eloise wrote:
F-35 has various IR reduction features that Eurofighter doesn't, so f-35 will be much less vulnerable to IRST
You would think so, especially if the Euro is higher and faster but then again, if the F-35 is lower its larger surface areas from the top are clearer, and arguably so will its exhaust plumes than if it was in a stronger position level with the Typhoon. Course, do not forget until it has SIdewinder or ASRAAm the F-35 is stuck with its radar guided weapons so at some point, either the aircraft or the missile (probably both) will have to bathe the Typhoon in radiation.
Also in the same way the F-35 has IR reduction features, bear in mind the Typhoon despite not being a dedicated stealth aircraft is smaller physically and has stealth features itself. I would be skeptical saying the F-35's IR reduction at high altitude and its relatively hot frame against -40 or -50 outside temperatures (Despite your disagreements with the article, it does point out that interesting factor of the hot measurement devices under the nose of the aircraft which I had not had in mind before) vs the PIRATE sensors of the Typhoon. I would of course also be skeptical of how much closer the later F-series planes (F-35 and F-22) would have to be to detect a Typhoon in regards to its stealth characteristics.
F-35 doesn't have to fly much lower, as long as it fly even a bit lower, Eurofighter's IRTS will look at the F-35 within surface backgrounds while F-35's IRST will look at Eurofighter within Sky background, since infrared radiation from surface is much higher, it will be much easier
Do you mind sourcing me something for this? Especially at higher altitudes? See in my mind if they are at high altitudes surely the cold cover will be below the F-35, making it clear as day with all the above pointed out, especially if moving at speeds and its exhaust plumes and what not will be clearer from above of course than if it was from the front. Meanwhile, above the clouds the F-35 may well be looking into the sun if its day. I suspect at such alttiudes both will be able to detect the eachother well beyond weapon ranges with IRST.
Also, flying higher mean you are flying in thinner air, which mean it would be much harder to maneuverable and evade missiles.
Perhaps, honestly I am not sure how much of a difference it would make statistically speaking but I also would consider the fact the F-35 will be a slower aircraft trying to strike "up" at a faster, faster climbing higher alttiude aircraft which has the advances from the opposite perspective, from its higher perch would give its missiles incredible energy. In fact if I recall the supercruise alone of the Typhoon would boost is missile range up to 50%, how much more energy even equal armament (AMRAAM) the Typhoons weapon would have with that combined with it shooting "down" on the F-35 is likely going to give it huge advantages at first shot, first kill, even greater if its Meteor armed vs a F-35 still shuffling along with AMRAAM.
Which brings me to a question, does AMRAAM have any decent capability at BVR, any good statistics for it able to hit even an aircraft on equal footing (other than a higher, faster one with a huge amount of defensive aids)?
Some sources suggest it cannot get favorable results against even non maneuvering aircraft or helicopters.
I wonder how close the F-35 would need to get to have any chance of hitting a Typhoon in our situation given here.
Though not yet, there are plans to modify the internal weapon bay to allow for 6 internal AAMs
Yes I thought so.
So in summary so far, the
F-35 struggles are against a higher flying, faster (climbing too) aircraft which will in return have vastly greater reach among other advantages from its higher perch and at least against non RAF/EU F-35's those changes will be even more severe if compared between a AMRAAM and a Meteor equipped F-35. It also has a limited weapons capability, currently it has a measly 4 missiles so any shot must be almost assured lest it risk just waiting all its armament AND giving itself away at the same time and in the future (upgraded bay) you could be still looking at armament just over half that of a typhoon.
While the [b]Typhoons struggles[/quote] are just finding the F-35 which may or not be a problem depending on altitude and heat output of the F-35. It needs not worry about any other disadvantage and although were not likely to know due to classified information even the F-35 may not detect it favorably (in regards to getting clear shots with its AMRAAM) with its radar in regards to the Typhoons own size/stealth reduction features without actively scanning and potentially giving itself away in the process.
Course if I was going to do a bit of arm chair generalling

I would keep the Typhoon at altitude and if PIRATE does not find/track it by itself I would use the sensor fusion between PIRATE and captor to judge where the F-35 is likely to be even if I cannot find its actual trajectory and what have you. I would of course not keep the radar active and likely switch off any non passive systems I can live without after any limited pulse and if I am fighting an F-35 I would outfit 6 AMRAAM and 4 ASRAAM, using maybe one ASRAAM to fire into the estimated trajectory of the F-35 and using the missiles IR sensor (Like to call it the eye) to potentially get a kill if my estimation is correct.
This is all assuming the PIRATE does not find the F-35 with ease of course, at typical air to air altitudes I have no reason to suggest otherwise, I have seen enough stealth aircraft (
F-22.
F-35,
B-2) and this is at low altitudes most of the time or at comparatively low speed, not aircraft trying to push the reach of their missiles.
Too low and slow and the low weapon load carrying F-35 could be analogized to a spear-men trying to poke up at an archer on the battlements.
I will be honest, as interesting as this discussion is, I cannot get used to the posting system. I am not always sure if my post was sent and only being able to post once per day is also quite vexing so this may be my last post here in any case.
I hope you all enjoy the discussions. Maybe I will return when CAPTOR-E and Meteor are in full swing and the F-35 is in its final/more mature block stages. Course, we may get some information in some of the exercises they will be flying together, in any case they will likely work to each-others strengths in the coming years and will be a great team against the potential threat of the SU meanace!
So cheerio chaps, and jolly good luck.