F-35 Lightning II vs Dassault Rafale

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 Apr 2019, 08:20

The Charles de Gaulle Carrier Strike Group and the John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group conduct operations at sea
15 Apr 2019 RED SEA Petty Officer 3rd Class Erika Kugler - USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74)

"Aircraft assigned to the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) and the French Marine Nationale aircraft carrier FS Charles de Gaulle (F 91), perform a fly over in the Red Sea, April 15, 2019. The John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group is deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of operations in support of naval operations to ensure maritime stability and security in the Central Region, connecting the Mediterranean and the Pacific through the western Indian Ocean and three strategic choke points. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Erika L. Kugler)"

JPG: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/5270996 (0.6Mb)

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5270996/ ... ations-sea
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Stennis&CdeGaircraftFlyOverApr2019.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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marsavian

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Unread post03 May 2019, 08:20

marsavian wrote:
marsavian wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/50-of-rs-59000-cr-rafale-price-paid-but-first-flight-in-oct-2022/amp_articleshow/67607182.cms

NEW DELHI: India has already paid more than half of the Rs 59,000 crore owed to France under the contract inked in 2016 for the 36 Rafale fighter jets, which will be delivered between November 2019 and April 2022.
The 13 India-specific enhancements or upgrades on the 36 jets will, however, become fully operational only by September-October 2022 as they will require another six months to undergo "software certification" after all of them have touched down in India.

The "non-recurring" design and development cost of the 13 ISEs or upgrades, which range from radar enhancements, low-band jammers and Israeli helmet-mounted displays to towed decoy systems and the engine capability for "cold start" from high-altitude regions, is pegged at 1.3 billion euros in the overall 7.8-billion-euro deal for the 36 Rafales.


More on the intricate details of the India Rafale deal

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 019165.ece
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2019011810 ... pposition/
https://mobile.twitter.com/PChidambaram ... 8512333825

In 2007, five years before M/s Dassault Aviation was declared the L1 vendor, that is, the Lowest Bidder and the presumptive winner of the tender floated by the United Progressive Alliance government for the supply of 126 Rafales (18 flyaway plus 108 to be manufactured, under licence, in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), the price quoted by the vendor for one flyaway bare-bones aircraft was €79.3 million. By 2011, the escalation cost factor had taken this per-aircraft price up to €100.85 million. In 2016, the 9% discount on the 2011 price obtained by the NDA government for the 36 Rafales it was buying from France through an Inter-Governmental Agreement brought this per-aircraft price down to €91.75 million.

But that is not even half the story. Dassault claimed a €1.4 billion cost for the ‘design and development’ of 13 India Specific Enhancements, that is, additional capabilities in the form of hardware as well as software that had been specified by the Indian Air Force all along, and this cost was negotiated down to €1.3 billion. What it meant was that the design and development cost, now distributed over 36 Rafale fighter jets, shot up from €11.11 million per aircraft in 2007 to €36.11 million when the deal was struck in 2016.


I wonder in light of recent border frictions if India will go all in with Rafale now and drop the local manufacturing aim of its modern fighter MRCA follow on competition.
Technically and price wise I see only Rafale and Gripen in the hunt leading to just the manufacturing difference however Rafale will have one foot in the door ...
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mixelflick

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Unread post03 May 2019, 13:55

You bring up an excellent point..

India is in a dire position. Swallowing its national pride and dropping the local production/tech transfer requirement may be necessary to achieve the modernization requirements it needs. Every day that ticks by those Mig-21's 27's, Mirage 2000's and even SU-30MKI's are growing longer in the tooth.

The poor showing in the latest border skirmish with PAK highlighted this, IMO. The situation is getting worse on all fronts: China now has stealth aircraft. India won't be getting the F-35, and if the J-31 takes off well, PAK has bought Chinese fighters before.

India needs to make a decision and fast. They are rapidly approaching a position of being unable to defend their borders, much less carry out deep interdiction missions into PAK or elsewhere.
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loke

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Unread post03 May 2019, 22:21

mixelflick wrote:You bring up an excellent point..

India is in a dire position. Swallowing its national pride and dropping the local production/tech transfer requirement may be necessary to achieve the modernization requirements it needs. Every day that ticks by those Mig-21's 27's, Mirage 2000's and even SU-30MKI's are growing longer in the tooth.

The poor showing in the latest border skirmish with PAK highlighted this, IMO. The situation is getting worse on all fronts: China now has stealth aircraft. India won't be getting the F-35, and if the J-31 takes off well, PAK has bought Chinese fighters before.

India needs to make a decision and fast. They are rapidly approaching a position of being unable to defend their borders, much less carry out deep interdiction missions into PAK or elsewhere.

It's funny to see the word "India" in the same sentence as "make a fast decision"... :D
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mixelflick

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Unread post04 May 2019, 14:00

loke wrote:
mixelflick wrote:You bring up an excellent point..

India is in a dire position. Swallowing its national pride and dropping the local production/tech transfer requirement may be necessary to achieve the modernization requirements it needs. Every day that ticks by those Mig-21's 27's, Mirage 2000's and even SU-30MKI's are growing longer in the tooth.

The poor showing in the latest border skirmish with PAK highlighted this, IMO. The situation is getting worse on all fronts: China now has stealth aircraft. India won't be getting the F-35, and if the J-31 takes off well, PAK has bought Chinese fighters before.

India needs to make a decision and fast. They are rapidly approaching a position of being unable to defend their borders, much less carry out deep interdiction missions into PAK or elsewhere.

It's funny to see the word "India" in the same sentence as "make a fast decision"... :D


Haha!!! :mrgreen:
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