and a ‘go-around’ or ‘bolter’ is required. Bolter is the term used when the aircraft’s tail hook misses the arrestor cables on the carrier deck forcing the pilot to go around for another landing.

The CV nose gear also has a locking drag brace and a launch bar that acts to transmit the high launch load from the catapult equipment to the airframe. A separate retract actuator provides the force to retract the gear into the wheel well. One end of the retract actuator is attached to the landing gear structure and the upper end to the airframe structure.

Fitted to the aft of the strut is a power unit housing an actuator that hydraulically lowers the launch bar to the deck to engage the catapult. When the launch bar hits the deck a second set of springs inside the power unit provide lighter power so that the launch bar can move up and down to engage the shuttle, without jamming or binding, or badly wearing the deck or the launch bar. Large powerful springs are able to pull the launch bar back up to an intermediate position when the hydraulic power is released.

The power unit also has a linkage that operates off the motion of the drag brace during retraction to position the launch bar in a stowed position (virtually parallel to the strut) when the gear is retracted. During the retraction process the launch bar moves upwards but also rotates around the strut to reduce the actual footprint within the stowage bay.

The torque arms that typically maintain alignment between the strut piston and the steering unit are on the aft of the strut as well, and have a fitting at the apex that engages the repeatable release holdback bar (RRHB) of the ship. This bar holds the aircraft back during engine runs and while the load builds during the start of a catapult sequence. Once the load reaches an adequate level, the RRHB releases the torque arm fitting, allowing the aircraft to be catapulted to flight. In comparison to the F-35A CTOL and the F-35B STOVL, the nose gear of the F-35C CV has a dual wheel/tyre arrangement to straddle the catapult equipment and to adequately react to the loads. Nose wheels are the same as those used on the other variants but the tyre was developed specifically for the F-35C.

Like the CTOL and STOVL variants, the CV main gear is a dual stage gas over oil cantilever strut with staged air curves that provide a stable platform for loading and unloading weapons and hold stored energy to assist in getting airborne in the case of a ‘bolter’ during carrier operations.

The main gears have a retract actuator between the strut and the airframe, providing the force to retract the gear into the wheel well. Each also has a drag brace with locking linkage and locking actuator with backup springs to react fore and aft ground loads. The F-35C’s drag braces attach to a collar on the strut and a pivot pin in the aircraft that roll around the strut centreline during retraction to minimize the amount of space in the bay when retracted.

Featuring a long main strut the F-35C’s main gear has a shrink mechanism to shorten the strut prior to retraction so it will fit within the available space. The Goodrich-proprietary shrink mechanism utilizes a novel transfer cylinder to convert high pressure and low flow aircraft hydraulics into a low pressure and high flow shock shrink hydraulics.

Unlike the nose gear, the CV main gear system utilizes the same main wheel and brake as the F-35A CTOL. All tyres used on the F-35C CV variant are significantly more robust than the CTOL and STOVL variants, because of the high energy landings on top of arrestor cables."

Source: fnose - no longer available at former URL

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2014, 16:14
by spazsinbad
Anuzzer Wideo: mit noice SloMo Arrest at end.


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2014, 10:22
by spazsinbad
Over the page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=282427&hilit=Tomcat#p282427 'sferrin' commented on the Tomcat and whatnots. Here is the Max. Carrier Landing Weight (for arrestor gear) and consequent KIAS (Vpa) as well as the (Vs) ground/deck speed / wheel speed -with ideal WOD - on touchdown arrest from: http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~durham/2002-71.pdf

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2014, 14:23
by sferrin
I was referring to the squirrely main gear. Was flopping around like a shopping cart wheel. (I'm sure we'd see similar unusual behavior from other aircraft, I'd just never noticed it before.)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2014, 18:00
by spazsinbad
Quote from the long story above about the nose/main gear:
"...Unlike the nose gear, the CV main gear system utilizes the same main wheel and brake as the F-35A CTOL. All tyres used on the F-35C CV variant are significantly more robust than the CTOL and STOVL variants, because of the high energy landings on top of arrestor cables."..."


BIG PIC: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 66-050.JPG (1.2Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:19
by spazsinbad
CODE ONE Magazine Website has me BAFFLED every time I go there. Well anyway I've found this page with a tonne of excellent photos of the recent CVN F-35C test period (one or two mislabelled but hey still great EXCELLENT photos):

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35-highlights.html AND DIS IS DE PLACE BELOW:

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_ ... ry_style=2
&
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_ ... ry_style=2
&
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_ ... ry_style=2
&
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_ ... ry_style=2

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:23
by KamenRiderBlade
With the F-14 having the heaviest trap weight in the US for regular use.

Was the C-130 the heaviest thing to ever land on a US Aircraft carrier?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:36
by spazsinbad
Great complete story here so only a little tiny weensy bit excerpted below:
C-130 Carrier Landing Trials
29 Sep 2014 Jeff Rhodes

"...The KC-130 weighed 85,000 pounds on the first landing. Thereafter, landings were made in progression up to a gross weight of 121,000 pounds. At maximum weight, which set the record for the largest and heaviest aircraft landing on a US Navy aircraft carrier, Flatley and Stovall used only 745 feet for takeoff and 460 feet for landing. One landing at a weight of 109,000 pounds required 495 feet to stop and that was in a heavy squall. On the last takeoffs, the crew didn't even back up — they simply took off from the point on the deck where the aircraft stopped.

The crew completed the carrier qualification tests around noon on 22 November. "We got back to Pax River and started writing the final report and collecting the statistical data. We wrote the recommended procedures so anyone else wanting to land on a carrier had the information available. We went about our business and were told not to talk about it," noted Flatley. The project remained classified officially for a year, although word got out quickly to the flying community.

The feasibility of landing a C-130 with a useful payload on a carrier was clearly demonstrated, but in the end, it simply was not practical. "A carrier with no tactical aircraft on deck makes a skipper antsy," Brennan noted. "The captain of the Forrestal gave us two hours — to the minute — each trip and then we had to go home."..."

Source: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=148

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 06:44
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:... Flatley and Stovall used only 745 feet for takeoff and 460 feet for landing. One landing at a weight of 109,000 pounds required 495 feet to stop and that was in a heavy squall.....]


LHA-6 America
Length: 844 feet (257.3 meters)
Beam: 106 feet (32.3 meters)

LHA-5 Peleliu
Length: 820 ft (250 m)
Beam: 106.6 ft (32.5 m)

LHD-1 Wasp
Length: 844 ft (257 m)
Beam: 106 ft (32 m)

C-27J
Wingspan: 28.7 m (94 ft 2 in)

.....would it fit???... :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 07:04
by spazsinbad
Who cares? This says it all....
"... but in the end, it simply was not practical...."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 00:37
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:Who cares? ......]


USMC?? :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 00:45
by spazsinbad
Why? Do you just dream this stuff up?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 02:10
by johnwill
sferrin wrote:I was referring to the squirrely main gear. Was flopping around like a shopping cart wheel. (I'm sure we'd see similar unusual behavior from other aircraft, I'd just never noticed it before.)


Looked pretty normal to me. Here is a real gear dance for you, right at the beginning of the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdJxjvQZW4

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 02:57
by spazsinbad
Thanks. I like the TSR2 accel on one engine in reheat outpacing a Lightning in double reheat. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 05:37
by johnwill
I've heard that story too, but from thrust to weight comparisons, it seems very unlikely. At a nominal 50% fuel weight, here they are:

Lightning - weight 39,000 lb
- thrust 2 x 16,000 lb = 32,000 lb
- T/W - .82

TSR2 - weight 67,000 lb
- thrust 22,000 lb + 31,000 lb = 53,000 lb
- T/W - .79

Most of the wonderful performance claims for the TSR2 were never even approached, let alone verified. Several serious shortcomings were encountered during the very early stages of flight test and were never resolved due to the termination of the program. Who knows what other shortcomings might have been found had the full flight envelope been explored? We'll never know.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 18:34
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'JW'. Now for something completely different.... An OldenAge Movie about LSOs USN1963style - view it to see everything you wanted to know about NavAv (herein called Carrier Aviation - how quaint). :mrgreen: Watching a Vigilante approach via the PLAT camera had me shaking my head. How did they do it and connect with the BARRICADE?! Gutsy stuff indeed.
Landing Signal Officer 1963 US Navy Training Film; Aircraft Carrier Operations
Published on Dec 5, 2014 Jeff Quitney

"Aircraft Carrier Landing Signal Officer duties are explained in this USN Training Film. US Navy Training Film MN-9920"


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 20:52
by optimist
KamenRiderBlade wrote:With the F-14 having the heaviest trap weight in the US for regular use.

Was the C-130 the heaviest thing to ever land on a US Aircraft carrier?

probably, but the U-2 was cooler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HMPMYL19E


thank you, I was wondering why it didn't work

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 21:08
by spazsinbad
Thanks for that 'optimist'. There is a thread or part of on this forum about the U-2s doin' it. I'll get that link soon.
Go here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16571&p=212427&hilit=Carrier#p212427

This thread: A brief history of tailhook design & others I'll guess have various bits about Dragon Lady U-2.

Meanwhile for making the Utube video appear just take the URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HMPMYL19E and change it thusly:

[youtube]L8HMPMYL19E[/youtube (now you just need to add the last square bracket to end the string for it to work)

OK - I see you have done it - cool.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2014, 01:16
by spazsinbad
This'll make Carrier Deck Landings probably a lot more accurate - especially with all the gizmos on the F-35C.
Dedicated team delivers next-gen visual landing aid equipment, wins prestigious award
18 Dec 2014 PEO(T) Public Affairs

"NAVAL AIR SYSTEMS COMMAND, PATUXENT RIVER, Md. -- A Navy aircraft launch and recovery team was recognized for its exemplary work with a 2014 Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) Commander’s Award during a ceremony at Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) headquarters in Patuxent River, Maryland, Dec. 10.

The 45-member Improved Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (IFLOLS) Phase IV development team met the challenge of supplying the Navy’s aircraft carriers with an upgraded optical landing system through an in-house government effort. The project was designed, developed, tested and fielded by NAVAIR engineers at Joint Base Maguire-Dix-Lakehurst, New Jersey....

...The group will see its efforts come to fruition with the commencement of its first install aboard USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) this month....

