F-35s at Farnborough Air Show 2014?

[spazsinbad]

Paris Air Show 2013 Preview: Improved Show Boasts More Diverse Exhibitors June 2, 2013 by Ian Sheppard and Charles Alcock

"...Another debutante that SIAE had hoped to lure to Le Bourget is Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The aircraft now seems more likely to enter the world stage at the 2014 Farnborough show in the UK...."

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... exhibitors

[zero-one]

Question.
Is this going to be the F-35's demo team debut or something else? I wish it wont be just a fly-by or anything like that.

If so, what model would be performing? I'm guessing its the A varriant since its the one with the most high AOA and high-G testing under its belt,

but then again it could also be the B since its the closest one to IOC. Which begs the question, why dont we hear about any maneuver load and AOA testing for the Bee?

[johnwill]

Due to its close geometric similarity to the A, less maneuver load and high AoA testing should be required for the B. Note I said "should be". NAVAIR being NAVAIR, they may require a full repeat of the testing.

[zero-one]

Due to its close geometric similarity to the A, less maneuver load and high AoA testing should be required for the B. Note I said "should be". NAVAIR being NAVAIR, they may require a full repeat of the testing.

But wouldn't the added weight, not to mention the shift in center of G [because of the heavy lift fan] affect the maneuverability of the B when compared with the A? Just a thought



Anyway, when it comes to F-35 maneuverability,

I think its a close contest between the A & the C, they'll have many similarities but that 50% difference in wing area plus the 5,000 lbs weight difference will surely make some noticable differences in performance.

Just like how Viper and Hornet pilots had endless debates on which was better in a knife fight, the A and C may continue that legacy.

Needless to say I hope the A or C model debuts for the F-35 demo team. since maneuverability is one of its hardest hit strong points, it should open up with a hugh BANG

[basher54321]

Just like how Viper and Hornet pilots had endless debates on which was better in a knife fight, the A and C may continue that legacy.

Good point actually - and long may those dogfight arguments continue!

[popcorn]

I think the B could do a very competitive aerobatics display and capping the performance flying in reverse and executing a couple of pirouettes culminating in a gentle VL would be hard to beat.

[Corsair1963]

Due to its close geometric similarity to the A, less maneuver load and high AoA testing should be required for the B. Note I said "should be". NAVAIR being NAVAIR, they may require a full repeat of the testing.

But wouldn't the added weight, not to mention the shift in center of G [because of the heavy lift fan] affect the maneuverability of the B when compared with the A? Just a thought



Anyway, when it comes to F-35 maneuverability,

I think its a close contest between the A & the C, they'll have many similarities but that 50% difference in wing area plus the 5,000 lbs weight difference will surely make some noticable differences in performance.

Just like how Viper and Hornet pilots had endless debates on which was better in a knife fight, the A and C may continue that legacy.

Needless to say I hope the A or C model debuts for the F-35 demo team. since maneuverability is one of its hardest hit strong points, it should open up with a hugh BANG

For what it's worth I remember a recent F-35 Test Pilot Quoting. That he enjoyed flying the "C" Model the most. I'm pretty sure he was a retired Air Force.

[Corsair1963]

Due to its close geometric similarity to the A, less maneuver load and high AoA testing should be required for the B. Note I said "should be". NAVAIR being NAVAIR, they may require a full repeat of the testing.

But wouldn't the added weight, not to mention the shift in center of G [because of the heavy lift fan] affect the maneuverability of the B when compared with the A? Just a thought



Anyway, when it comes to F-35 maneuverability,

I think its a close contest between the A & the C, they'll have many similarities but that 50% difference in wing area plus the 5,000 lbs weight difference will surely make some noticable differences in performance.

Just like how Viper and Hornet pilots had endless debates on which was better in a knife fight, the A and C may continue that legacy.

Needless to say I hope the A or C model debuts for the F-35 demo team. since maneuverability is one of its hardest hit strong points, it should open up with a hugh BANG

The F-35 should be a great Air Show Performer. As it will have great Thrust-to-Weight and High AOA Capabilities . Combined with the Size and Power of the P & W F-135. Should provide an excellent show....

Personally, I always preferred the Noise and Power of the Tomcat/Eagle vs the Viper/Hornet.

[zero-one]

The F-35 should be a great Air Show Performer. As it will have great Thrust-to-Weight and High AOA Capabilities . Combined with the Size and Power of the P & W F-135. Should provide an excellent show....

Personally, I always preferred the Noise and Power of the Tomcat/Eagle vs the Viper/Hornet.

Since most are comparing the F-35 to the Hornet and Viper, I've been watching a lot of their demos lately.

