GE Aims to Steal F-35 Engine Production!

All about the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the (cancelled) General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136
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jetblast16

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Unread post06 Aug 2016, 15:53

The GE4 most have been terribly loud lol. According to Wik(ed)pedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE4

Noise:
Takeoff: 104 dB
Sideline: 117 dB
Approach: 107 dB


50,000 lbf (220 kN) dry... :shock:
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Aug 2016, 17:00

jetblast16 wrote:The GE4 most have been terribly loud lol. According to Wik(ed)pedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE4

Noise:
Takeoff: 104 dB
Sideline: 117 dB
Approach: 107 dB


50,000 lbf (220 kN) dry... :shock:


That Wiki page says 63k in afterburner but it actually hit 69,900lbs. Pratt & Whitney's offer (JTF17) produced 59,000lbs thrust.

JTF17.jpg
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Unread post06 Aug 2016, 17:14

sferrin wrote:
aaam wrote:
That was because the Spey engines the UK insisted on rather than uprating the J-79 (higher thrust needed to launch from their smaller carriers) were also "fatter" with a larger frontal area. As speed increased drag rose to the point where it overcame the extra thrust to the point that Spey powered F-4s were slower.


Yep. Fatter nozzles too. (More base drag.)

The J79 also gained thrust in the dynamic region more than many other engines rated for higher thrust. It made more thrust installed at 35,000ft and at Mach 2.0 than it did uninstalled on a test stand.

J79-GE-10
Static Sea Level Standard 17,859 max AB
35,000ft M2.0 18,690 max AB
http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs ... hp?id=6759

By comparison the F110-GE-129 installed in an F-16 is SSL rated for 29,000+lbs (11,000lb more than J79-GE-10) makes an estimated 18,000lb (~700lb less than J79-GE-10) thrust at 35,000ft and M2.0.

And the GE-17 was the "hottest" of the J79 series allowing the F-104 to fly at M2.0 at 73,000 on 75% AB. An F-4 with engine modifications similar to the -17 hit M2.6 at the end of the speed run for Operation Skyburner.
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Unread post06 Aug 2016, 17:43

Skyburner had pre-compressor water alcohol injection. (So did the Mig-25E that got its time-to-climb records back from the F-15.) This was something DARPA looked at with RASCAL as well.
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 18:16

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... roduction/

"If there were any questions about GE's eventual goal for the AETP program, they were erased Monday when Jean-Lydon Rodgers, the company's head of military engines, told reporters at the Farnborough International Airshow that the company was designing the engine specifically to fit into the F-35."

"Work on that program (AETP) expires in September 2021, at which point the Air Force is expected to pick one of the designs to power future fighter aircraft."; the F-35, the USAF PCA, the USN NGAD and possibly the B-21.

The end of 2021 is the second year of the MYP-1 proposal and would complete delivery of approx. 734 F-35s total to the program. The following year 2022 delivers an additional 148 a/c, bringing the total up to 882 a/c (28% of the approx. 3,132 total F-35s).

If GE is awarded the F-35 AETP, the balance (72%) of the approx. 3,132 a/c or 2,250 a/c and engines would become AETP. What is not defined is the "new cost per item" for the AETP.

The LRIP 10 (delivery 2018) contract to PW for 99 F-135 engines was $1.95 billion or $19.7 million ea. (avg).
:)


....as an aside, the engine would be "in time (2021)" for the new (100ish) B-21 (four engine?) strategic bombers.
:)
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 18:53

neptune wrote:....as an aside, the engine would be "in time (2021)" for the new (100ish) B-21 (four engine?) strategic bombers.
:)


If true, then why bother awarding the B-21 engine contract to P&W as they did a year or two ago?

I believe it has been stated that the B-21 will be a twin engine. If not stated, then all the conjecture I have read to date has strongly implied it will be a twin.
Take an F-16, stir in a little A-7, bake, then sprinkle on a generous helping of F-117. What do you get? An F-35.
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 18:56

The 12 Jul 2016 GE AETP story started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=50585&p=346880&hilit=AETP#p346880
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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 00:41

steve2267 wrote:
neptune wrote:....as an aside, the engine would be "in time (2021)" for the new (100ish) B-21 (four engine?) strategic bombers.
:)


If true, then why bother awarding the B-21 engine contract to P&W as they did a year or two ago?

