F-35s at Farnborough Air Show 2014?

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
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zero-one

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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 06:57

spazsinbad wrote:The F-35B air display potentially has been mentioned a few times now. Apart from NO vertical landing (for good reasons clarified a zillion times by now) the Bee will showcase STOVL. Ask yourself - apart from the Harrier - how many aircraft can do what the F-35B does. I want to see a 40,000lb aircraft hovering in mid-air - but I won't - because I'm far away.


it will be impressive Im sure,

but the F-35 has never been critisized for not being able to Hover, Critisism has always been that it can't turn.

And instead of proving the naysayers wrong big time,

this display might look like its proving them right.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 07:28

I do not get this obsession with turning at an airshow. If that is the only thing someone is concerned about then I give up.
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popcorn

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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 07:45

zero-one wrote:
popcorn wrote:Really, Zero-one, no one in the JPO or any of the Partner Countries share your concern. They all looked forward to the UK events to showcase what the program has accomplished to-date. They know better than to let ignorant criticism distract them from what they are working hard to achieve. To have this affect you the way it does, marks you as troll fodder willing to put stock in their warped agenda.


Easy Pops, no need to get hairy, we're on the same team.

Don't tell me it doesn't bother you when you see Spray, Axe, Copp, BS, blabber about how the F-35 is such a "turkey"? I .


even just a little bit, because we sure get ticked off by it.

FIA is supposed to show the progress made by the JPO for the past decade of development and testing,

and since we have a fighter going on an airshow

I would like it to perform like a fighter in an airshow,

If you don't want it to perform that way, then thats up to you, I'd just like to know why?

Honestly, doesn't bother me in the least nowadays.. they've been totally discredited so many times in the past, it's not worth responding to village idiots. As for the airshow routine planned for the UK, it's not what I want, it's what the JSF Program Officials and UK Mod want. I'm happy to be in good company.
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 08:08

spazsinbad wrote:I do not get this obsession with turning at an airshow. If that is the only thing someone is concerned about then I give up.


Cumon, Spaz, its an airshow, :D its suposed to be fun,
this is the only time in a combat aircraft's life where Kinematics is everything.

think of it this way, You go to a dance competition and you see a contestant who really can't quite dance (yet) but hey he can sing to..

In no way am I saying that the demo won't be impresive, it will, but It could be even more impressive and at the same time dispell all the lies about it if the demo was simply done a year later
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 08:25

popcorn wrote:Honestly, doesn't bother me in the least nowadays.. they've been totally discredited so many times in the past, it's not worth responding to village idiots.


They've been discredited so many times for us who have access to the information given by guys like Gums, Sprts, Spaz, Johnwill, SMsgtMac and others like them.

But for the generall public, these guys are viewd as crusaders who are trying to "dispell the PR propaganda of the Evil Lockheed Martin Corporation"

So yeah, Im a bit bothered by what may happen, On other Aviation forums, we are sometimes viewed as LM sales men and fan boys who will believe everything that LM says. However we've managed to prove them wrong when we show them the Math.

But this demo will speak for itself, that is what worries me, no matter how much stats we show, if it doesn't perform like a fighter then its an uphill battle all over again
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 08:50

You don't get it. No matter what happens the negative will be seen by the anti-F-35 crowd. Guaranteed. F-35Bs VLing on WASP for the first time. Just a PR stunt to those negative buckinears. You have to be patient grasshopper. http://www.ask.com/question/what-is-the ... rasshopper
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 09:31

Someone who knows history (John Farley Old Harrier Pilot- google him - made a comment that if the Harrier bowed to the crowd then the crowd need to bow to the Bee).

Then the esteemed Col. Tomassetti USMC said this:
"...SLD: As a Harrier pilot, could you comment on the potential arrival of the F-35Bs? | 17 Jul 2011 [at Eglin AFB]

Col. Tomassetti: It is ultimately disappointing constantly to see in the news all of the things that the F-35B hasn’t been able to achieve yet or can’t do & people completely missing what we’ve already achieved.

The fact is that we have a STOVL airplane that every pilot who has flown it says that it’s easy to fly. In 60 years of trying to build jet airplanes and do this, we’ve never ever been there before. We’ve never had a STOVL airplane that was as full spectrum capable as it’s conventional counterparts. We’ve never done that before in 60 years of trying.

It’s an amazing engineering achievement; [what] we’ve already accomplished is completely being missed by some observers.” [Colonel ‘Art’ Tomassetti [USMC] flew the X-35B on the STO - Supersonic - VL mission a decade ago, 30 July 2001. Now he is vice-commander 33rd Fighter Wing Eglin. http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/news/archive/55.html]

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/?p=21300
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 11:00

spazsinbad wrote: We’ve never had a STOVL airplane that was as full spectrum capable as it’s conventional counterparts. We’ve never done that before in 60 years of trying.



Well there u go, we've never had a STOVL that was as capable as its conventional counterparts, except for now.

The F-35B is Supersonic and super maneuverable, but can't show any of that, at least not yet. Thats what bothers me.

All Im saying is that I dont think there will be any spectacular reviews come Friday regarding the B's demo.

sure it will hover and people will just be in awe of an alien like craft traveling as fast as ur typical mom driving on 4 wheels, but no demonstration of a Stovl airplane that is a full spectrum as capable as its conventional counterparts
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 11:17

zero-one wrote:
spazsinbad wrote: We’ve never had a STOVL airplane that was as full spectrum capable as it’s conventional counterparts. We’ve never done that before in 60 years of trying.



Well there u go, we've never had a STOVL that was as capable as its conventional counterparts, except for now.

The F-35B is Supersonic and super maneuverable, but can't show any of that, at least not yet. Thats what bothers me.