Best Legacy Hornet Demo I've seen was this
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPVOwBiZMv8[/YouTube]

Did the Swiss do something to their Hornets to make it that maneuverable?
Heard the commentator say that it received FCS updates to incrase maneuverability. Did the USN apply the same updates?

Any ways, the Navy had an awsome Rhino Demo here, best Superhornet routine I've seen,
being loaded is also a huge plus.
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz2Cl3TnRyM[/YouTube]

[gtx]

That last one is quite good especially given the load out which is something you don't often see is such demos.

I look forward to the day we start seeing similar demos from the F-35. Should make a few people sit up and take notice. Would especially love it if they did the demo and then at the end did a flyby with weapons bay open to show a full load out as well!

[hornetfinn]

Best Legacy Hornet Demo I've seen was this
[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPVOwBiZMv8[/YouTube]

Did the Swiss do something to their Hornets to make it that maneuverable?
Heard the commentator say that it received FCS updates to incrase maneuverability. Did the USN apply the same updates?

IIRC, both Finnish and Swiss C/D Hornets have some upgraded parts which increases serviceability and makes them somewhat stronger structurally and also save a little weight. They also probably have the latest FCS upgrades. Main reason for Swiss (and Finnish) Hornet performance is the F404-GE-402 EPE engines, which increases the thrust (and T/W ratio) quite a lot (10-15 percent usually, but in some cases close to 20 percent). Actually Finnish and Swiss Hornets have pretty much exactly the same T/W ratio as F-35A does when compared to empty weight of the jet. So I think F-35A should have at least comparable air show performance to Swiss/Finnish or the latest USN Hornets.

[neptune]

Paris Air Show 2013 Preview: Improved Show Boasts More Diverse Exhibitors June 2, 2013 by Ian Sheppard and Charles Alcock

"...Another debutante that SIAE had hoped to lure to Le Bourget is Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The aircraft now seems more likely to enter the world stage at the 2014 Farnborough show in the UK...."

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... exhibitors

I hope the "Brits" can afford to bring one from Florida. How do you fold a "Bee" into a C-17, in half!

[zero-one]

The excitement is a killer, sure hope we wont be dissapointed,

on almost every F-35 related video on youtube you'll find coments on how the F-16 designer (they think its Pierre Spray) said it cant turn, cant climb and would be clubbed like baby seals even by Mig-21s.

To make matters worse some F-35 supporters are defending it the wrong way. Im seeing comments like, "the F-35 is not maneuverable because it was never made to dogfight, it was made for BVR combat only"

all while I'm saying to myself, please, ur not helping

[spazsinbad]

Exclusive: U.S. set to approve international debut of F-35 fighter: sources 25 Mar 2014 Andrea Shalal Reuters

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Defense Department is poised to approve the first trans-Atlantic flight of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter jet in July, when the new warplane is expected to take part in two international air shows near London, according to multiple sources familiar with the issue.

U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is "very close" to a decision that would allow two or three F-35s to fly at two British shows, three sources, who were not authorized to speak publicly, said Tuesday. The shows are the Royal International Air Tattoo, or RIAT, an annual military air show outside London, and the Farnborough air show, held every other year....

...Britain, which contributed $2 billion to the development of the new radar-evading fighter jet and plans to buy 138 F-35s in coming years, asked for the jet's participation to help showcase the increasing maturity of the new radar-evading plane. Britain was also the first international partner on the program.

Details of the F-35's international debut are being worked out, including how much it will cost to fly the planes to London and who will pay for it, but no issues have emerged to prevent the appearances, the sources said.

The costs will likely be shared by Britain, the Pentagon's F-35 program office, the U.S. Marine Corps and industry.

The Pentagon's F-35 program office said it was evaluating the logistical, security and safety aspects of Britain's request for the jet's participation in both air shows and expected to make a recommendation to senior Pentagon leaders shortly....

...BRITISH, U.S. DEFENSE OFFICIALS TO MEET
British Defense Secretary Philip Hammond is due to meet with Hagel during a visit to the United States this week, but they are not planning an announcement about the F-35's UK debut, said one of the sources.

Current plans call for at least one of the participating F-35s to be one of the three F-35 B-model jets already built for Britain, with a UK pilot at the controls.

Participating in the international air shows will allow the Pentagon's F-35 program to carry out additional training and learn how the plane's logistics, maintenance, aerial refueling, and security systems work overseas, the sources said.

"This will be an opportunity to learn real-world lessons and allow additional time to resolve any problems before the first airplanes are delivered overseas," said one of the sources...."

SOURCE: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 9183.story

[popcorn]

If the Marines are footing part of the bill, then the F-35B is surely making an appearance. Only fitting to give the Cousins a first hand look at the future of their TACAIR force.