Engines of Innovation

All about the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the (cancelled) General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136
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spazsinbad

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Unread post19 Sep 2017, 02:30

sunstersun wrote:i don't think the f-35 B will ever take off vertically with a combat load/fuel. it's a really heavy bird.

IF correct an extra 2k lbs of fuel will help it go further (without any other load) to be fuelled / weaponized as noted.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Sep 2017, 18:05

P&W offers F135 upgrade for depot insertion after 2023
20 Sep 2017 Stephen Trimble

"Pratt & Whitney will offer a drop-in thrust or fuel efficiency upgrade for the Lockheed Martin F-35’s engine as the fighter’s joint programme office develops options for the Block 4.2 upgrade package now scheduled to enter service in late 2023.

The Growth Option 1.0 proposal from P&W would improve the 43,000lb-thrust F135 engine’s acceleration force by 6 to 10% depending on the aircraft’s flight condition or reduce fuel consumption by 5% to extend the range of the tactical stealth fighter, P&W Military engines president Matthew Bromberg tells FlightGlobal in an interview....

...Unlike, software updates, the opportunity to accelerate engine upgrades is limited by physics and the rigours of airworthiness testing, Bromberg concedes. Instead of updates on a yearly or even semi-annual basis, P&W is proposing to offer new performance improvements as each F135 engine enters a depot maintenance period, which is generally timed in five- to seven-year intervals.

Growth Option 1.0, which P&W claimed to validate in a ground test of a full engine earlier this year, proposes to update hardware and software controls in only the power module of the F135, which contains the high-pressure compressor, combustor and high-pressure turbine, Bromberg says. P&W’s proposal calls for the JPO to fund an engineering and manufacturing development programme, but the production hardware would cost no more than the existing parts, he says. The upgrade also can be completed by the government’s depot workers.

As P&W discusses the proposed upgrade with the JPO, the company is working internally on Growth Option 2.0 package using a similar philosophy, Bromberg says. The second package also would be focused on delivering performance improvements, but stop short of inserting “third-stream” fan stage technology, Bromberg says."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 20-441331/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Sep 2017, 18:10

I thought previous stories had reported "6-10% increased thrust" and "~5% improved fuel consumption" ?

I guess it's either or now...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post20 Sep 2017, 20:07

steve2267 wrote:I thought previous stories had reported "6-10% increased thrust" and "~5% improved fuel consumption" ?

I guess it's either or now...


I guess it's not simultaneous in the sense that for a given fuel consumption, you get 6-10% thrust increase, while for a given thrust, you have a 5% fuel consumption improvement? :shrug:
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Unread post09 May 2018, 11:09

The latest numbers coming out from the USAF regarding AETP are:

F-35 upgrade-
30% increase in combat radius
18% faster acceleration time
2.5x low-alt dash time
3x more targets reached
45% reduced tanker sorties for CAP
17% more flight training hours

F22 impact from a scaled core
18% range improvements
fuel savings

F15/16 impact from a scaled core
20% range improvement & 15% thrust improvements

See page 8.
https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovclou ... tanley.pdf
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popcorn

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Unread post09 May 2018, 11:30

Here ya go...
bb.JPG
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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viper12

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Unread post09 May 2018, 12:54

What's TMS in the slide above ?
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Dragon029

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Unread post09 May 2018, 23:45

Thermal Management System; adaptive cycle engines are able to utilise their 3rd stream aka 2nd bypass flow to fit and feed additional heat exchangers.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post09 May 2018, 23:52

30% increase to a 690nm combat radius... Dang...
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popcorn

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Unread post10 May 2018, 01:06

Wondering how those figures for the notional 6Gen jet were derived?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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lrrpf52

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Unread post07 Jun 2018, 18:04

Any updates on the improved F135 compressor modules and whether the JPO is doing the air worthiness testing as part of the ITF?

Is this what that is, or just bringing up LRIP 1 and 2 to the standard?

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=53984
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weasel1962

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Unread post08 Jun 2018, 01:56

This was the latest I have on the issue for growth option 1.0.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 20-441331/

This is the latest for 2.0

https://www.jqknews.com/news/4439-22_to ... grade.html

3.0 is the AETP.
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zerion

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Unread post13 Jun 2018, 16:41

Pratt & Whitney is pitching a new version of the F-35 engine
By: Valerie Insinna  


WASHINGTON — Pratt & Whitney is developing upgrades to the F-35’s engine that will give it the power and cooling necessary to make the Defense Department’s most sensor-heavy fighter jet even more of a powerhouse.

The new Growth Option 2.0 upgrade for the F135 engine, launched on Tuesday, adds a more advanced power and thermal management system that could be used to help the F-35 incorporate new weapons and sensors, the company said.

It also integrates a new compressor and turbine technologies that yield greater thrust and fuel savings, which were part of the Growth Option 1.0 concept unveiled in 2017.

In a June 12 interview with Defense News, Matthew Bromberg, president of Pratt & Whitney’s military engines unit, said that the company decided to work on improvements to the F135’s power and thermal management system — or PTMS — based on feedback from the F-35 joint program office...

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... 35-engine/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post14 Jun 2018, 10:13

P&W Outlines New Plan for F-35 Engine Upgrades
13 Jun 2018 Chris Kjelgaard

"Pratt & Whitney has changed its proposed upgrade path for the F135 engine powering the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter. It is now offering two stages of improvements over a four-year period, compared with the three-stage, 10-year plan ending with a completely new engine that it revealed a year ago. The stages are labeled Growth Option 1.0 and 2.0 and include greater thrust, lower fuel burn, and better thermal management.

Matthew Bromberg, president of P&W Military Engines, said this week that since last year, P&W has combined the informally labeled “Growth 1A” thrust-increase option for the F-35B STOVL version, within the overall Growth Option 1.0 package. This package offers 10 percent more thrust than the F135’s current nominal 40,000 pounds, and 5 percent better fuel burn. But for the F-35B, P&W is working with Rolls-Royce to also provide a 5 percent increase in vertical thrust during the hover.

P&W previously described Growth Option 2.0 as an all-new production engine that would result from its adaptive-cycle research and development under the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory Advanced Engine Transition Program (AETP). Both General Electric and P&W are working on engineering, manufacturing, and development (EMD) contracts from the Pentagon for the AETP, which could power a sixth-generation fighter aircraft.

However, Bromberg said that Growth Option 2.0 for the F135 could now provide the F-35 with “a significant increase in power and thermal management capability” within four years, rather than being a completely new engine design, which might not be available until a decade hence.... [then a bunch of stuff about Growth Option 2.0]

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... e-upgrades
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post14 Jun 2018, 13:58

These numbers and improvement in F-22/35/15/16 performance must be hitting the Russians hard. Whole lotta vodka just got factored into PAK FA/SU-57 development...
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