F-35 JSF vs Eurofighter Typhoon

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Dragon029

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1076
  • Joined: 22 Dec 2014, 07:13

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 00:00

I think you misread the article, the first paragraph explicitly says that the F-35 can communicate with the Typhoon via Link-16:

The Typhoon is already equipped to send and receive data with the F-35s on Link 16, a NATO-standard datalink
.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19224
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 00:06

"...The Typhoon is already equipped to send and receive data with the F-35s on Link 16, a NATO-standard datalink...."

Chucking in MADL after that seems erroneous - because the TYPHOID does not have MADL - sob sob sob. Get with it MADL.

OOOPsss did not see the 'Dragon029' earlier reply. Oh well.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Online

mas

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 136
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 13:16

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 07:18

Typhoon at Red Flag, best of the non-stealthy rest ?

https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/ ... the-target

Captain (OF-2) Joaquín Ducay, who helped plan the Unit’s tactical approach to Red Flag, says: “The overall picture was impressive. Our standard was a little bit higher than conventional aircraft, we survived through most of the bombing sorties and we had a high air-to-air kill ratio. I can’t say the exact numbers but, for example, I know that on one of my missions there were a total of 32 kills and my wingman and I had 12 of them between us.

It was good to see that on missions when we were flying with bombs we were still capable of reacting to air-to-ground threats, and make air-to-air kills at the same time. That’s not something everyone is able to do. But that’s really thanks to our training and the aircraft. The Eurofighter allows you to multi-task like crazy.”

The unit found themselves flying with and against F-15Cs, F-15 Strike Eagle, F-16s and several others but contrary to some reports they did not fly with or against any F-35s.
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 718
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 11:33

mas wrote:It was good to see that on missions when we were flying with bombs we were still capable of reacting to air-to-ground threats, and make air-to-air kills at the same time. That’s not something everyone is able to do. But that’s really thanks to our training and the aircraft. The Eurofighter allows you to multi-task like crazy.”


Good to know that the Typhoon, an aircraft that entered in service after 2003 is able to do what 1980's-era F/A-18s were already able to do since 1991 in real combat(TM)... :roll:
Offline

tincansailor

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 633
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2015, 20:06

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 21:08

[
quote="mas"]Typhoon at Red Flag, best of the non-stealthy rest ?

https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/ ... the-target

Captain (OF-2) Joaquín Ducay, who helped plan the Unit’s tactical approach to Red Flag, says: “The overall picture was impressive. Our standard was a little bit higher than conventional aircraft, we survived through most of the bombing sorties and we had a high air-to-air kill ratio. I can’t say the exact numbers but, for example, I know that on one of my missions there were a total of 32 kills and my wingman and I had 12 of them between us.

It was good to see that on missions when we were flying with bombs we were still capable of reacting to air-to-ground threats, and make air-to-air kills at the same time. That’s not something everyone is able to do. But that’s really thanks to our training and the aircraft. The Eurofighter allows you to multi-task like crazy.”

The unit found themselves flying with and against F-15Cs, F-15 Strike Eagle, F-16s and several others but contrary to some reports they did not fly with or against any F-35s.

[/quote]

Wow. What kind of kill ratio against F-15Cs is he claiming? He and his wingman shoot down 12 in one engagement? 32 kills in one mission? I don't know how many aircraft were engaged, but that sounds like a total slaughter. He seems to be saying the Typhoon completely overmatches the F-15C, F-15E. and the F-16. The Typhoon is a generation newer, but I don't see any factor that would allow them to overwhelm updated F-15Cs, or to easily defeat Batteries of Patriot Missiles. What magic powers do they have that I don't know about?
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 718
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 21:43

tincansailor wrote:Wow. What kind of kill ratio against F-15Cs is he claiming? He and his wingman shoot down 12 in one engagement? 32 kills in one mission? I don't know how many aircraft were engaged, but that sounds like a total slaughter. He seems to be saying the Typhoon completely overmatches the F-15C, F-15E. and the F-16. The Typhoon is a generation newer, but I don't see any factor that would allow them to overwhelm updated F-15Cs, or to easily defeat Batteries of Patriot Missiles. What magic powers do they have that I don't know about?


The BS kind of magic. :roll:

Also of interesting note is the following from the Typhoon's pilot:

The unit found themselves flying with and against F-15Cs, F-15 Strike Eagle, F-16s and several others but contrary to some reports they did not fly with or against any F-35s.


What are these "several other" aircraft??
F-5s?? If yes, no wonder how they managed a high kill numbers/ratio... :roll:
Offline

optimist

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 437
  • Joined: 20 Nov 2014, 03:34

Unread post14 Nov 2017, 21:57

It's the same with the f-35. Like all training exercises, red has ROE and can fly as other planes profiles and weapons, to act as a realistic threat. Red starts off easy and builds up the threat level as the exercise progresses. The object of the exercise is training. It's not to leave the blue pilots in tears, laying on the tarmac in a fetal position and crying out for their mummy.
The tend not to say, what threat level the F15/16 and ground threats were representing, when these results are talked about.

