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Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2013, 03:38
by lookieloo
spazsinbad wrote:I thought you were a troll.
I thought you would know me better than that by now.

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Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2013, 04:03
by spazsinbad
Hmmmm - like everyone else you are only a pseudonym on the interwobble. Trust and Verify. Without sources there is no information. Speculation is useless.

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Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2013, 07:51
by neurotech
lookieloo wrote:
neurotech wrote:The issues with the hook were basically "solved" with a combination of modifications and further testing of the F-35C and X-47B which has a similar design. The X-47B was modified after similar issues, and subsequently made 2 arrested landings, and (as I recall) no unplanned bolters. I have full confidence that the F-35C will complete carrier trials as planned.

My biggest concern with the F-35 is they can't do what NASA did with Sen. Bill Nelson and Sen. Jake Garn and suggest some of these politicians and paper pushers put on their flight gear and go up on a mission. Do any of the politicians want to go up in a F/A-18D chase jet to see first hand what the F-35C is capable of? I don't think there is any current fighter pilots in the House or Senate, only RC-12 and KC-135 pilots in the reserves.
Heh... I've often wondered if many of the F-35's problems would be solved with a 2-seat variant. Not that it's operationally necessary in the least, but perhaps various reporters/politicians are simply butthurt by the fact they'll never get a ride in one (this may have been part of the F-22's problem as well).

The F-22A had ancient avionics which limited the software capability throughout most of the production run. The result was an expensive jet that couldn't do A/G strike missions and only recently received upgrades for JDAMs etc and still doesn't have direct networking with F-35s.

I'm thinking at some point Lockheed might put some F-35 cockpit displays and other avionics into an F-16D that could be used as a demo jet, but most likely the USAF/DOD/JPO wouldn't pay for it. For training actual pilots, a fairly standard F-16D can be used for initial familiarization with the controls. Most F-35 pilots to date have some F-16 experience so they can be simulator trained for the F-35 without issue. We just wont talk about the F-22 pilot who retracted the landing gear too soon.

If it was just about giving a good ride for a politician, an aggressor F-16D could fly up against a F-35 and give a pretty good account of the capabilities of the jets.

The first time the F-35 flies into combat a lot of the criticism will be silenced. The F-22A being a primary air superiority jet is taking longer to see real combat.

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2013, 19:46
by spazsinbad
At least something is happening - positive or negative? Take your pick....

Same artickle (for diff reasons) here: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24805&p=262490#p262490

F-35 on track to meet IOC targets, official says 14 Nov 2013 Craig Hoyle [F-35 according to Hoyle?]
"...Speaking at IQPC’s International Fighter conference in London on 13 November, the Joint Program Office representative said flight testing involving a new tailhook design for the carrier variant F-35C should be completed at the US Navy’s Lakehurst site in New Jersey “next month”. The type should begin its first carrier-based trials “late next summer”, he adds, on the way to a first active duty deployment in the fourth quarter of 2018." ... ys-393029/

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2013, 21:00
by spazsinbad
US Navy committed to F-35 despite talks about more F/A-18 buys 19 Nov 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
"Nov 19 (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy remains committed to the Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, but is also looking at options to buy additional Boeing Co F/A-18 fighter jets, a senior U.S. Navy official said on Tuesday.

Richard Gilpin, deputy assistant secretary of the Navy for air programs, told Reuters at the Dubai Airshow that the Navy's current plans still called for purchases of the Boeing F/A-18 and EA-18G electronic attack planes to end in fiscal 2014....

..."Let me be clear. The Navy is very committed to moving to JSF. I wouldn't want you to get the impression that the Navy is not committed to JSF, because we are," Gilpin said in an interview at the air show....

Gilpin said a budget-driven pause in procurement of the Navy's F-35 C-model would not derail the program, although it could potentially increase the cost of each airplane.

He said the Navy continued to work with Lockheed on driving down the cost of the airplanes, and was "on a good path there."

