F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2020, 15:15
by jessmo112
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada ... 00603.aspx

This part in particular caught my attention.

To help with the “flying under the radar proble” Iran apparently moved two of its Chinese JY-27 radar systems to Syria in early 2019. China claims the JY-27 is capable to detecting stealth aircraft and is better at detecting low flying aircraft. Later in 2019 Israel allegedly sent some of its F-35 stealth aircraft into Syria to destroy the JY-27 radars but were only partially successful. More likely the JY-27 radars were not the primary target of several successful Israeli airstrikes. The Syrians now believe that the JY-27 radar is somewhat better than their Russian radars at detecting low flying aircraft but not sufficiently better to regularly. Spot incoming Israeli airstrikes"

Its no surprise to me that the S-300 ect,
Are having difficulties killing F-35s
Its the audacity of both the Chinese and the Russians in the face of failure to come up with a solution, versus blaming.

1. How do you think this will play out in Moscow and Bejing. Its finally confirmed that your IADS will be slaughtered by U.S. tech.

2. How do you continue to build the anti-acess bubble if you cant keep fighters and bombers out.

3. The S-300 and S-400 have been advertised to stop stealth aircraft. Remember Air power Australia saying how the F-35 was a bust.
Surely someone on the enemies side is losing sleep trying ti plan. What will be the F-35 counter now that we KNOW S-300/400 and Chinese radars dont work?

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2020, 15:20
by jessmo112
More info that I didn't know.
http://defencenews.in/article/Western-T ... ria-583225


Last month, an Israeli satellite imagery analysis company ImageSat confirmed that Chinese-made JY-27 radar of the Syrian Air Defense at Damascus airport destroyed by Israeli airstrikes on January 20th.

No airstrike details were given and the quoted ImageSat did also not contain any further information but some source said that radar was destroyed by Israeli F-35i Adir fighter jets.

The source claims that F-35i Adir fighter jet of the Israeli Air Force has destroyed Chinese design JY-27 radar of the Syrian Air Defense near Damascus International Airport on 20 January.

The JY-27 radar of the Chinese manufacturer CETC is a fully solid-state and fully coherent long-range early warning system. It is designed and developed to provide early warning information and detect low-observable air targets in so-called “Stealth technology”, included F-35 and F-22 fighter aircraft. Besides, it provides the early warning information for weapons system as well.


One of the radars that for years was advertised as being able to give early warning of stealth aircraft.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2020, 15:34
by jessmo112

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2020, 02:36
by blindpilot
<sarc on>.
So basically the Chinese have a super anti stealth radar JY-27 that can destroy F-35's.

But unfortunately the one example operational war time installation mysteriously was taken out by a ? super secret? "drone," exactly when the F-35 was flying over and could have provided data for this critical question .... so we cannot know yet whether the 27 can take on the 35.

That's truly unfortunate. Perhaps we'll find out with the next installation ...
<snark off>

BP

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2020, 02:51
by Corsair1963
Chinese Anti-Stealth Radar........


:lmao:

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 23:17
by jessmo112

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 02:12
by charlielima223
Russian advance defense capabilities, smoke and mirror show?

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/06/una ... questions/

TEL AVIV: Israeli air strikes against targets in Syria may be one of the main reasons for the growing crisis between Russia and Turkey since they’re highlighting the Russian-made S-400 air defense systemsmay not be as effective as Turkey believed.

The first signs of dissatisfaction with the Russian air defense systems came on May 1 when the Syria Direct website ran a story quoting what was described as a Syrian military source who criticized the S-300 air defense systems supplied by Russia. The source pointed to the repeated failures of the Russian-made systems to protect sites in Syria from the Israeli strikes. The comments by the apparent Syrian military official was the first clear sign of a big dispute between Moscow and Ankara related to the operational efficiency of the air defense systems.
***
Last year, the Israeli air force hit more than 200 targets in Syria connected to the Iranian effort to upgrade  Hezbollah’s rockets. Some of those attacks have been reported to involve Israeli F-35s. The attacks continue apace this year with Syrian air defense forces having launched more than 1,000 surface-air missiles to try and foil the repeated Israeli attacks. They’ve had little effect so far.
***
An Israeli expert who spoke on condition of anonymity said the U.S has been put in an almost impossible situation.