All Im saying is that I dont think there will be any spectacular reviews come Friday regarding the B's demo.

sure it will hover and people will just be in awe of an alien like craft traveling as fast as ur typical mom driving on 4 wheels, but no demonstration of a Stovl airplane that is a full spectrum as capable as its conventional counterparts


In other words haters gonna hate. Which could easily be an F-35 program motto by now.

Please realize that the Sprey has never given even the F-15 its due. Its undefeated in air combat where his F-16 was supposed to dominate, and its been combat proven for 30 years. These guys are not going to admit their wrong even after its extremely clear they are.

You have mentioned this before and it is what it is. How many of the F-35s most public critics will even be at the airshow? they will see pictures and video, the same pics and vid that has yet to change their minds. as spaz pointed out, everything the F-35 accomplishes is smoke and mirrors to them. if you can't be impressed with a 16 ton hovering stealth fighter in front of your nose, in the UK of all places, then you probably don't know anything about airplanes and should go back to make out with your cousin in the comfort of your basement
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 12:03

I think I might be with zero-one on this one.

The humdrum cavedwellers which we are so eagerly to write off as discredited naysayers are still regularly quoted in the mass media, or at least they are at this side of the pond. I dare say that most of the negativity among Dutch politicians and the Dutch public is based upon the criticism, regardless of factuality, voiced by the aforementioned culprits. I know for a fact that a lot of parliamentary questions are based upon the works of people who will undoubtedly find a way to use a hovering F-35B as a way to discredit the F-35 (whatever version) as a noisy, unagile and lousy platform. The general public will swallow it like sweet pie, because what the hell do they know about it all?

Will it be nice to finally see a F-35B make it's appearance? Sure. But is it worth the drama when it fails to amaze the general public? Keep in mind that most of them go to an airshow exactly because they would like to see clean fighters do fast turns and all the others things a fighter would otherwise never do..
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 13:21

treebeard wrote:I think I might be with zero-one on this one.

The humdrum cavedwellers which we are so eagerly to write off as discredited naysayers are still regularly quoted in the mass media, or at least they are at this side of the pond. I dare say that most of the negativity among Dutch politicians and the Dutch public is based upon the criticism, regardless of factuality, voiced by the aforementioned culprits. I know for a fact that a lot of parliamentary questions are based upon the works of people who will undoubtedly find a way to use a hovering F-35B as a way to discredit the F-35 (whatever version) as a noisy, unagile and lousy platform. The general public will swallow it like sweet pie, because what the hell do they know about it all?

Will it be nice to finally see a F-35B make it's appearance? Sure. But is it worth the drama when it fails to amaze the general public? Keep in mind that most of them go to an airshow exactly because they would like to see clean fighters do fast turns and all the others things a fighter would otherwise never do..



Good news then:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28257349
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Unread post12 Jul 2014, 22:05

As F-35 Remains Grounded, Hope Turns to Farnborough
12 Jul 2014 AARON MEHTA

"...A source with knowledge of the situation said the travel plan calls for the four F-35Bs to be refueled around 20 times each. The reason: for the first trip across the Atlantic, the service wants to make sure the plane is able to get to land in case of any emergency. The idea is to keep tanks above three-quarters full at all times.

The source added that this is fairly typical of new designs making their first flight across an ocean....

..."This is a deployment," [LM VP] Martin said. "This is the US Marine corps deploying their aircraft overseas, testing spare parts, testing ALIS [the plane's logistics system] remotely, testing their flying profiles and how to do a long duration flight. This has value in it which far outreaches the air show… they're going to learn a lot.""

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... arnborough
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Unread post14 Jul 2014, 20:45

FARNBOROUGH: F-35 deployment hinges on safety board decision
14 Jul 2014 Craig Hoyle

"A US military safety investigation board will have the final say on whether to approve the Lockheed Martin F-35 for a return to flight as soon as this week, as inspection work continues on the Pratt & Whitney engine which caused a fire in late June.

Speaking on the opening day of the Farnborough air show, F-35 programme executive officer Lt Col Christopher Bogdan said the possibility of the short take-off and vertical landing B variant appearing at Farnborough remains, although an approval must happen soon.

“I don’t think it would be worthwhile to come here when the show is over,” Bogdan says, adding that four US Marine Corps aircraft remain “perched” to make the deployment from NAS Patuxent River in Maryland. “A day or two” is needed between an approval to fly being granted and aircraft arriving in the UK, he adds.

If the STOVL aircraft does reach Farnborough, he notes: “we are intending to do the [display] profile that the USMC and the UK have been training for four months, that showcases some of the extraordinary capabilities of the B-model.”..."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... rd-401476/
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Unread post14 Jul 2014, 21:03

spazsinbad wrote:F-35 programme executive officer Lt Col Christopher Bogdan



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Unread post15 Jul 2014, 11:04

F-35 Fleet Grounding Lifted; Farnborough Flights Likely
15 Jul 2014 Colin Clark

"FARNBOROUGH AIR SHOW: An official statement from the Pentagon is on the way but I can confirm that the order grounding the F-35 fleet has been lifted and the pilots waiting on 24-hour standby may well be scrambling for their planes as I type.

Just in: the statement from Rear Adm. John Kirby:

“Yesterday the air worthiness authorities for the U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force approved the F-35 fleet to return to flight. This is a limited flight clearance that includes an engine inspection regimen and a restricted flight envelope which will remain in effect until the root cause of the June 23 engine mishap is identified and corrected.”

“We remain hopeful that the F-35 can make an appearance at the Farnborough airshow. This information is an encouraging step, but no final decision has been made at this time.

“Safety remains the overriding priority. Additional information will be provided as it becomes available.”..."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/07/f-35 ... ts-likely/
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