F135 Upgrades, Reengining Considered In New F-35 Propulsion

All about the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the (cancelled) General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136
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mixelflick

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Unread post12 Jun 2020, 15:50

Oh boy.... more thrust, lower fuel burn. On top of (already) the world's most powerful fighter engine..

This is really going to kill the boys working on the Idylize 30, LOL..
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weasel1962

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 08:09

4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 13:55

weasel1962 wrote:4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.

B-21 has two engines and won't have afterburner. It will be closer to 60,000lbt, but given that it is supposed to be half the size of a B-2 it will be fine.
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steve2267

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 19:24

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.

B-21 has two engines and won't have afterburner. It will be closer to 60,000lbt, but given that it is supposed to be half the size of a B-2 it will be fine.


Have two engines been confirmed? I made a bet with someone around here that the B-21 will have two engines... I need to collect! :drool:
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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 20:03

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.

B-21 has two engines and won't have afterburner. It will be closer to 60,000lbt, but given that it is supposed to be half the size of a B-2 it will be fine.


So far as we know the engines haven't been identified. Sure, we assume they'll be non-afterburning F135s but I've seen nothing definitive.
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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 20:49

sferrin wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.

B-21 has two engines and won't have afterburner. It will be closer to 60,000lbt, but given that it is supposed to be half the size of a B-2 it will be fine.


So far as we know the engines haven't been identified. Sure, we assume they'll be non-afterburning F135s but I've seen nothing definitive.


The AFRL "Vision mission" definition for LRS subsonic ended up requiring a twin-engine 60,000 lbt configuration
(driven by takeoff requirements, 8,000 ft runway, sea-level 95 degree F day). It was a half sized B-2.

lrs-subsonic-config.png
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Design and Control of a Variable Geometry Turbofan with An Independently Modulated Third Stream
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weasel1962

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Unread post14 Jun 2020, 04:04

steve2267 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:4 engines generating close to 200000 lbs of thrust. This could be one of the fastest bombers there is, not to mention the bomb loads.

B-21 has two engines and won't have afterburner. It will be closer to 60,000lbt, but given that it is supposed to be half the size of a B-2 it will be fine.


Have two engines been confirmed? I made a bet with someone around here that the B-21 will have two engines... I need to collect! :drool:


I think need to wait until end next year (or later). Understand there will be a public unveiling before the first flight.
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Unread post21 Oct 2020, 21:45

Pratt & Whitney Awarded Contract for F135 Engine Modernization Study
21 Oct 2020 SEApower STAFF

"EAST HARTFORD, Conn. — Pratt & Whitney, a division of Raytheon Technologies Corp., has been awarded a $1.5M contract to conduct an F135 modernization study and operational assessment by the F-35 Joint Program Office to determine specific propulsion system growth requirements for Block 4.2 F-35 aircraft and beyond, the company said in an Oct. 20 release. The study is expected to conclude in March 2021.

“This award is a significant milestone for the program and the warfighter, as we look to ensure the F135 propulsion system continues to provide the foundation for all air vehicle capability requirements over the full lifecycle of the F-35,” said Matthew Bromberg, president, Pratt & Whitney Military Engines. “As we look to the future, growth in aircraft capability must be met with matched propulsion modernization. Fortunately, the F135 has ample design margin to support agile and affordable upgrades that will enable all F-35 operators to keep pace with evolving threat environments.”

Under this award, Pratt & Whitney will assess F135 engine enhancements required to support future F-35 weapon system capability requirements across all F-35 variants beginning with Block 4.2 aircraft. The scope of the assessment focuses on enhancements addressing improvements to up and away thrust, powered lift thrust, power and thermal management capacity, and fuel burn reduction.

Designed with the knowledge that operational environments will evolve and threats will advance, the F135 is postured to meet future F-35 capability requirements. Its modular design and advanced digital architecture allow for the agile development and spiral insertion of both hardware and software upgrades. As part of the study, Pratt & Whitney’s GATORWORKS organization will complete the conceptual design and analysis of multiple F135 Engine Enhancement Package (EEP) growth options with phased insertion plans...."

Photo: "An F135-PW-100 engine, which powers the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, undergoes salt water corrosion testing in the Arnold Engineering Development Complex SL-3 facility at Arnold Air Force Base, Tennessee, in 2016. U.S. Air Force / Christopher D. Rogers" https://seapowermagazine.org/wp-content ... 24x683.jpg
BiggaHugeA F135 PICtCha: https://seapowermagazine.org/wp-content ... Engine.jpg (10Mb)


Source: https://seapowermagazine.org/pratt-whit ... ion-study/
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Unread post23 Oct 2020, 14:51

The scope of the assessment focuses on enhancements addressing improvements to up and away thrust, powered lift thrust, power and thermal management capacity, and fuel burn reduction.

And what would, "up and away" thrust be???

Thrust in the vertical?
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Unread post23 Oct 2020, 15:09

What is 'powered lift thrust' then?
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Unread post23 Oct 2020, 22:42

Up and away sounds like dynamic thrust at speed and altitude. IIRC the F100-PW-200 had slightly lower rated thrust than the -100 but better dynamic thrust.
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