...For decades, pilots have relied on the optical landing system on board the Navy’s aircraft carriers to provide glideslope and other critical information and guide them to a safe recovery. IFLOLS Phase IV is the latest advancement to this technology.

"The new Phase IV system will provide the fleet with a significantly improved IFLOLS, which incorporates fully supportable hardware and an integrated system with increased maintainability and availability, resulting in increased boarding and sortie rates,” said Jaime Madera, carrier landing aids program manager and IFLOLS Phase IV team lead.

Madera explained USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) is the next carrier scheduled to have the system installed in 2016, and all carriers will be outfitted thereafter...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=5806

CAPTION: "The Improved Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (IFLOLS) provides visual cues to pilots of approaching aircraft..." http://www.navair.navy.mil/img/uploads/1218photo_2.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2015, 16:52
by spazsinbad
'apropos of nothing' except maybe I mentioned that one day a new version of the 'how to deck land' PDF would be uploaded? Today is the day. On GoogleDrive is a 2.5Gb PDF (Microsoft OneDrive now only allows me 2Gb files so that is still uploading) with these details:

GoogleDrive SpazSinbad Folder: _How To Deck Land 01 Jan 2015

PDF FILE: HowDeckLand01jan2014.pdf (2.5Gb)

https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#fo ... VpEd3NpTE0

Please right mouse click on the file to download it to your computer and view the PDF with the latest version of Adobe Reader - now 11.0.10 - obtainable for your Operating System here [only install Adobe Reader - nothing else required]:

http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/

Most of the information, except for some extra embedded videos, is from the latest 4.4Gb PDF - a recent version is on GoogleDrive or OneDrive - look in other folders. Now look below for Microsoft OneDrive details - ALL FILES FREE etc.
_______________

FOLDER: _How To Deck Land 01 Jan 2015 2GB PDF

PDF FILE: How Deck Land 01 Jan 2014 2GB

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C ... 7E6%212119
OR
http://1drv.ms/1zWGqsb

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2015, 13:03
by spazsinbad
The best introduction to NavAv I have seen - from the beginning.
Angle Of Attack - "How Naval Aviation Changed The Face Of War" [1 hour and 49 minutes]
TheWhiplash007 Published on Jul 5, 2013


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2015, 22:15
by count_to_10
spazsinbad wrote:The best introduction to NavAv I have seen - from the beginning.
Angle Of Attack - "How Naval Aviation Changed The Face Of War" [1 hour and 49 minutes]
TheWhiplash007 Published on Jul 5, 2013


Interesting stuff at the beginning, but by the end it tailed off into social commentary.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2015, 23:41
by spazsinbad
Must admit I watched only the first fifty minutes or so and ran out of time but will watch the rest soon as. :mrgreen: Social Commentary? Please explain. :mrgreen:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2015, 20:03
by spazsinbad
NEVER ignore the weatherpeoples. Seeing as how 'maus92' brought up the topic on this irrelevant thread here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14115&p=283698&hilit=comparative#p283698
USS Nimitz SGOT Provides Crucial Support for F-35C Interoperability Test
Dec 2014 Lt. Cmdr. Jonathan Savage NMOC News

"...Tests were extremely weather-sensitive; forecasts and observations made by Aerographer’s Mate 1st Class Brett Madore’s Nimitz Strike Group Oceanography Team played a critical role in ensuring a successful test program. Each night, the carrier positioned itself based on Aerographer’s Mate 1st Class Monica Delcoro and Aerographer’s Mate 1st Class Brian Heiler’s recommendations to achieve best winds for the following day’s test. Engineers and test pilots regularly checked their test plan against the forecasts to ensure their minimum and maximum wind requirements could be met.

Local and divert field weather observations provided by Aerographer’s Mate 2nd Class Marcus Foudy, Aerographer’s Mate 3rd Class Naomi Bedford, Aerographer’s Mate Airman Aurora McCoy and Aerographer’s Mate Airman William Coddington were critical to ensuring minimum ceiling requirements were met."

Source: http://www.public.navy.mil/fltfor/cnmoc ... c%2014.pdf (1Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2015, 20:43
by spazsinbad
Over on page 40 of the now very long 'Lakehurst' thread there is a link to this post (in text) that was perhaps overlooked (by me anyways - there was a lot going on at the time)? Here is the link again in case it was missed and worth rerecording on this thread due content:

F-35C Makes First Carrier Traps 03 Nov 2014 SMSgt Mac

http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/ ... traps.html
from:
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=281040&hilit=verily#p281040

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2015, 09:19
by spazsinbad
Some more slomo action for your delectation:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2015, 17:26
by maus92
ALIS still a problem area...


The F-35 Has To Phone Texas Before Taking Off
Patrick Tucker – Defense One January 8, 2015
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=66007


"The U.S. military ran the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter through a series of
tests aboard the USS Nimitz super carrier in San Diego in early November. It
performed adequately, with one exception — it needed to send its diagnostic
data to Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas, before taking off. If the most
recent exercises are any indication, the F-35 may need to phone home every
time it sets out on a mission.

First, the good news. The plane flew through its aerial paces well enough
and passed a majority of its flight tests.

“The test team accomplished 100 percent of the threshold test points and 88
percent of the objective points during deployment, completing 33 test
flights (39.2 flight hours) and 124 arrested landings, of 124 attempts,
including one night flight with two catapult launches and two arrested
landings. The results of the test were still in analysis at this time,”
Pentagon spokesperson Air Force Maj. Eric Badger told Defense One...."

"The possible bad news to emerge from the recent tests is this: The Nimitz
didn’t have the plane’s Autonomic Logistics Information Systems, ALIS, on
board and so the team had to implement a “workaround.” ALIS is the F-35’s
notoriously buggy diagnostic system that can ground fully functional
aircraft. ...."

"ALIS has a rather strained relationship with Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher
Bogdan, the man in charge of the F-35 Program, as Military.com’s Brendan
McGarry reported in February, Bogdan has few kind words for the system.

“ALIS doesn’t always work right and it is not the font of all knowledge
about the airplane because I got maintainers out there who fix the airplane,
I’ve got pilots who go out and pre-fly the airplane, and everyone in the
enterprise thinks the airplane is ready to go except ALIS,” Bogdan told a
defense budget conference. In terms of manual overrides, Bogden said “we
need to start doing that… We can’t do that wholesale, but we need to do that
in a measured way.”

The Nimitz testing team’s “workaround” streamed the plane’s diagnostic data
to technicians at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas. That, in turn,
allowed them “to process the necessary maintenance actions” so the tests
could proceed. ...."

"The Pentagon has not yet said whether the issue that kept all the ALIS
equipment off the Nimitz was related to the difficulty of integrating a
shipping container worth of servers into the ship’s structure, the software
(up to 29 million lines of code and counting for the F-35) or something
else. ..."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2015, 17:39
by KamenRiderBlade
maus92
What do you do for a living, what special skill sets do you have?
Are you a software developer or even some form of engineer?
What's the longest term most complicated project you have ever worked on?

I am a software developer by trade. It takes time to work out bugs in the system. The more complex your software, the longer it'll take to work out bugs. Even after initial releases, there will be software updates, that's the nature of software. You CANNOT and WILLNOT find all bugs before initial release, that is unrealistic and has a < 1% chance of ever happening in the real world.

Everything that the article states is just early teething problems ranging from bugginess in the software to the fact that they haven't figured out a installation process appropriate to the carrier.

These are not outstanding issues, just day to day issues that will be resolved over time.

Again, you're blowing things out of proportion, making every little thing seem far bigger than it really is.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2015, 17:52
by spazsinbad
What a load of old cobblers: that 'Phone Home' shows that the author is just ignorant. Firstly there is a thread about ALIS where this ALIS article should be placed IMHO. However when I first read it I thought it was still a load of cobblers and went to find other articles about ALIS from that time. Firstly the author [needs to do some research] talks about the OLD VERSION of ALIS; because of course a new expeditionary capable version - still under development - has yet to be released, which by other accounts is working much better. But hey let us just dwell in the past, ranting about the old version - quoting an OLDen 60 Minutes - because it was always worse back then eh. Secondly NIMITZ does not have ALIS installed like any other ship (whether it is going to be in a shipping container sized compartment or not) so there is that. Here is the other 'news' about ALIS on NIMITZ. ALIS V 2 is recorded elsewhere as being the version to be used for USMC IOC: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26749&p=283386&hilit=ALIS+peripherals#p283386 & viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8159&p=280276&hilit=ALIS+expeditionary#p280276

INFO about ALIS v. 2: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8159&p=278624&hilit=ALIS#p278624
Lockheed Martin delivers improved ALIS for F-35
17 Sep 2014 Dan Parsons

"...An expeditionary version of the ALIS system is in production to allow the US Navy and Marine Corps to install the system aboard ships. Hardware changes to make the system smaller, more portable and modular were needed for shipboard use. The engineering work to compact the necessary hardware has been completed. Certification testing on the expeditionary system should be complete by March 2015, with deployment in support of the USMC's initial operating capability objective.

The expeditionary version of ALIS will be deployed to all future users as the standard iteration of the system after summer 2015, Horter adds.""

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 35-403800/

Cats, Traps & a Rooster Tail
Dec 2014 Mark Ayton, Air International

"AIR International’s Mark Ayton reports from the USS Nimitz during the F-35C Lightning II’s first carrier suitability development test period referred to as DT I...

...Support Onboard and from Ashore
DT I was supported by a pre-production, nonfleet representative version of the Autonomic Logistics Information System known as ALIS 1.03. According to the F-35 Joint Program Office: “Standard ALIS functions were in place and used to support F-35C operations and maintenance onboard USS Nimitz. The functions were accessible via approved Department of Defense network and cyber security policies and authorisations similar to ALIS support for F-35B STOVL deployments to the USS Wasp (LHD 1).

“In addition, standard operating instructions and procedures were in use to support F-35 operations during situations when ALIS functions were not immediately available. There was a combination of F-35 ITF and Lockheed Martin personnel on board and ashore to support operations aboard USS Nimitz.”

Chief Test Engineer Tom Briggs told AIR International: “ALIS was not fully integrated with the USS Nimitz for this test detachment. However, the test team used the ship’s ability to transmit data to and from the shore in order to link to an ALIS server in Fort Worth. This allowed us to maintain configuration management of the aircraft and to process maintenance activities, such as pre-flight inspections, repairs when necessary, compliance with time-based inspections, and routine post-flight inspections. These are the same basic capabilities for which we use ALIS at our test sites in the SDD portion of the programme.”..."