“The Turkish government spat in the face of the U.S by buying the Russian-made missiles. The retaliation was fast. But the reality these days is very complicated, a fact that forces Washington to make two steps backward. When you have nuclear weapons on Turkish soil, a request for Patriot missiles (made by Erdogan in March) cannot be turned down.” Syria did manage to down an Israeli F-16 in February 2018, but the Israeli military later said the crew made an error when threatened.

Tal Inbar, an Israeli defense analyst, told Breaking Defense that the S-300 and S-400 have never been proved in action against advanced fighters. “In addition the S-400s in Turkey are not operational,” he noted, “so Ankara asked for the Patriots.”

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 03:08
by jessmo112
TEL AVIV: Israeli air strikes against targets in Syria may be one of the main reasons for the growing crisis between Russia and Turkey since they’re highlighting the Russian-made S-400 air defense systemsmay not be as effective as Turkey believed.

The first signs of dissatisfaction with the Russian

Wow ya think?.

No really..

1000 missiles fired and Not 1 F-35 destroyed or even tracked?

And now Turkey wants to crawl home like the prodigal son?

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 07:14
by hornetfinn
LOL, this should not come as surprise to Turkey. Being They definitely have an idea what kind of RCS F-35 has and how it affects radar performance. They should also have pretty good idea what kind of performance and capabilities the S-400 radars have. It should be pretty clear that if F-35 RCS is higher than stated by numerous sources and even if S-400 radars were better than claimed figures, even then S-400 would have serious trobule detecting and tracking F-35. Especially so when combined with the capability to detect, identify and geolocate numerous threat emitters. Add very capable jamming system and co-operative capabilities and things get even harder.

I would be truly pissed if I was a Turkish F-35 pilot trainee. I wonder how far they got with their training before it was stopped?

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 21:56
by magitsu
Their air force was also purged of some undesirables after the recent "coup attempt". Morale must be a bit low.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2020, 06:36
by jessmo112
Up next the S-500
I need one of those chalk boards that are photo shopped and show all of the weapons systems that dont work on
Russian gear.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-russia-being ... 00595.html

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2020, 18:30
by BDF
jessmo112 wrote:Up next the S-500
I need one of those chalk boards that are photo shopped and show all of the weapons systems that dont work on
Russian gear.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-russia-being ... 00595.html



“The S-500 is a blow against American prestige,” Almaz-Antey head engineer Pavel Sozinov told Russian media. “Our system neutralizes American offensive weapons, and surpasses all of America’s much-hyped anti-air and anti-missile systems.”


What utter bullshit.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2020, 15:37
by mixelflick
Now they're considering "enhancing" the S-400 with S-500 technology. Shazam..
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... ic-threats

Well, Syria could just buy SU-35's and rule the skies. Or not, according to this report..

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... out-on-top

I second the feeling bad for Turkish F-35 pilots that were in training. They had to have progressed pretty far, as delivery of F-35's to Turkey was just about to happen. Surely, they had to know how capable the aircraft/system was - especially in defeating the S-300/400. I bet nobody listened to them or worse, never asked their opinion of a face off between the two...

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2020, 20:45
by jessmo112
Those articles are long propaganda pieces?
How do the Chinese know that their missiles are the most advanced on earth? Have they ever been fired in anger? Have they ever been fired at an adversary trying to jamm, spoof, or evade?

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2020, 01:50
by weasel1962
Its a bit confusing. Chinese radars and Russki SAMs. So are the articles talking about the latter? In which case its Russian propaganda, not Chinese.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 22:02
by jessmo112
Another recent incident.

I think the idea of Israel releasing photos of deployed S-300s before hostilities a year ago is extremely funny.
Its almost like taunting them.