He also said he was "very confident" about the reworked tailhook on the F-35C, which will be tested at a Navy facility in December. "The tailhook thing is behind us, literally and figuratively," he said...." ... CT20131119

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2013, 03:54
by spazsinbad
From the Nov 2013 seminar audio on the F-35C attached is the short segment on HOOK testing, LM Test PIlot Bill Gigliotti is the speaker.

Seminar info here: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=24814&p=262678#p262678

Same video as attached now on YouTube:

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2013, 18:58
by spazsinbad
ENTIRE article seen here viewtopic.php?f=58&t=13143&start=135 earlier but worth noting this detail below:

F-35 Flight Test Update 12 25 Nov 2013 Eric Hehs
"...30 September 2013: Fourteen Cat Shots In One Month
F-35C CF-3 completed fourteen catapult launches in one month. The testing occurred on the TC-7 steam catapult system at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland...."

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2013, 03:11
by spazsinbad
Slightly OLD NEWS these days but what the heck huh?

STRIKE TEST NEWS Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 Newsletter 2013 Issue [produced 11 Oct 2013]
"...Considerable carrier suitability testing was performed at NAS Patuxent River and NAS Lakehurst, bounding the scope of the technical challenges discovered with the landing and arresting gear systems on the F-35C. During this testing, CF-3 performed the first field arrestment during a roll-in arrestment to MK-7 arresting gear. Later in the year, CF-3 conducted over 40 successful roll-in arrestments to MK-7 and E-28 arresting gear and performed five operationally representative fly-in arrestments to MK-7 arresting gear...."

"...F-35B (STOVL) Flight Sciences aircraft
For each variant, Flight Sciences aircraft specifically go after flight test data requirements that would not be available in production configuration. Each has a unique set of instrumentation that has been incorporated throughout the airframe, and truly make these each one-of-a kind aircraft. They were the first to roll off the production line in Fort Worth, and each one is critical to the completion of the flight test program.

The Flight Science jets do not have full sensor suites installed and do not run the block software that provides warfighting capabilities of the jet...."

"...USS WASP Second Sea Trials (DT-II, scheduled for August 2013)
Building on the resounding success of the first sea trials for the F-35B on USS WASP in October of 2011, the team has completed significant efforts in preparation for expanding the envelope at-sea for the USMC/UK pilots who will operate F-35B aircraft at-sea. There is no better way to understand the performance of an aircraft than to take into the operational environment and make it work. The purpose of DT-II is to continue to expand the F-35B flight envelope, ultimately enabling fleet operations in operationally realistic wind and sea state conditions, at night, and with operationally realistic weapons load-outs. The first F-35B developmental test (DT-I) allowed the test team to evaluate the aircraft’s flying qualities and performance in conducting L-Class shipboard flight operations, mainly in the heart of the operating envelope. Additionally, F-35B maintenance and servicing functions will be evaluated. While onboard Wasp, the F-35B and various functions of the ship are instrumented with sensors that will collect data and allow for post-event analysis. Test findings may drive improvements to the F-35B for operations at-sea in preparation for USMC initial operational capability, currently scheduled for 2015...."

"...SHIP SUITABILITY PROJECT TEAM LCDR Thomas “Ub” Kneale, Department Head
...We have three basic responsibilities here at Ship Suitability: Precision Approach and Landing Systems (PALS); Shake, Rattle, and Roll (SRR) or “shakes;” and new ship systems. This year we’ve been heavily involved in all three. PALS certification is our bread and butter, and we perform it on aircraft carriers and L-Class ships at regular intervals and as required if performance starts to degrade. You can think of it as an FAA flight check for ship landing systems, except that the aircrew wear sunglasses more often, and we actually help to fix issues that might exist rather than just clobber the airspace at random and disappear. “Shakes” are the testing we do to the limit of shipboard conditions (maximum off-center arrestment, maximum sink rate arrestment, etc.) for new aircraft systems in order to certify them for shipboard use. This is challenging and rewarding flight test, which takes us right to the edge of the aircraft and launch and recovery system limits. Finally, new ship systems include projects like the Electro-Magnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) and Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS). These are exciting new technologies which will forever change carrier aviation....