Source: pp 42-47 Air International Dec 2014

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2015, 20:42
by quicksilver
As Maus well knows, David Martin (his last 60 Minutes piece liberally quoted in the article) mischaracterized ALIS in a number of ways, and cub reporter for this article didnt do enough research to know the difference between the science and the science fiction.

In very simple terms, ALIS aggregates into one system what current aircraft rely on from multiple systems. The functions include maintenance management (to include aircraft health reporting codes), supply chain, and mission planning. Like most current aircraft today , the pilot takes a pre-planned mission data file to the aircraft in a storage device (on some aircraft today it's called a 'brick') transfers that data to the aircraft before/during start-up, and similarly takes that brick out of the jet and back to maintenance control and mission planning when he or she is done. That brick records lotsa stuff from the aircraft and the flight that is downloaded back into the larger database for tracking and future reference.

There's nothing that cosmic about it. Most jets do these things today, they just rely on separate disconnected systems to do it. Martin mistook a laptop-like portable maintenance device used on the flight line for something spooky like an R2D2 (conjures an instant image doesn't it?) and no one corrected the thought.

ALIS cannot physically shut the aircraft down, it cannot "say" no -- it is simply an information system. However, in terms of maintenance practice, by policy, if there are discontinuities between data elements (e.g. part numbers) those discontinuities must be resolved before the aircraft is signed off (by human beings) as "safe for flight." That helps ensure sound aircraft maintenance management.

Has it had some bugs? Yes. But people should understand that the level of performance demanded of it in terms of data fidelity is perfection. It's getting there.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 02:36
by neptune
quicksilver wrote:... Martin mistook a laptop-like portable maintenance device used on the flight line for something spooky like an R2D2 (conjures an instant image doesn't it?) and no one corrected the thought. ...


Sorry, we were to busy laughing! :D

...not an apologist for ALIS we do expect it to be the system that "Prevents" the fire at Eglin. Infant mortality and teething pains aside, ALIS is the system that leads to the future end of A-799 gripes. Anyone that has been in military aviation maintenance and management well understands the necessity of these system integrations and supervisory analysis, ALIS must work!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 03:08
by XanderCrews
maus92 wrote:ALIS still a problem area...


The F-35 Has To Phone Texas Before Taking Off
Patrick Tucker – Defense One January 8, 2015
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=66007


"The U.S. military ran the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter through a series of
tests aboard the USS Nimitz super carrier in San Diego in early November. It
performed adequately, with one exception — it needed to send its diagnostic
data to Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas, before taking off. If the most
recent exercises are any indication, the F-35 may need to phone home every
time it sets out on a mission.

First, the good news. The plane flew through its aerial paces well enough
and passed a majority of its flight tests.

“The test team accomplished 100 percent of the threshold test points and 88
percent of the objective points during deployment, completing 33 test
flights (39.2 flight hours) and 124 arrested landings, of 124 attempts,
including one night flight with two catapult launches and two arrested
landings. The results of the test were still in analysis at this time,”
Pentagon spokesperson Air Force Maj. Eric Badger told Defense One...."

"The possible bad news to emerge from the recent tests is this: The Nimitz
didn’t have the plane’s Autonomic Logistics Information Systems, ALIS, on
board and so the team had to implement a “workaround.” ALIS is the F-35’s
notoriously buggy diagnostic system that can ground fully functional
aircraft. ...."

"ALIS has a rather strained relationship with Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher
Bogdan, the man in charge of the F-35 Program, as Military.com’s Brendan
McGarry reported in February, Bogdan has few kind words for the system.

“ALIS doesn’t always work right and it is not the font of all knowledge
about the airplane because I got maintainers out there who fix the airplane,
I’ve got pilots who go out and pre-fly the airplane, and everyone in the
enterprise thinks the airplane is ready to go except ALIS,” Bogdan told a
defense budget conference. In terms of manual overrides, Bogden said “we
need to start doing that… We can’t do that wholesale, but we need to do that
in a measured way.”

The Nimitz testing team’s “workaround” streamed the plane’s diagnostic data
to technicians at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas. That, in turn,
allowed them “to process the necessary maintenance actions” so the tests
could proceed. ...."

"The Pentagon has not yet said whether the issue that kept all the ALIS
equipment off the Nimitz was related to the difficulty of integrating a
shipping container worth of servers into the ship’s structure, the software
(up to 29 million lines of code and counting for the F-35) or something
else. ..."



clearly an unsolvable problem

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 03:12
by KamenRiderBlade
XanderCrews

Your forgot your <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags, you know most people can't decipher sarcasm via text on the internet

=D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 03:50
by popcorn
neptune wrote:
...not an apologist for ALIS we do expect it to be the system that "Prevents" the fire at Eglin

Do you know for a fact that ALIS' prognostic monitoring is designed to monitor engine rubbing?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 04:53
by spazsinbad
P'raps in future there may be better engine monitoring according to this: [ :mrgreen: as we say in Oz "It's the VIBE!" :devil: ] viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25667&p=283661&hilit=Wayback#p283661
"Vibration-based prognostics and health monitoring (VPHM) technologies enable early identification and isolation of faults in a critical rotating component in the engine and provide a capability for consistently tracking fault progressions...."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 06:07
by spazsinbad
Frum: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-13103.html F-35 PHM [Prognostics & Health Management] Architecture Unprecedented Aircraft Usage Data Capture
F-35 L/ESS – Usage Data Recording
• Over 150 Parameter Time Histories Captured
– Strain Gauge Data
– Accelerations (Rotational & Translational)
– Velocities & Rates (Rotational & Translational)
– Air Data System Parameters (AOA, Mach No., Altitude, etc)
– Control Surface Deflections
– Stores Configurations & Masses
– Fuel Tank States
– Engine Parameters
– Miscellaneous Discrete Parameters (Weight-on-Wheels, Door Positions, etc)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 06:40
by spazsinbad
And... Earlier....: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=16443&p=208781&hilit=footprints#p208781
Core Avionics Master Plan 2012 Appendix A-3 - Navigation 3
07 Sep 2012 frum more PMAs than youse can stick a poke at

...Structural Prognostics and Health Management.
(2015) Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will field Structural Prognostics and Health Management (PHM) capability in support of mission sortie generation/readiness objectives. Wirelessly downloaded parameters will include fuel state, ammunition state, expendables state, and component health conditions requiring maintenance in order to minimize turnaround time. Real time, accurate down-link of specific component conditions supports CBM [Condition Based Maintenance], which will significantly enhance readiness by enabling maintainers to move from time-scheduled removals and inspections to removing items only when required. Removing components only when they have achieved their tolerance limit of safe operations can also return significant cost avoidances by extending the lives of the parts beyond their engineering estimates, thereby reducing the costs of repairs or replacements. CBM may also result in reduced requirements for spares inventories or deployed spare support footprints...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/pma209/_Docu ... _Final.pdf (3.3Mb)

And frum (this info must be part repeated elsewhere in this forum but anyways here it is again): and away we go.....
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=12237&p=197514&hilit=Prognostics#p197514

ENGINE MONITORING FOR DA FUTURE MASSES: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=16646&p=211646&hilit=Prognostics#p211646

Long Screed via 'TEG' from JANES: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=14070&p=176033&hilit=Prognostics#p176033
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - Structural Prognostics and Health Management - An Overview
2009 ICAF Conference Rotterdam; Tim Fallon - JSF Program Office; Devinder Mahal - JSF Program Office; Iain Hebden – BAE Systems

Source: http://icaf2009.fyper.com/uploads/File/ ... Fallon.pdf (3.2Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 12:06
by quicksilver
neptune wrote:
quicksilver wrote:... Martin mistook a laptop-like portable maintenance device used on the flight line for something spooky like an R2D2 (conjures an instant image doesn't it?) and no one corrected the thought. ...


Sorry, we were to busy laughing! :D

...not an apologist for ALIS we do expect it to be the system that "Prevents" the fire at Eglin. Infant mortality and teething pains aside, ALIS is the system that leads to the future end of A-799 gripes. Anyone that has been in military aviation maintenance and management well understands the necessity of these system integrations and supervisory analysis, ALIS must work!


"Prevent the fire" is debatable because to do so would have required a unique condition-based monitoring system (instrumentation) for a rotating metallic structure deep in the engine. Such instrumentation would assume that one believes there is high potential for a specific condition to develop as a consequence of what were routine maneuvers over (aiui) several flights. If one believed in that probability, then one would resolve that potential condition ahead of time, not simply monitor its potential. Am told not even the SDD aircraft (highly, highly instrumented) have that kind of instrumentation.

In short, they cant monitor everything everywhere all the time. And, you dont know what you dont know until you know it. :wink:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:23
by XanderCrews
KamenRiderBlade wrote:XanderCrews

Your forgot your <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags, you know most people can't decipher sarcasm via text on the internet

=D


Oh no I'm 100 percent super cereal on this. Just because the F-35 did a little thing like land on an aircraft carrier flawlessly over and over again after critics bashed if for years, doesn't mean any of it counts now because they have to have an ALIS work around. Might as well not have flown to the boat at all, since the test is now only 99.99 percent success. Its not like they have been using ALIS work arounds for years now anyway.

/SARC/

I mean I hate to use the sledge hammer strategy on this but I'm kind of at the point where its "hey wake me up if there is a problem that means fewer aircraft or the program is canceled" all the rest are details that will get sorted anyway and forgotten by the time people have moved on to the next horrible procurement that will never be as good as the previous thing. Maus can belly ache about how the F/A-XX is being ruined by whatever

If you don't believe me take a good look at what the Super Hornet development looked like. Now of course all its issues are long forgotten and its the clear F-35 rival, because it never had problems in test. No sir. Didn't need NASA and 3 years to fix the abrupt wing stall or anything. Didn't have the GAO recommending it get scrapped entirely. nope.

If Canada withdraws, call me. If someone starts curtailing their orders, call me, but things like "ZOMG, had to check with Ft Worth for some stuff" get outta here. I didn't expect Nimitz being the oldest CVN in the fleet to be fully stocked with a fully operational ALIS. There were also LM employess there which kind of hinted that there was going to be contractor involvement. You know, in the FBI they would call that a "clue"

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:45
by KamenRiderBlade
XanderCrews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXYWLWx0-S0

This might help explain how Maus and the others believe there is some sort of conspiracy out there with the F-35.

