“F-35 Improvement...”

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
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quicksilver

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steve2267

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Unread post07 Jan 2020, 19:07

Grudgingly...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Jan 2020, 21:30

My favourite sentence - the last one: "...Pentagon approval for full-rate production, delayed from last month, looms [why loom?] for sometime later this year after the testing is complete. :doh: ['slow tony' - for whom the bell tolls?] :devil:

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mixelflick

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Unread post18 Jan 2020, 14:51

Heard many of the same criticisms of the F-15, F-16 etc.. Apparently, most people are under the impression testing new aircraft should be trouble free. Factory fresh with no bugs, nothing to improve etc... I'm not sure how you turn this around, or how the F-35 made so many enemies. As far as I can see, it was/is "cool" to dump on the F-35.

That's changing though, as this and other reports show. It'll likely take successful, high profile raids and/or air to air shootdowns of enemy fighters to truly cement the fact the F-35's a world beater. Sad to say, but I don't see it happening any other way.

Alternatively, it may garner a good reputation the way the F-22 has: Once it shows up in your neighborhood, it's so dominant bad actors (i.e. Iran) get in line like, right quick.
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quicksilver

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Unread post18 Jan 2020, 17:24

“I'm not sure how you turn this around”

Apart from pop-up sensationalist reporting every now and then, it’s already about as turned around as it ever will be in the age of click bait and re-reporting.

“Alternatively, it may garner a good reputation the way the F-22 has: Once it shows up in your neighborhood, it's so dominant bad actors (i.e. Iran) get in line like, right quick.“

Really? Cite an example for us.
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Jan 2020, 15:51

quicksilver wrote:“I'm not sure how you turn this around”

Apart from pop-up sensationalist reporting every now and then, it’s already about as turned around as it ever will be in the age of click bait and re-reporting.

“Alternatively, it may garner a good reputation the way the F-22 has: Once it shows up in your neighborhood, it's so dominant bad actors (i.e. Iran) get in line like, right quick.“

Really? Cite an example for us.


Sure...

Like the time an F-22 snuck up on an Iranian F-4, then appeared unannounced on its wingtip. It was told to go home, and promptly did so (likely because that F-4 pilot nearly crapped his pants).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L20qkP_q1iI

So put yourself in that Iranian's pilot's shoes... you're going to tell me that doesn't put the fear of God in you? Of course it will, and that extends to any Iranian pilot flying any of their fighters. The next time they suit up or scramble for an intercept, that's going to profoundly affect their physche. This Iranian pilot got in line like, right quick because he knew he was profoundly over-matched.

I'd call that a real good example..
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quicksilver

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Unread post26 Jan 2020, 16:44

Let’s think a little bigger picture mix. Whether or not the F-22 story is apocryphal, the presence of F-22s did not alter Iran’s (the nation) strategic behavior one iota. One might better argue the case on the basis of drone presence.
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Unread post27 Jan 2020, 07:33

quicksilver wrote:Let’s think a little bigger picture mix. Whether or not the F-22 story is apocryphal, the presence of F-22s did not alter Iran’s (the nation) strategic behavior one iota. One might better argue the case on the basis of drone presence.


Exactly.

Remember when Saddam's military got completely overmatched in 1991 in the most one-sided conflict since Anglo-Zanzibar War? Do you think Saddam went "oh shoot, I better behave myself now!". Not in the slightest. There were Tomahawk strikes in 1993, 1996, fear of new Kuwait invasion in 1994 that triggered operation Vigilant Warrior, operation Desert Fox in 1998, not to mention that Republican Guard got to business of putting down Kurdish revolts as the Desert Storm ceasefire negotiations were still ongoing in Safwan airbase. Did I mention that also NFZ (operation Southern/Northern Watch) had to be established as well as "boots on the ground" present in Iraqi Kurdistan as part of operations Provide Comfort I/II in order to stop slaughter of Kurds?

One is free to believe that a single F-22 can strike fear in every Iranian military man. One can also open the news and read that US embassy in Baghdad was struck by rocket artillery yesterday, and I don't think I need to tell you who was behind that.
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mixelflick

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Unread post27 Jan 2020, 11:51

quicksilver wrote:Let’s think a little bigger picture mix. Whether or not the F-22 story is apocryphal, the presence of F-22s did not alter Iran’s (the nation) strategic behavior one iota. One might better argue the case on the basis of drone presence.


You are playing games with words/moving goal posts. I said the F-22's presence made bad actors get in line, and fast. And when you demanded an example, I gave you one. Perfect example of how when the F-22 is around, their fighters go from harassing our drones to.... going home WHEN THEY'RE TOLD TO.

That is an excellent example of just what I was talking about. Without firing a shot, Iranian fighters got in line fast with what WE wanted them to do. No F-15 did that, nor any super hornet. There's only one plane in the world that was capable of pulling that off (sneaking up unannounced, suddently appearing off the F-4's wingtip) - the F-22.
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quicksilver

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Unread post27 Jan 2020, 14:10

Your words (which I was responding to), and I quote —

“Once it shows up in your neighborhood, it's so dominant bad actors (i.e. Iran) get in line like, right quick.“
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post27 Jan 2020, 17:33

Psychology, it played a huge role. First, Iran de-escalated the situation from an all out conflict. Two, they were so paranoid about stealth aircraft that they shot down an airliner as soon as it appeared on their radar scope.
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Unread post27 Jan 2020, 18:02

Psychology? Always. For example, Serbian air defense was largely self-deterring on that count.

Lotsa stuff going on in ME airspace besides F-22 presence. The totality of that activity (and it’s greater potential) alters behavior, often asymmetrically.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Jan 2020, 18:18

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Psychology, it played a huge role. First, Iran de-escalated the situation from an all out conflict. Two, they were so paranoid about stealth aircraft that they shot down an airliner as soon as it appeared on their radar scope.


Thank you.

From where I sit, the F-22 has done exactly as I described, and then some. As you correctly note, they were absolutely paranoid about stealth aircraft, chasing ghosts and got so unnerved they shot down an airliner. This, after one of their F-4's did exactly as told (by an F-22 pilot). This, after it magically appeared unannounced, mere feet from his wingtip.

No Super Hornet, F-15, 16, Typhoon or Rafale did that - the F-22 did. I would go so far as to say no other aircraft CAN do that, save the F-35/B-2. Put yourself in the Iranians shoes... Super-cruising stealth F-22's show up on your doorstep. You are powerless to stop them, but those were the orders you were given. Every blip on the scope becomes an F-22, and in the back of your mind you know it can reach out and hurt you with JDAM's.

You're going to tell me your behavior won't change a little? C'mon... This is real life. This is the effect the Raptor has on our enemies. And it's a good, no... great thing. No enemy anywhere has the weapons to counter it. They're all at risk, and they know it. The F-22 is a fundamental game changer - no matter how you look at it.
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Unread post29 Jan 2020, 21:19

Major player in IRG leadership gets popped by a drone and they all of a sudden get paranoid about Raptors — that had already been there for some time. Never mind all the other stuff in theater, including F-35s with blue stars on the side.

Got it.
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Unread post29 Jan 2020, 22:09

quicksilver wrote: Never mind all the ... F-35s with blue stars on the side.


You mean the thing they fired their Air Defense General over?

"Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) commander Brigadier General Farzad Ismaili, who had been in office since 2010, has been fired by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei after he kept secret that Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-35 stealth fighters had violated Iran’s airspace, the Kuwaiti daily Al Jarida reported on Saturday."
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