I believe it has been stated that the B-21 will be a twin engine. If not stated, then all the conjecture I have read to date has strongly implied it will be a twin.

I speculate that B-21 EMD and LRIP production may use dual F135s. This mitigates the risk of any delays in AETD-derived engines from adversely impacting the Raider timeline. Congress mandated that the new engine should have the same form factor as the F135 for compatibility with the F-35 so it would be easy to retrofit new engines to the new bomber.
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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 03:15

popcorn wrote:
steve2267 wrote:
neptune wrote:....as an aside, the engine would be "in time (2021)" for the new (100ish) B-21 (four engine?) strategic bombers.
:)


If true, then why bother awarding the B-21 engine contract to P&W as they did a year or two ago?

I believe it has been stated that the B-21 will be a twin engine. If not stated, then all the conjecture I have read to date has strongly implied it will be a twin.

I speculate that B-21 EMD and LRIP production may use dual F135s. This mitigates the risk of any delays in AETD-derived engines from adversely impacting the Raider timeline. Congress mandated that the new engine should have the same form factor as the F135 for compatibility with the F-35 so it would be easy to retrofit new engines to the new bomber.


....thank goodness we all have opinions or is it belly buttons??....so I will invest a Guiness (draft), that the B-21 strategic bomber will "have" four engines similar to the B-2, B-1B and Buff/2; name the bar where you can collect the investment! I'm thinking that with GE building their AETD to replace the F-135, it would mitigate any adverse delay; form and function!

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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 05:46

neptune wrote:
steve2267 wrote:If true, then why bother awarding the B-21 engine contract to P&W as they did a year or two ago?

I believe it has been stated that the B-21 will be a twin engine. If not stated, then all the conjecture I have read to date has strongly implied it will be a twin.


....thank goodness we all have opinions or is it belly buttons??....so I will invest a Guiness (draft), that the B-21 strategic bomber will "have" four engines similar to the B-2, B-1B and Buff/2; name the bar where you can collect the investment! I'm thinking that with GE building their AETD to replace the F-135, it would mitigate any adverse delay; form and function!

...Noah's Ark Bar & Grill (my second home!)
noahsarkbarandgrill.com
4438 Boulevard St, Bacliff, TX 77518
:pint:


If I came across as snide, I apologize.... NOT :poke: :mrgreen:

I do stand corrected however. After a quick google review, I see that nowhere has it been stated the number of engines. One web blog speculated two engines. Another said four.

But given that they are trying like the dickens to keep the cost down, and that mo weight ==> much mo money... and that there does in general seem to be some agreement that the B-21 will not weigh as much as the B-2 (back to the money thing) and may only carry one GBU-43/B MOAB... that suggests a slighly smaller airframe compared to the B-2. The B-2 made do with four 17,000lb class F118 GE turbofans... so if the airplane is a little smaller, it might very well do with two 28,000lb non-afterburning F135s.

So I'll see your Guiness and raise you a Chimay that the B-21 has only two motors. :cheers:

I don't have a dedicated watering hole around here, so I propose that dive Gums dragged me and BP to after the AFA "tour" this past August. I'll dig up the address around here somewhere...
Take an F-16, stir in a little A-7, bake, then sprinkle on a generous helping of F-117. What do you get? An F-35.
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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 06:08

steve2267 wrote:...So I'll see your Guiness and raise you a Chimay that the B-21 has only two motors. :cheers:

I don't have a dedicated watering hole around here, so I propose that dive Gums dragged me and BP to after the AFA "tour" this past August. I'll dig up the address around here somewhere...



McGuire’s Irish Pub
600 E Gregory St
Pensacola, FL 32502
Phone number (850) 433-6789

I've still got money tacked up there in several places!!, for another bowl of beans!
:cheers:
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