It's not directly related to the F-35, but analyzes the Conspiracy Mentality and how they might constantly believe in it.

Of course this relates to how the F-35 is SOOO horrible in the mind of Maus and others like him despite overwhelming evidence that the F-35 is doing fine.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 17:59
by spazsinbad
Perhaps no one realises that NIMITZ is on LAST LEGS anyway. Sheesh. She cannot even go the distance to get fixed for 16 months these days. Don't know what I mean? Those DAMN F-35Cs Musta Dun It! Go here:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015 ... 338&rank=3

<SARC OFF> I guess she'll be modified during this maintenance period to better receive the Cees?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 18:52
by neptune
[quote="quicksilver.."Prevent the fire" is debatable because to do so would have required a unique condition-based monitoring system (instrumentation) for a rotating metallic structure deep in the engine. ..[/quote]

...we all are allowed an opinion, having designed and operated predictive/ incipient detection systems of aviation derived gas turbines, this system requires and probably has less than 6 sensors each smaller than a dime. :)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 23:23
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:Perhaps no one realises that NIMITZ is on LAST LEGS anyway...


....the rowers mutinied again, they're out looking for new slaves...... :D

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2015, 00:29
by quicksilver
neptune wrote:[quote="quicksilver.."Prevent the fire" is debatable because to do so would have required a unique condition-based monitoring system (instrumentation) for a rotating metallic structure deep in the engine. ..


...we all are allowed an opinion, having designed and operated predictive/ incipient detection systems of aviation derived gas turbines, this system requires and probably has less than 6 sensors each smaller than a dime. :)[/quote]

I assume you understand that the fire was not the problem; the structural failure was...

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2015, 05:14
by maus92
It's pretty clear that a module of ALIS maintains a comprehensive record of each aircraft's operational and mx history, including g-forces experienced by the airframe on every flight. There is a history of large bore commercial engine casings deflecting under certain loads, and seeing how quickly Pratt and the PO zeroed in on the problem area, I'm pretty sure they a good idea where to look for anomalies. It is unclear if the F135 has temperature / vibration / rotational sensors or strain gauges specifically embedded or directly measuring parameters in the fan stage that had the failure, but it seems they were able to at least extrapolate what was needed to confirm the frictional heating that lead to the fracturing of fan blades. It doesn't appear that the data collected and analyzed by ALIS could have predicted the failure, but perhaps ALIS will be updated with an algorithm that can, and additional sensors added to the F135 as required.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2015, 19:06
by smsgtmac
XanderCrews wrote:
maus92 wrote:ALIS still a problem area...


The F-35 Has To Phone Texas Before Taking Off
Patrick Tucker – Defense One January 8, 2015
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=66007


"The U.S. military ran the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter through a series of
tests aboard the USS Nimitz super carrier in San Diego in early November. It
performed adequately, with one exception — it needed to send its diagnostic
data to Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas, before taking off. If the most
recent exercises are any indication, the F-35 may need to phone home every
time it sets out on a mission.

First, the good news. The plane flew through its aerial paces well enough
and passed a majority of its flight tests.

“The test team accomplished 100 percent of the threshold test points and 88
percent of the objective points during deployment, completing 33 test
flights (39.2 flight hours) and 124 arrested landings, of 124 attempts,
including one night flight with two catapult launches and two arrested
landings. The results of the test were still in analysis at this time,”
Pentagon spokesperson Air Force Maj. Eric Badger told Defense One...."

"The possible bad news to emerge from the recent tests is this: The Nimitz
didn’t have the plane’s Autonomic Logistics Information Systems, ALIS, on
board and so the team had to implement a “workaround.” ALIS is the F-35’s
notoriously buggy diagnostic system that can ground fully functional
aircraft. ...."

"ALIS has a rather strained relationship with Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher
Bogdan, the man in charge of the F-35 Program, as Military.com’s Brendan
McGarry reported in February, Bogdan has few kind words for the system.

“ALIS doesn’t always work right and it is not the font of all knowledge
about the airplane because I got maintainers out there who fix the airplane,
I’ve got pilots who go out and pre-fly the airplane, and everyone in the
enterprise thinks the airplane is ready to go except ALIS,” Bogdan told a
defense budget conference. In terms of manual overrides, Bogden said “we
need to start doing that… We can’t do that wholesale, but we need to do that
in a measured way.”

The Nimitz testing team’s “workaround” streamed the plane’s diagnostic data
to technicians at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas. That, in turn,
allowed them “to process the necessary maintenance actions” so the tests
could proceed. ...."

"The Pentagon has not yet said whether the issue that kept all the ALIS
equipment off the Nimitz was related to the difficulty of integrating a
shipping container worth of servers into the ship’s structure, the software
(up to 29 million lines of code and counting for the F-35) or something
else. ..."



clearly an unsolvable problem

This article has a bit part in wrapping up a post I am now prioritizing to have up late tonight. The guy who wrote the article is at least a 'Pawn' of the Faux Reform crowd, and may have been assigned to the story at the behest of a 'Loyal Babbler'. The post would have already been up, except that unlike these kind of 'articles' I did some research and analysis first.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Jan 2015, 22:14
by eskodas
smsgtmac wrote:This article has a bit part in wrapping up a post I am now prioritizing to have up late tonight. The guy who wrote the article is at least a 'Pawn' of the Faux Reform crowd, and may have been assigned to the story at the behest of a 'Loyal Babbler'. The post would have already been up, except that unlike these kind of 'articles' I did some research and analysis first.


I'm now excited, always enjoy your posts, so much information and sources to read!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Jan 2015, 03:21
by arrow-nautics


No more F-35 gravy!

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Jan 2015, 03:49
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: 'Now he nose'? That is just sick. :devil:

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Jan 2015, 22:08
by spazsinbad
A LONG DETAILED article at the JUMP where it is best read there. However the excerpts below are relevant to this thread especially the next CVN test period along with ALIS v.2.0 and stuff. HoKay?
Important Tests Loom for Navy and Marine Corps F-35
Feb 2015 Valerie Insinna

"The Navy and Marine Corps variants of the joint strike fighter have an eventful year ahead, and program officials are saddled with a long list of work to do before major milestones in the summer....

...Donnelly [a defense and security policy analyst at the American Enterprise Institute]. The Marine Corps and Navy have many ways of taking down a target. What they need is a platform capable of penetrating enemy air defenses.
“Who cares about the gun?” he said. “I think this is going to end up being employed much less as a strike platform and more as, basically, an armed scout that’s stealthy and very operationally flexible.”...

...[the Eglin AFB fire in June 2014] delayed flight testing by 45 days. “I thought I was going to be done on the 10th of December with all flight testing … I’m now projecting that date to be around 30 January,” Bogdan said. That puts pressure on certifying that the fighter is capable of flying its full flight envelope because those 45 days would have acted as a buffer in case more data needed to be collected.

Those tests also are vital for validating the 2B software to be installed on the 10 Marine Corps planes slated for fielding in July, Tomassetti said. Software installation was originally scheduled for November, but is now planned to begin in February.

The Marine Corps will need the 2B software to deploy the F-35 in combat. Without it, the joint strike fighter cannot release its internally-stored weapons, he said.

“More than giving you brand new capabilities, it gives you depth in some of the capability that already exists. It allows additional capabilities in the radar and some of the other sensors in the airplane,” as well as in its data links, he said.

But before the Marine Corps can install 2B and use some of the software’s new features, it must finish flight testing the newest version of the F-35’s logistics and maintenance program and deliver it to the operational fleet, Tomassetti said. Although operators and maintainers can run an old version of the autonomic logistics information system, or ALIS, with 2B software, ALIS 2.0 enables diagnostic capabilities not available with the earlier system. ALIS 2.0 began flight tests last year at Edwards Air Force Base in California.

“Some of the mission planning stuff, because you have new capabilities in 2B, you need a new ALIS version to really take advantage of that,” he said. “It allows us to really maximize what you really get with the 2B software loaded in the airplane.”

A smaller, 200-pound ALIS system capable of being carried by a deployed Marine squadron will also be made available to the service for IOC in July, he said.


The Marine Corps is not the only sea service with major F-35 milestones on the horizon. Although the Navy will be the last service to field the platform, officials are under pressure to ready the C-model for sea trials aboard the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower in August, said Jim Gigliotti, Lockheed’s F-35C program manager. Last November, the fighter completed its first round of carrier-based testing aboard the USS Nimitz three days ahead of schedule, with test pilots executing 124 catapults, 222 touch-and-go landings and 124 arrested landings, according to Navy information.

“We have to do a significant amount of build up yet again for our next carrier evolution,” Gigliotti said. “That will involve expanded envelopes of the aircraft, as well as now we’re going to start carrying internal weapons.”

To expand the jet’s flight envelope, Lockheed and the joint program office will fly the aircraft in non-conformal conditions, such as high angles of attack, high gravity and with a wet runway. It also will test different weapons configurations, including externally stored munitions, and validate that the F-35 can release weapons safely in various conditions, he said.


Donnelly, an F-35 defender, said it will take four or five years after IOC for the services to understand what the F-35 can bring to the table and how to best use it.

“I predict that, in a few years, instead of a president asking where the carriers are or how many B-2s he can get up … the go to crisis response force will be Marine Corps [amphibious ships] with F-35s on them,” he said...."

Source: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... omfor.aspx

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Jan 2015, 05:20
by spazsinbad
On page 17 of this thread are some bits about the supposed 'lukewarmness of USN to F-35C being contradicted by Admirables' [ viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=281971&hilit=dispel#p281971 ] well here is anotherie:
UPDATE 2-F-35 jet is said to be on track to meet US combat use targets
15 Jan 2015 Andrea Shalal

"...Mabus [Navy Secretary] said the Navy still expected to declare the F-35 C-model, which is designed for use on aircraft carriers, ready for combat use by the end of the decade, as planned. The Navy tested the F-35C on board a ship for the first time in November.

"We're not lukewarm about the F-35 in terms of the need for it in the fleet, and the fact that it's going to form the backbone of our carrier air for a long time," he said.