Our own force has exercises with red and blue fa-18 legacy hornets, with similar blue results, obviously the red fa-18 weren't in their flight profiles,trons and weapons and were another threat.
Online

mas

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 136
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 13:16

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 00:03

I think the standard Nellis aggressor squadrons are F-16C. From reports of that Red Flag I did not see any mention of any guest aggressors. The Typhoon radar is supposed to outrange the F-16 radar apart from the new AESA one so presumably these kills came at range.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19224
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 00:40

Info about participant aircraft: http://aviationphotodigest.com/exercise-red-flag-17-2/
"...Red Flag 17-2 also featured non-DoD participation from Draken International with the classic Douglas A-4 Skyhawk...."
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline

optimist

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 437
  • Joined: 20 Nov 2014, 03:34

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 01:09

Even the f-16 with aesa, if the Roe are that the blue is acquired at 80nm and targeted at 20nm. That is what the red Roe are set at.
Offline

f-16adf

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 17:46

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 01:24

I could be full of BS, but I think those USAF aggressor F-16C's are Block 32 (with the weak -220 engine). Also, the Eagles probably flew with 2 external fuel tanks. So really, even if the EF had a substantial kill ratio ....look at what they were fighting-
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3744
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 05:49

All depends on the details....otherwise just wild speculation on either side. :?
Offline

kimjongnumbaun

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 21:41

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 10:02

I think it's a bit unfair to accept Red Flag F-35 KDRs without question, and then scrutinize Typhoon KDRs. F-35s are going up against the same aggressor squadrons as the Typhoon. That being said, the Typhoon pilot didn't give us how many times they died or what their KDR was against any specific type(air vs surface targets).
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 718
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 11:13

kimjongnumbaun wrote:I think it's a bit unfair to accept Red Flag F-35 KDRs without question, and then scrutinize Typhoon KDRs. F-35s are going up against the same aggressor squadrons as the Typhoon. That being said, the Typhoon pilot didn't give us how many times they died or what their KDR was against any specific type(air vs surface targets).


You basically gave one of the reasons why most here accept the F-35's Read Flag kill ratio reports and are suspicious about those Typhoon kill ratio reports:
- The report/claim by those Typhoon pilots don't say/report how many times they were shot down in exchange for their kills. As opposed the F-35 Red Flag reports clearly states this: The F-35s shot down 20 (twenty) "enemy aircraft" for each F-35 that was show down in exchange. This in itself tells a lot about the credibility of one report against the other.
- It was also and clearly stated that the scenario/"enemy" opposition that the F-35 had to face during Red Flag was the hardest ever set up for against any aircraft, present or past.

Resuming, the F-35 reports are more credible because it comes with a considerable number of information backing it up, this instead of an only "me and my wingman shot down XX enemy planes" like happens with the Typhoon "report" which sound more like a "claim" than an actual report.
Offline

kimjongnumbaun

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 21:41

Unread post15 Nov 2017, 12:39

ricnunes wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:I think it's a bit unfair to accept Red Flag F-35 KDRs without question, and then scrutinize Typhoon KDRs. F-35s are going up against the same aggressor squadrons as the Typhoon. That being said, the Typhoon pilot didn't give us how many times they died or what their KDR was against any specific type(air vs surface targets).


You basically gave one of the reasons why most here accept the F-35's Read Flag kill ratio reports and are suspicious about those Typhoon kill ratio reports:
- The report/claim by those Typhoon pilots don't say/report how many times they were shot down in exchange for their kills. As opposed the F-35 Red Flag reports clearly states this: The F-35s shot down 20 (twenty) "enemy aircraft" for each F-35 that was show down in exchange. This in itself tells a lot about the credibility of one report against the other.
- It was also and clearly stated that the scenario/"enemy" opposition that the F-35 had to face during Red Flag was the hardest ever set up for against any aircraft, present or past.

Resuming, the F-35 reports are more credible because it comes with a considerable number of information backing it up, this instead of an only "me and my wingman shot down XX enemy planes" like happens with the Typhoon "report" which sound more like a "claim" than an actual report.


I don't doubt the F-35 reports on Red Flag. But I'm also not as quick to judge the Typhoon reports. The difference is that we are lacking the information on how many times the Typhoon died in combat. For all we know, the Typhoon could have achieved a 1:1 ratio, but that still wouldn't discount the information that was provided. The fact that they aren't willing to tell says a lot.
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 versus XYZ

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: glennwhitten and 7 guests