Additionally, satellite images released by Israeli intelligence firm ImageSat Intl (ISI) in July 2019 showed the complete deployment of four Russian-made S-300 missile defense systems in Syria’s Masyaf province.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/idf ... ort-630382

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 01:36
by zerion
US could buy Turkey’s Russian-made S-400 under Senate proposal

WASHINGTON ― The U.S. would be able to buy Turkey’s Russian-made S-400 air defense system under legislation proposed in the Senate last week. The proposal is one powerful lawmaker’s attempt to alleviate the impasse between Washington and Ankara over the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Senate Majority Whip John Thune, R-S.D., has proposed an amendment to the 2021 National Defense Authorization Act that would allow the purchase to be made using the U.S. Army’s missile procurement account. The move comes a year after the U.S. expelled NATO ally Turkey from the multinational F-35 program because it received the S-400 in a $2.5 billion deal.

However, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jim Risch, R-Idaho, has introduced an amendment that would take a tougher stance, mandating the Trump administration implement CAATSA sanctions on Turkey within 30 days of passage of the NDAA. Risch has been critical of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and accused him of bad faith in dealings with the U.S. over the S-400...

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... -proposal/


Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 02:13
by Corsair1963
zerion wrote:
US could buy Turkey’s Russian-made S-400 under Senate proposal

WASHINGTON ― The U.S. would be able to buy Turkey’s Russian-made S-400 air defense system under legislation proposed in the Senate last week. The proposal is one powerful lawmaker’s attempt to alleviate the impasse between Washington and Ankara over the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Senate Majority Whip John Thune, R-S.D., has proposed an amendment to the 2021 National Defense Authorization Act that would allow the purchase to be made using the U.S. Army’s missile procurement account. The move comes a year after the U.S. expelled NATO ally Turkey from the multinational F-35 program because it received the S-400 in a $2.5 billion deal.

However, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jim Risch, R-Idaho, has introduced an amendment that would take a tougher stance, mandating the Trump administration implement CAATSA sanctions on Turkey within 30 days of passage of the NDAA. Risch has been critical of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and accused him of bad faith in dealings with the U.S. over the S-400...

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... -proposal/



Don't see Russia allowing Turkey to sell the S-400 to the US.... :roll:

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 03:59
by madrat
Pffft. Buy our technology back? S-400 is old water under the bridge. At least we can make it out to be a threat until the Chinese get a comparable system that is exportable, then we can make that the reason to justify NGAD and every other gold-plated future procurement program.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 15:15
by mixelflick
weasel1962 wrote:Its a bit confusing. Chinese radars and Russki SAMs. So are the articles talking about the latter? In which case its Russian propaganda, not Chinese.


Plenty of both out there.

Of course, when the next large scale conflict in the ME kicks off we can expect to see the F-35/S-400 matchup at its finest. Until then, Israel will use its F-35's to knock off Russian/Chinese radars and SAM's one or two at a time. If and when they take down an entire S-400 battery and/or destroy whatever's left of Syria, the Russians, Chinese and whoever bought their IADS are goign to face a day of reckoning.

All that $ spent on something, that didn't work as advertised. Now what?

Not going to be pretty, because outside of China - there will be no stealth aircraft to lean on... until they find a better answer.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2020, 16:17
by jessmo112
The Russians Claim that the S-400 is the only system that can take out the F-35.

https://eurasiantimes.com/with-us-f-35s ... 0-systems/


However, the S-400s are uniquely designed to counter its stealth technology which masters in identifying and tracking stealth aircraft and hypersonic targets, almost nullifying the F-35’s most renowned feature.

It has been one of the reasons why Donald Trump is unable to bear the idea of his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin widely exporting it to other nations, with the US even imposed economic sanctions on countries for buying the defense systems.


I actually had to check the date of this article to make sure this wasnt written 10 years ago.
Did I miss something? I'M almost certain that both the F-22 and F-35 have been flying race track figure 8s over S-300/400 for years now. Are the Russians denial or just stupid? Surely if Israel thought that the F-35 was a failure versus the S-300 family they would stop buying them.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2020, 21:37
by ricnunes
jessmo112 wrote: Are the Russians denial or just stupid?


Neither one or the other. The answer is: propaganda.

Re: F-35 Versus S-300/400/HQ-9

Unread postPosted: 08 Sep 2020, 00:43
by weasel1962
aka product marketing. Big export market for SAMs.

Its actually good for US. Every chinese yuan spent on a useless system is one yuan less on something that works.