Mabus said the Navy was also assessing whether it needed more EA-18G Growler electronic attack planes built by Boeing Co , since it was now the only military service providing that capability...."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/ ... ZY20150115

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 09:48
by spazsinbad
Elsewhere today there is a thread about the accomplishments recently - among them is this relevant item - worth repeating here:
F-35 Continues on Path Toward Full Weapons Certification
16 Jan 2015 F-35 News

"... · F-35C set a record for 17 sorties in a day for a single F-35 aircraft (Nov.5) and a record 22 sorties with F-35C aircraft CF-3 and CF-5 combined aboard USS Nimitz for F-35C Sea Trials off the coast of San Diego (Nov. 3-14)..."

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35-co ... tification

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 05:37
by spazsinbad
From the latest DOTE report (I'll post more from it later) here is the news - NO ALIS on NIMITZ: :doh:
FY 14 DOD PROGRAMS F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
Jan 2015 UNK

"...No ALIS equipment was installed on the carrier. The test team created a network connection from the ship to the major contractor in Fort Worth to process necessary maintenance actions....

Air-Ship Integration and Ship Suitability Testing - F-35C
• The program began testing the redesigned arresting hook system on aircraft CF-3 at Patuxent River Naval Air Station in February 2014. This test aircraft is modified with unique instrumentation to monitor loads on the arresting hook system and the nose landing gear for catapult launches and arrested landings. The structural survey testing was a pre-requisite for initial carrier sea trials.

- Testing encountered significant delays, as numerous deficiencies were discovered, some requiring new engineering designs. Testing was planned to be completed in July, to support deployment to a CVN for the first set of sea trials. The following problems caused delays:

▪ In February, a hydraulic leak in the nose landing gear steering motor, caused by over-pressurization, required a redesigned valve and halted testing for 10 weeks.

▪ Excessive galling of the arresting hook pitch pivot pin, which required a redesigned pin made of titanium and additional inspections after each landing.

▪ Damage to the nose landing gear shock strut, which required down time for repair - The structural testing was partially completed in two phases, all on CF-3.

▪ Phase one completed September 10, 2014, and consisted of 24 test points needed to clear a monitored envelope for carrier landings. Completion of phase one was necessary for CF-3 to conduct landings on a CVN in November.

▪ Phase two consists of 20 additional test points to clear an unmonitored envelope for carrier landings. Completion of phase two testing would allow non-loads instrumented test aircraft to conduct landings on a CVN. Phase two work was ceased on September 25, with 17 of 20 phase two test points completed, but the program waived the remaining three test points to allow CF-5 to participate in DT-1.

• Carrier-based ship suitability testing is divided into three phases.

- The first phase, DT-1, consisted of initial sea trials to examine the compatibility of F-35C with a CVN class ship and to assess initial carrier take-off and landing envelopes with steady deck conditions. DT-1 was conducted November 3–15, 2014; it was initially scheduled to begin in July.

▪ Testers accomplished 100 percent of the threshold test points and 88 percent of the objective points during deployment, completing 33 test flights (39.2 flight hours) and 124 arrested landings, of 124 attempts, including one night flight with two catapult launches and two arrested landings. The results of the test were still in analysis at the time of this report.

▪ No other aircraft deployed to the carrier, except transient aircraft needed for logistical support. All landings were flown without the aid of the Joint Precision Approach Landing System, which is planned for integration on the F-35C in Block 3F. No ALIS equipment was installed on the carrier. The test team created a network connection from the ship to the major contractor in Fort Worth to process necessary maintenance actions.

- The second and third phases, DT-2 and DT-3, consist of ship-borne operations with an expanded envelope (e.g., nighttime approaches, higher sea states than observed in DT-1, if available, and asymmetrical external stores loading). DT-2, which is currently planned for August 2015, will expand the carrier operating envelope. The third set of sea trials is planned for CY16.

• The Navy is working on the following air-ship integration issues, primarily for carriers. Each of the following integration issues also applies to F-35B on L-class ships, with the exception of Jet Blast Deflectors (JBDs):

- Due to the higher temperature of F-35 engine exhaust compared to legacy aircraft, carrier JBDs need at least two modifications. A cooling water orifice modification enables basic operations, but additional side panel cooling must be added for higher afterburner thrust catapult launches. The Navy is accomplishing these full modifications on at least some JBDs on USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) in preparation for IOT&E and on USS George Bush (CVN-77) for developmental testing, and performed the basic orifice modification on USS Nimitz (CVN-68) for the November DT-1.

- The Lockheed Martin-developed F-35 ejection seat dolly failed Critical Design Review. The F-35 ejection seat has a higher center of gravity than legacy seats due to supports for the helmet-mounted display, and in the shipboard environment needs to be securely tied down in case of rolling motion from high sea states. The Navy is investigating developing less expensive adapters to the current ejection seat dolly, and determining what seat shop modifications (if any) will be required to safely tie down the dolly when a seat is installed.

- Two separate methods for shipboard aircraft firefighting for the F-35 with ordnance in the weapon bays are being developed, one for doors open and one for doors closed. Each will consist of an adapter that can fit to the nozzle of a standard hose. The open door adapter will also attach to a 24-foot aircraft tow bar so firefighters can slide it underneath the aircraft and spray cooling water up into the bay.

▪ Testing of a prototype open bay adapter was conducted in October and included use on an AV-8B hulk, propane fires, and JP-8 pool fires, as well as assessing ordnance cooling effectiveness. Mobility tests of the rig were also performed on CVN and L-class non-skid, asphalt, grass, dirt, and rough terrain. All tests indicate that the adapter provides sufficient access to the bay for water spray, and featured sufficient ease of use to place the adapter where needed quickly in all environments.

▪ The closed door adapter will consist of a penetrating device to punch through the fuselage’s carbon fiber skin, secure in place, and hold when water pressure is applied so deck personnel can then back away from the fire. The Navy also plans to test closed bay door firefighting testing of on-aircraft lithium ion battery fires.

- Work on noise abatement during launch and recovery continues. The Navy is installing sound dampening material in the highest noise level areas for flight operations on the USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) during its nuclear refueling and overhaul, and the Office of Naval Research (ONR) will analyze effectiveness compared to untreated ships. This effort will not involve treatment of all work areas, however, and may not be sufficient to allow conversational-level speech in every mission planning space during flight operations.

- The need for improved flight deck hearing protection is not limited to the F-35, as the F-35 and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet produce similar maximum ground noise in afterburner (149 decibels for the F-35 and 150 decibels for the Super Hornet).

▪ Based on an assumed F-35 noise environment of 149 decibels when in maximum thrust where personnel are normally located, 53 decibels of attenuation is required to enable 38 minutes of exposure to this worst-case noise per day before long-term hearing loss ensues. This is estimated to be equivalent to 60 launches and 60 recoveries.

▪ Current expected performance for triple hearing protection only reaches into the mid 40’s decibels of attenuation though, which enables less than 10 minutes exposure to maximum noise before the daily limit is reached. Workarounds may include re-positioning launch crew personnel and tighter administrative controls for exposure times.

- The unique Integrated Power Package (IPP), and high-speed/low-thrust engine turn capability for maintenance on the F-35, may introduce new concerns for hangar bay maintenance. The Navy plans to investigate the impact of IPP exhaust emissions on hangar bay atmosphere, exhaust temperature, and the noise environment produced, to determine acceptable hangar bay maintenance practices. No IPP or engine turns were conducted during the DT-1 sea trials...."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 06:09
by SpudmanWP
spazsinbad wrote:From the latest DOTE report (I'll post more from it later) here is the news - NO ALIS on NIMITZ: :doh:


We already knew that about the DT-1 for the F-35C

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 06:30
by spazsinbad
Yep - just re-inforcing that point - perhaps unnecessarily I will agree.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 06:39
by spazsinbad
FY 14 DOD PROGRAMS F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
Jan 2015 UNK

"...F-35C Flight Sciences
Flight Test Activity with CF-1, CF-2, CF-3, and CF-5 Test Aircraft

• F-35C flight sciences focused on:

- Structural survey testing of the newly designed arrestingb hook system (This testing was a pre-requisite for the first developmental testing period aboard an aircraft carrier, referred to as DT-1, which was conducted in November 2014.)...

...• The program modified CF-3 and CF-5 with the new arresting hook system and modified nose landing gear, which was necessary to prepare for and accomplish the first set of ship trials, completed in November....

... • Weight management is important for meeting air vehicle performance requirements, including the KPP for recovery approach speed to the aircraft carrier, and structural life expectations. These estimates are based on measured weights of components and subassemblies, calculated weights from approved design drawings released for build, and estimated weights of remaining components. These estimates are used to project the weight of the first Lot 8 F-35C aircraft (CF-28), planned for delivery in April 2016, which will be the basis for evaluating contract specification compliance for aircraft weight.

- The weight reports show that the program has reduced weight by 62 pounds in CY14 (from January to October estimate). The current estimate of 34,519 pounds is 349 pounds (1 percent) below the planned not-to-exceed weight.

- The program has demonstrated positive weight management of the F-35C over the past 38 months, showing a net loss of 103 pounds in the estimates from August 2011 to October 2014. The program will need to ensure the actual aircraft weight meets predictions and continue rigorous management of the actual aircraft weight beyond the technical performance measurements of contract specification in CY16 through the balance of SDD to avoid performance degradation that would affect operational capability...."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 14:36
by spazsinbad
Just for the heck of it because I'm intrigued by it all - VIA SMSgt Mac blog [ http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com.au/ ... elers.html ] at the top of the previous page 20 there is a long post from Patrick Tucker via 'maus92' about 'the F-35C foning Texas from NIMITZ' - this article at original URL has been amended thusly:
The F-35 Has To Phone Texas Before Taking Off
08 Jan 2014 Patrick Tucker

"...Update:
Joe DellaVedova, Public Affairs Director F-35 Lightning II Joint Program Office contacted Defense One about this story. He says that while previous versions of ALIS did not allow for a human override, ”this has been corrected in the latest fielded release (ALIS 1.0.3).”

He adds: “ALIS continues to mature per its development roadmap and we currently have it installed aboard the USS Wasp today to support of an operational test and evaluation of the F-35B air system which will happen this spring. There is also a more portable, modularized version of the ALIS Standard Operating Unit server for shipboard and expeditionary operations that is currently in final integration and test. This version will support the U.S. Marine Corps initial operating capability later this year.”