...In the accomplishment of our ship suitability mission, one of the lesser known things we do here at VX-23 is operate a unique, shore-based TC-7 catapult and Mk-7 arresting gear. While the workload imposed on our 30 sailors on this shore tour is often arduous, it has rarely been more intense than for the months of 6-7 day work weeks imposed by the rigorous testing to qualify the X-47B Unmanned Combat Aerial System (UCAS) for the historic first shipboard arrestment of any Unmanned Aerial System (UAS). The hard work and professionalism exhibited by our highly trained and proficient site crew was critical to the success of the X-47 mission. I want to express my hearty thanks and job well done to our TC-7/Mk-7 personnel. BZ!" ... oad&id=767 (PDF 1.5Mb)

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2013, 09:25
by spazsinbad
HISTORY of LAND Arrest Systems VIDEO.

Better Way ESCO Arresting Jan 10, 2013 [15 mins]
"Better Way is a Marketing film from our former company, ADEC (Gulf & Western / E.W. Bliss) and its amazing Aircraft Arresting Systems that we still produce today!"

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2013, 03:36
by spazsinbad
The Runway Arresting Landing Site
(RALS) site is unique in its ability to make both high speed ground roll-in arrestments and fly-in arrestments on either the Mk 7 Mod 2 or Mk 7 Mod 3 arresting gear, with the addition of the Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) in the near future. Over 3,000 feet of runway are available to build up speed while the aircraft remains on the runway with over 8,000 feet after the arresting equipment. The runway arrested landing site includes an underground complex located on a 12,000 foot dedicated runway. MK-7 Mod 2, Mod 3, and Mod 3+ arresting gear are located under the runway, and accurately simulate a fleet aircraft carrier installation. It provides a place to test changes to aircraft recovery equipment and aircraft under safe controlled conditions prior to introduction to the fleet. The RALS is the only facility in the world capable of making both highspeed, ground roll-in and fly-in arrests on all types of recovery systems used in the fleet. The roll-in procedure is especially useful because it allows safe, repeatable test conditions. If the aircraft should bolter (miss the arresting gear wire), there is 7,000 feet of runway in which the aircraft can either takeoff or come to a safe stop.” ... Navair.pdf (2.4Mb)

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Dec 2013, 03:05
by spazsinbad
Scroll down about halfway to see the current Lakehurst test facilities:

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2013, 08:30
by popcorn
Is it safe to assume that they would test the hook during actual landings ashore before trials at sea? If so, could positive results from the former be the reason for Mr.,Gilpin's confidence?

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Dec 2013, 09:55
by spazsinbad
Oh for sure 'popcorn'. That is what it is all about - ensure the aircraft is ship shape before it gets out to any carrier for any reason (testing would be the first one). There is a lot more to testing the hook ashore and I'll guess like most everything else the easy tests come first, then the difficult dangerous tests. These 'shake & bake' tests have been outlined recently on this thread. Bear in mind the 'right at the beginning drop tests' on a test example that will never fly? Also recall the F-35C has only one hook and it needs to work ashore as well as afloat. The hook needs to arrest as required for emergency reasons on so equipped airfields much the same as the F-35A emergency hook needs to have performed (satisfactorily it would appear also right at the beginning).

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2013, 02:44
by spazsinbad
Towards the end of this short 3 min video excerpt the ashore arrest/barrier facilities are seen at Pax River and Lakehurst.

Sea Legs Pt2 Arrest Structure Test Pax & Lake

Re: F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2013, 02:55
by spazsinbad
Shirley this is not correct....

Pentagon focused on weapons, data fusion as F-35 nears combat use 04 Dec 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
"...Bogdan said the Navy version of the new fighter was also making progress, and testing of a redesigned tail hook that allows the plane to land on aircraft carriers would begin in coming months after completion of a critical design review." ... 1Y20131205