Source: http://www.defenseone.com/technology/20 ... ng/102525/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Feb 2015, 08:02
by spazsinbad
This thread has info about 'how well liked the F-35C is' so why not continue that tradition - you know you want to... :doh:
Ex-Navy air boss: F-35s 'essential' for carrier air wings
15 Feb 2015 Mark D. Faram

"Retiring Vice Adm. David H. Buss, who stepped down as the Navy's "air boss" Jan. 22, has guided the Navy's F-35C Lightning II through some difficult times.

But he insists the controversial next-generation fighter jet is now well on its way to becoming operational and, more than that, is essential to the future of carrier air wings.

"I'm very happy with where we are with the program now," Buss said during an interview at his office at Naval Air Station North Island in San Diego, shortly before stepping down.

"We still have some work to do with regard to the elements that must come into place for the Navy to reach initial operating capability with the F-35C in 2018," he said. "But I'm very happy with where we are after a very successful two-week at sea period [n November] We ended up with 124 traps and 124 cat shots and about 250 or so touch-and-go's as well."

The aircraft accomplished tasks that its predecessors, the F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets, did not, he said.

"We got to operate the two aircraft we had on board in a variety of envelopes and even got to night operations," Buss said. "The night catapults and traps — which we didn't do in the initial developmental test programs for either the F-18 or the Super Hornet — show you we've made very, very good progress."

And the re-designed tailhook — a primary factor contributing to the delay in getting the F-35 its first traps at sea — was a non-issue.

There were "absolutely no issues out on board," he said.

By the end of the testing, it was clear the aircraft is fit for carrier duty and is well-liked by pilots and deck crews.

The pilots, Buss said, called the F-35C "very, very easy, very user friendly or pilot friendly to fly on and off the ship."

The aircraft handlers said the aircraft was "just like any other aircraft" to maneuver around the flight and hanger decks, he said, "music to your ears, from an integration standpoint."...

..."The first fleet squadron will form in 2018 as we reach IOC, and then deploy at some point after that," Buss said. "We'll likely transition a squadron that's already existing at Lemoore — which specific squadron I'm not prepared to talk about today because, with aircraft delivery schedules and squadron operational schedules, that patch could change several times before it happens."...

Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/story/mili ... /23142875/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 03:10
by spazsinbad
Sea Trial for F-35B to Precede Initial Operational Capability
18 Feb 2015 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"...The Navy’s carrier-based F-35C version also will return to sea this year, with Developmental Test-2 scheduled for the third quarter, probably in August, onboard the aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower. Developmental Test -3 will be conducted during the third quarter of 2016.

IOC for the F-35C is scheduled for the third quarter of 2018."

Source: http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... 8-f35.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 05:49
by XanderCrews
spazsinbad wrote:This thread has info about 'how well liked the F-35C is' ]


Has the navy gone from Turquoise to Magenta on its mood ring?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 06:05
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: I think their 'ring of fire' just "burns burns burns... their ring of fire, their ring of fire..." (think Johnny Cash). :devil:

Funnily enuf - to some - the WHO song "Magic Bus" (fink Admirable BUSS) has this lyric phrase "I don't care how much I pay... ...I want it I want it I want it I want it..." boring huh. :doh:


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 17:55
by blindpilot
Hmmm you do realize that Roger Daitrey is like turning 71 years old in a few days and that this reference is not exactly making you look young and hip right?

The younger posters here are going to say "Who?"

Think young Spaz! Surely you can pull an example from the 80's!

:D :o

BP

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 18:28
by spazsinbad
Heheh. I was SO OLD in the Late Seventies that I SLEPT right thru the DISCO era. http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/hist ... isco-music

I coulda gone with Marilyn Manson "Are You Mofo Reddy for the NEW SHITE" 2003 but I think I referenced that song a very long time ago on this forum - but IF NOT - go here: [for Woids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppfzn5BBfiQ ]
"...Do we get it [as in "do we understand it"]? NO! Do we want it? YEAH!..."


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2015, 12:40
by spazsinbad
I used to be a choir boy - honest - but then I went NavAv. So I can swear like a TROOPer and not even know it. Typing is such a relief because this forum XSXS out the bad stuff. Anyhoo here is some good stuff - fooled ya.
The Navy says it needs more tactical and strike aircraft on aircraft carriers
24 Feb 2015 Andrea Shalal

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Navy remains committed to its plans to buy the carrier-based variant of Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-35 fighter jet and declare it ready for initial combat use by 2018, Vice Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Michelle Howard said on Tuesday.

Howard said there was no doubt the Navy would need tactical and strike aircraft based on aircraft carriers, and it was counting on the F-35 Lightning II to carry out that mission.

Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert said earlier this month that the next fighter after the F-35 would likely rely less on speed and stealth than current aircraft, saying “stealth may be overrated.”

His remarks revived lingering questions about the Navy’s commitment to the $US400 billion F-35 program, especially given its continued support for Boeing Co’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and its electronic attack variant, the EA-18G, which are both due to end production after 2017.

“We do intend to pursue Lightning II. Absolutely,” Howard told a conference hosted by the New America Foundation and the Arizona State University’s Center on the Future of War...."

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/r-sen ... ane-2015-2

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2015, 22:22
by spazsinbad
Forgive me but I started a thing wherein 'positive' quotes about the F-35C are in this thread - usually cobbled from other threads - so here is anotherie (sigh):
Pentagon Launches Electronic Warfare Study: Growler Line At Stake
27 Feb 2015 Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.

"...Traditionally, pundits have pitted the Super Hornet and its Growler variant against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Navy has always been the least enthusiastic of the three services buying the JSF, expressing deep doubts about the long-term value of stealth, but Thursday Greenert took pains to emphasize stealth wasn’t the only thing the F-35 had going.

“It’s not just stealth, it’s so much more,” he told the subcommittee. “It’s got tremendous range — you almost double the range from an aircraft carrier; [it] carries more ordnance; [it] has a detection radar for air-to-air which is much advanced, and it can network with other aircraft and other assets, ships and the like. [It can] jam and detect and share information…..Each of those is a tremendous leap unto itself.”

That doesn’t sound like someone eager to sacrifice F-35s to buy more Super Hornets and Growlers.
..."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/02/pent ... -at-stake/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 12:30
by spazsinbad
A bitta dis and a bitta dat for the F-35 from the talking heads:
Mabus on Ford-class Carrier: ‘Not the Way to Build a Ship’
10 Mar 2015 RICHARD R. BURGESS

"...On other topics, Marine Corps Commandant Gen Joseph F. Dunford Jr. and ADM Jonathan W. Greenert, chief of naval operations, testified that the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter was on track for initial operational capability (IOC) in their respective services.

“I’m confident we’re on path to bring that aircraft to IOC [this summer],” Dunford said.

“We had our carrier tests this summer,” Greenert said. ‘The tailhook was certified. We had no bolters [missed landings]. We still have a way to go with the 3F software. Right now we’re on track for an IOC of late fiscal year 2018 or early 2019. My concern is that the software is able to integrate all of the weapons systems that we have on the current aircraft in our air wings.

This aircraft has to fit into our air wing,” he said. “We can’t fit the air wing around the aircraft. So far, so good. We have to keep really close watch on it.”..."

Source: http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... -sasc.html

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Mar 2015, 15:48
by spazsinbad
All the way with Manazir...
US Navy Details New Strike Fighter Need
13 Mar 2015 Christopher P. Cavas

"WASHINGTON — It's been only two years since the US Navy quit buying F/A-18 Super Hornet strike fighters — part of a long-planned transition to the F-35C joint strike fighter — but a confluence of events has led to the new possibility that more attack aircraft could be ordered from Boeing....

...The Navy in 2012 surveyed its strike fighter inventory to assess the problem. "We looked at the inventory challenges," said Rear Adm. Mike Manazir, the Navy's director of air warfare. "SLEP 150 F/A-18Cs and buy 41 Es and Fs."

"As we pushed JSF outside to the right — this latest budget moved 16 outside the FYDP [future years defense plan] — I'm not making up those aircraft." Over the past three years, Manazir said, a total of 159 F-35C carrier variant and F-35B Marine jump jets have been moved out of the FYDP.

Assuming the air fleet keeps flying at about 330 hours a year per airplane, he said, "from 2020 to 2035, I need to be buying about 30 to 39 aircraft per year to replace" older, worn-out aircraft. "It's a product of supply and demand."...

...Some observers look at a Navy effort to keep buying Boeing F/A-18s as an indication the service is soft on support for the Lockheed Martin F-35. Manazir insists there is no truth to that.

"There is no move here to not buy something," he declared. "In order for me to win in 2024 I have to have F-35Cs flying with F-18Es and Fs. I have to. And I have to be able to fill my air wings out.

"I am trying to get rid of the myth that all the Navy wants to do is continue F-18 Es and Fs. If I only have F-18 Es and Fs in 2024 I can't win. I have to have a number of F-35C squadrons."

"What I try to do is avoid — because it's not true — the F-18 Boeing versus the Lockheed Martin F-35" story line, he said. "Because for the United States Navy, it's not all about getting the F-35, it's about getting the integrated capabilities of the high-end war fight, which takes the F-18 E/F and the F-35C. It takes them both."...

..."If I reduce my risk through that procurement that he testified to, and I can extend my 18Es and Fs to the plan that I'm going to now, and I'm going to procure F-35Cs to the tune of 20 per year starting in 2020, I've reduced my risk to a manageable level. And that's my entire cohesive plan going forward."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /70243170/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 13 Mar 2015, 16:21
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:.... "SLEP 150 F/A-18Cs and buy 41 Es and Fs."... "In order for me to win in 2024 I have to have F-35Cs flying with F-18Es and Fs. I have to. And I have to be able to fill my air wings out..


I understand the JSF and the SBug in the mutal support roles. What I have difficulty with is the mechanics of the numbers with the cycling of the generations of a/c technology that will continue with the F/A-XX as it begins to replace the SBug with the future "new" technologies. This ramping up and ramping down of the cycles of the two types and the swapping of the roles from lead to follow ("Star Trek Super Star" to "scut" worker) is a little vague. I believe the SBug mafia is in the same boat, as I. Now that the Navy is nearly down to the two a/c types (Hornets, SBugs, JSF), obviously they must have the a/c numbers to fill the task orders or not be able to succeed. :?

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 24 Mar 2015, 05:25
by spazsinbad
Some more FeelGood from the new AirBoss about F-35s and V-22s...
Air boss focusing on training, safety and new tech
23 Mar 2015 Meghann Myers, Staff writer

"NAVAL AIR STATION NORTH ISLAND, CALIF. — It falls to the new air boss to manage an aviation fleet that is sundowning old platforms, and developing and fielding new platforms, from the stealth fighter to the next-generation aircraft carrier Gerald R. Ford, all while balancing training and deployment schedules.

Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker, a career pilot who took the helm of Naval Air Forces on Jan. 22, sat down with Navy Times Feb. 26 to talk about the aviation force. Questions and answers have been edited for brevity.

Q. How will the F-35's capabilities mix in with the carrier wing?
A.
You cannot have all high-tech stuff. But if you mix the two — the JSF and Super Hornet — together with some of the other capabilities, with E-2D [Advanced Hawkeye], some of the things that our surface ships are bringing in terms of an ability to integrate everybody in a tactical network, the [F-35C] Lightning II will be one of the most critical [tools] we'll have, and we would like to get that as soon as we can in the fleet.

Q. The chief of naval operations said recently he thought stealth might be overrated in future fighter jets. Do you agree?
A.
There is a place for stealth and I think it gives you some capabilities to operate in environments. And I think his point was, there's some things that future adversaries coming up ways to maybe detect stealth. Well, if you combine stealth with some of our other platforms like the [EA-18G] Growler in particular and if you look back in our history there is not many of what we call stealth platforms that would go anywhere unaccompanied. We provide an advanced airborne electronic attack in almost every case. Because we look at contingency ops and things like that.

Q. What's the plan for the new carrier onboard delivery aircraft?
A.
We are working through that right now. We will introduce the new [V-22] Ospreys into the fleet around the turn of the [decade], right around 2020 or so, and they will replace our old [C-2A] Greyhound community. Now our intention is to keep that mission. It will be those Navy pilots who are very experienced at that kind of global logistics mission. They have that down and we want to keep that expertise. So those pilots will transition. We will figure out how that will work right now.

Obviously, we will piggyback initially, on the Marines and their training program with Osprey and then look to branch out from there. But we will man those detachments, very similar concept as we do right now with the CODs and we have two main squads that we send detachments for on each of the air wings from there. It will be a Navy mission ... but I think there will be some synergies between the two, learning from what the Marines have done with Osprey right now...."

Source: http://www.navytimes.com/story/military ... 8/24694517

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 23:28
by spazsinbad
A look at recent testing with an emphasis on the NIMITZ DT-I with some added details from other testing (climate) from Aerospace Testing International APRIL 2015 four PDF pages. Author: "Sylvia Pierson is the F-35 Lightning II Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) public affairs officer."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 09 Apr 2015, 15:06
by spazsinbad
NAVAIR Airwaves: 2014 Year in review
Published on Jan 8, 2015 NAVAIRSYSCOM

"From carrier landing firsts to technological innovations to unmanned aviation milestones, check out NAVAIR's 2014 year in review!"


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 10 Apr 2015, 12:49
by spazsinbad
Looked for a better quality video version of this one (available as a poor quality .WMV from JSF.mil) but no joy so anyhoo:

F-35B/C 2014 Year Review ITF NAS Patuxent River


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 14 Apr 2015, 08:24
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: Just a gentle reminder about the F-35C flying qualities 'behind the boat' :devil: (IT IS A FRICKIN' CARRIER PEOPLE!) :doh: :mrgreen: so behind the ship/carrier (of aircraft if youse will) then here is a snippy bit from AroundTheTableWEST 2014 and how LESS FLCP gives more time for other enjoyments and of course of course the FNGs (sprogs) get more OK 3s etc etc.... :roll:

IDLC AUTO Approach F-35C Std RndTable WEST 2014


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Apr 2015, 02:27
by spazsinbad
Wanna be an LSO? Go here: http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=5285

New outlook for Landing Signal Officer trainers 14 Mar 2013


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 16 Apr 2015, 00:13
by spazsinbad
J. MICHAEL GILMORE; DIRECTOR, OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
BEFORE THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICE COMMITTEE; TACTICAL AIR AND LAND FORCES SUBCOMMITTEE

05 Apr 2015 J.M.GilligansIsland

"...For the F-35C, carrier-based ship suitability testing is divided into three phases. The first phase, DT-1, consisted of initial sea trials to examine the compatibility of F-35C with a CVN class ship and to assess initial carrier take-off and landing envelopes with steady deck conditions, a subset of the operational environment to be explored in future testing. DT-1 was conducted November 3 - 15, 2014; it was initially scheduled to begin in July. During DT-1, the test team completed 33 test flights (39.2 flight hours) and 124 arrested landings, of 124 attempts, including one night flight with two catapult launches and two arrested landings. No other aircraft deployed to the carrier, except transient aircraft needed for logistical support. All landings were flown without the aid of the Joint Precision Approach Landing System, which is planned for integration on the F-35C in Block 3F. No ALIS equipment was installed on the carrier. Instead, the test team created a network connection from the ship to the major contractor in Fort Worth to process necessary maintenance actions. The program expects to release a formal test report in March. The second and third phases, DT-2 and DT-3, consist of ship-borne operations with an expanded envelope, e.g., night-time approaches, higher sea states than observed in DT-1 (if available), and asymmetrical external stores loading. DT-2 is currently planned for August 2015 and will expand the carrier operating envelope and include engine maintenance operations below deck, but likely with the same “reach back” ALIS architecture used for DT-1. The third set of sea trials is planned for CY16 and will be the first trials with ALIS on the ship...."

Source: http://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS25/ ... 150414.pdf (0.3Mb)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 18 Apr 2015, 14:22
by spazsinbad
LSOs in their bright NIGHTies! Otherwise B n C night OPs where ever. 'Voodoo Chile' by Jimi Hendrix is the intro/outro.
"Well, I stand up next to a mountain | And I chop it down with the edge of my hand...."


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 07:13
by spazsinbad
Some may remember that way back when the first F-35C launched at night there was discussion about the 'fuel fire' left behind which was actually the DECK lights for nosewheel attaching on deck caught in the swirling steam etc. Have not seen a good photo of this 'nw light' until today - so here 'tis.
“An F/A-18E Super Hornet from VFA-81 "Sunliners" taxis onto a catapult during night flight operations aboard USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70). Carl Vinson is supporting Operation Inherent Resolve. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class John Philip Wagner Jr.”

Source: http://i2.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwor ... v-7-10.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 13:30
by sdkf251
Nice Pic of the F-18! :applause: Especially like the shark artwork! Should have some scale modelers wanting to do the same to their models!

I hope the F-35 will sport some great looking art paint like this in the future! Head on, the F-35 looks like an Orca whale.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:31
by spazsinbad
A bit of lighten for the paintwork

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 19:15
by spazsinbad
I've quickly looked via Gargle at 'wot are catapult buttons' without success. Any info appreciated. Tah.

Install CVN Catapult Buttons https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnavy/6276172069/
“Sailors install buttons into a steam-powered catapult aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). ARABIAN SEA (Oct. 16, 2011) Sailors install buttons into a steam-powered catapult aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). John C. Stennis is deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility conducting maritime security operations and support missions as part of Operation Enduring Freedom and New Dawn. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Benjamin Crossley/Released) 111016-N-BT887-276” https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6043/627 ... 48_o_d.jpg


Remove CVN Catapult Buttons https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1951924/ ... WC6wOkw8kI
“150523-N-IP531-015 WATERS SOUTH OF JAPAN (May 23, 2015) Sailors remove catapult buttons on the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73). George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, are on patrol in the 7th Fleet area of responsibility supporting security and stability in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. George Washington will conduct a hull-swap with the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) later this year after serving seven years as the U.S. Navy's only forward-deployed aircraft carrier in Yokosuka, Japan. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Chris Cavagnaro/Released)”
https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1951924

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 21:06
by 35_aoa
No idea there. I've seen the rubber things that they lay in the track at night/when not in use, but never noticed those before.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 25 May 2015, 20:23
by sferrin
35_aoa wrote:No idea there. I've seen the rubber things that they lay in the track at night/when not in use, but never noticed those before.



Knowing absolutely nothing about them, I'm wondering if they're to help adjust the track width. Just temporary blocks put in while adjustments are made? Is the track width even adjustable? (I'd think it'd have to be.)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 25 May 2015, 20:59
by spazsinbad
These USN cat tracks are some 300 whatever feet long so there might be a tendency for them to warp whilst cooling down from use. Certainly I know that the short 110 foot catapult onboard HMAS Melbourne was worked upon during times day/night when the track was evenly heated - but I'm only guessing about 'track buttons' usage here. Otherwise as mentioned a rubber seal is put over/in the catapult track according to '35_aoa'. First photo below is on left then right. PLUS good videos about DECK LIFE from the CREW: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGsdKh ... 2608963051
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_040404-N-1045B-099_Airman_Casey_Quijano,_of_West_Valley_City,_Utah,_tightens_catapult_track_buttons_on_one_of_four_steam-powered_catapults_aboard_USS_George_Washington_(CVN_73).jpg
"Arabian Gulf (April 4, 2004) - Airman Casey Quijano, of West Valley City, Utah, tightens catapult track buttons on one of four steam-powered catapults aboard USS George Washington (CVN 73). The Norfolk, Va.-based nuclear powered aircraft carrier is on a regularly scheduled deployment in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate Airman Michael D. Blackwell II. (RELEASED) 4 April 2004" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _73%29.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_111214-N-BT887-162_Sailors_install_buttons_into_the_slot_of_a_steam-powered_catapult_track_aboard_the_Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier_USS_Joh.jpg
"ARABIAN GULF (Dec. 14, 2011) Sailors install buttons into the slot of a steam-powered catapult track aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). John C. Stennis is deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility conducting maritime security operations and support missions as part of Operations Enduring Freedom and New Dawn. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Benjamin Crossley/Released) 14 Dec 2011
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... SS_Joh.jpg

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 18:45
by spazsinbad
A very good photos series of F-35C/NIMITZ time at this website URL.
Photorecon.net visits the USS Nimitz and the F-35C.
19 Nov 2014 Douglas Aguillard

"...Cmdr. Wilson took time to discuss the testing of the F-35C and the carrier take offs and landings (traps). Cmdr. Wilson, who has previously flown F/A-18 C’s& F’s, recorded his 500th trap during this current round of testing, while in a F-35C.

PR: What have you learned so far in this series of tests, any issues?
Wilson: “We are conducting developmental tests and we are learning, and the results thus far have been promising. The issues we’ve had have been very minor and expected. We expected to have some problems, but to our surprise, everything has been going well. What we have learned is that the plane is integrating very well, with the sensor usage and our network capabilities, as well as our maintenance and sustainability”.

PR: What was the main difference between the F/A18 and the F-35 when making your traps?
Wilson: “The handling qualities are nice, and the landing difference between the F/A-18 and the F-35C, is with the Control Laws software. The plane is very well behaved and the trap itself with the F-35C seems softer when landing”.

PR: What are the Control Laws?
Wilson: “The Control Laws, is revolutionary software that is in our flight control computers, and is designed to help the pilot land, making minute adjustments as the plane approaches the deck, making landing almost an administrative task, thus making the approaches and landings easier for the pilot. it will increase our safety margins out here”. So when you hear, “fly by wire” this is what were talking about. It’s basically the software in the computers that helps us fly the jet”.

PR: How is the new helmet working? (The F-35 Gen III Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS) built by Rockwell Collins ESA Vision Systems International combines infrared, night-vision, augmented and virtual reality to let pilots see more than ever before — including right down through the plane itself).
Wilson: The helmet performance has been going very well. We have not seen any issues with the helmet thus far and it is performing as advertised. We currently are still using the Gen II helmet.

This series of testing has been done “Clean Wings”, with no ordinance stored under the aircrafts wings. That phase is schedule for sometime in 2015. The F-35C is not expected to reach the actual fleet until 2018.

Standing high above the flight deck, we positioned ourselves along Vulture’s Row (an observation area on the “Island” of the Carrier). We watched Commander Wilson in the cockpit, readying his aircraft for launch. The Nimitz turned into the wind and was going at 30+ knots. [fark! :mrgreen: ] Soon, the jet was guided to its launch position.

Cmdr. Wilson and the F-35C roared to life and took off with only a slight dip, once off of the flight deck. He climbed in elevation and did several looping passes with gear down around the Nimitz, before coming in for a landing about 10 minutes later. After refueling, Cmdr. Wilson repeated this flight profile and soon it was time for us to leave the Nimitz and reboard our C-2A Greyhound and fly back to NASNI.

After we left the Nimitz, the first night time launch and recovery of the F-35C was successfully conducted."

PHOTO: http://photorecon.net/wp-content/upload ... arrier.jpg [NOTE LSOs]
&
TestingKneePadCheckLists: http://photorecon.net/wp-content/galler ... C_4206.jpg
&
DoubleHandedTowelRackCatapultGrip: http://photorecon.net/wp-content/galler ... C_4272.jpg

Source: http://photorecon.net/photorecon-net-vi ... the-f-35c/

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 23:32
by popcorn

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 23:42
by spazsinbad
Thanks for that 'pc' I'll check it out. Quote from graphic above from PDF above.

Track Slot Buttons http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 10_ch4.pdf
Track slot buttons (fig. 4-32) are provided to prevent the arresting gear purchase cables from falling into catapult number three’s trough cover slot during recovery operations. Track slot buttons must be removed prior to any catapult operations

Track Slot Button Installation
1. Removed the button from the designated ready storage area and install 12 buttons at 12 feet intervals beginning with the first button 12 feet forward of catapult position.

2. Insert speed wrench in each button latch capscrew and turn one full turn counterclockwise. This will align the latches with the button.

3. Place the button in the track slot and turn each latch capscrew clockwise until it is fully tightened. Insure each latch turns to a position perpendicular to the track slot.

Track Button Removal
1. Turn the latch capscrew of each button counterclockwise until the latches are aligned with the buttons. The button can then be lifted out of the slot with the speed wrench.

2. Perform a count of the buttons to ensure they have all been removed.

3. Return the buttons to their storage cart and return the cart to their designated storage area.

4. Any missing or damaged button shall be reported to the catapult officer.

5. After the catapult slot has been cleared of buttons, stow the shuttle forward."

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2015, 10:24
by spazsinbad
This info is repeated in the 'MAGIC CARPET' thread also but again here due relevance to F-35C and testing of same:

Lockheed Martin Update http://livestream.com/wab/tailhook2015/videos/98909598

LOTS of good info about shore based F-35C testing and of course the CVN test last year in this video - 23 Minutes.

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 15 Sep 2015, 04:34
by spazsinbad
LM Test Pilot Elliott Clements Brief about F-35C Shake Rattle & Roll and DT-1 at TAILHOOK 2015. I missed the last few sentences at the end where he says they did something like 300 approaches resulting in touch and goes & arrests when the hook was down (124). Many touch & goes done for test purposes when simulating how a nugget flies early on.

Note the comment at the beginning 20K lbs fuel approx. with a Super Hornet fuel burn.

F-35C LM Test Pilot Shake Rattle Roll DT-1 TailHOOK 2015 Brief


Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 05:48
by spazsinbad
This video is 3.5 years old and I do not recall seeing it before - so bear this in mind; especially perhaps some throwaway lines Steve Long uses about the approach. Remember your briefings in this thread and MAGIC Carpet about IDLC etc.

This is the BAE F-35 Simulator (which has now reverted to UK CVF/F-35B usage again) temporarily getting up to speed for the short reign idea of 'cats 'n FLAPS' (yep) on CVFs. :D Enjoy. It would not be easy to talk as Steve has done doing this carrier approach at the same time - OK he ain't gonna die in the simulator but would have been severely embarrassed etc. :mrgreen:

BELOW the Second Video shows another version with explanations about the bits & bobs... & this video has been seen before - on this thread prolly...
F35 FLIGHT SIMULATOR with STEVE LONG
Uploaded on Feb 7, 2012 BAE Systems

"Steve Long BAE Systems test pilot, shows you how he lands an F-35, travelling around 150MPH, onto the deck of a moving aircraft carrier. All this is done in the Carrier Simulator, at Warton, Lancashire."




Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 16:31
by spazsinbad
From VX-23 Strike Test News 2015 the relevant F-35C seven pages are attached below, some text will follow.... [pages have some F-35B IOC info also & other B/C mission systems testing etc.]
"...Stay tuned to the Pax River ITF by visiting our new Defense Video & Imagery Distribution System (DVIDS) page at http://www.dvidshub.net/unit/F-35LIIPRITF for a free subscription to the latest F-35 Lightning II public released videos, photos, and news...."

"...The team also completed testing the “clean wing” aerial refueling configurations of strategic tanker (KC-10 and KC-135). The team then began external store aerial refueling testing as well as F/A-18 Super Hornet aerial refueling testing...."

F-35 High Angle of Attack Testing SQUADRON LEADER Andy “Gary” Edgell, RAF
"The High Angle of Attack (AOA) program made significant progress over the last year, leaving less than 30 percent testing remaining. For both the F-35B and F-35C variants, initial envelope expansion and intentional departures are complete, as is departure resistance testing in symmetric air-to-air and landing configurations [FARK! :mrgreen: Prolly just means only in conventional mode for both because Mode IV F-35B STOVL MODE control laws will not allow any funny stuff]. All that remains is asymmetric air-to-air and asymmetric air-to-ground testing.

The aircraft has flown to ever-increasing AOAs (+180 to -180 deg), culminating in intentional dynamic departures and tailslides. While purposely saturating the flight control system through as-aggressive-as-possible departures, the aircraft
remains remarkably robust with the control laws promptly resolving the dynamics and consistently recovering the aircraft without pilot interaction.

The impressive performance of the flight control system should give resounding confidence to the Fleet operators that the full envelope of the aircraft is available for total exploitation in a dynamic combat scenario. This line of testing has been an unquestionable success."

http://issuu.com/nawcad_pao/docs/striketest2015_single 40 pages 3.6Mb

FLICKR ALBUM: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 0763/page1 (815 photos)

Re: Milestone PLANK Owner First F-35C Arrest NIMITZ 03 Nov 2

Unread postPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 17:01
by spazsinbad
2015 STRIKE TEST NEWS
2015 VX-23 LCDR Daniel “Tonto” Kitts

"...F-35C Carrier Suitability
The F-35C completed initial sea trials from November 3-14, 2014 aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68). The at-sea test event was the culmination of a year of shore based test operations at the TC-7 and MK-7 catapult and arresting gear site at NAS Patuxent River as well as at Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst. At sea, the F-35C accomplished 124 arrested landings, 222 touch and gos, zero one wires and zero unintentional bolters. (The team conducted two hook-down intentional bolters as part of the DT-I test plan.) The F-35C demonstrated exceptional performance both in the air and on the flight deck, accelerating the team’s progress through the DT-I schedule and achieving 100 percent of the threshold test points three days early. Test pilots flew approaches in three different approach modes (Manual, Approach Power Compensation (APC), and Delta Flight Path (DFP)). Handling qualities in all three approach modes were excellent. DFP is a new approach mode that allows the pilot to directly command a glideslope. The test team characterized the performance of DFP as an enhancing characteristic of the airplane. In fact, test pilots and engineers credited the F-35’s DFP technology with significantly reducing pilot workload during the approach to the carrier, increasing safety margins during carrier approaches and reducing touchdown dispersion. Calling the aircraft a three-wire machine, they noted that the F-35C was very good at flying behind the ship, that the flight control system was precise, stable, responsive and delivered carefree handling in all flight regimes, and they predicted that future Fleet pilots would be able to correct any deviations quickly and accurately.

Since the aircraft flew very well behind the ship, the test team decided to conduct night ops — an unheard of feat during the first at sea period of any naval aircraft since the F-4 era. They conducted multiple approaches, two hook-down passes, and two traps. However, due to the quality of the image in the Helmet Mounted Display (HMD), they delayed further night operations until the second at sea developmental test period (DT-II). The improved image quality of the new GEN III helmet HMD release will enable upcoming night carrier landings during DT-II. Overall, DT-I was an extremely successful effort, proving the sea worthiness of the F-35C and developing a large amount of the initial Aircraft Launch and Recovery Bulletins...."

Source: http://issuu.com/nawcad_pao/docs/striketest2015_single (PDF 3.6Mb)