“I Would Want the F-35; There’s No Question

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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quicksilver

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shania

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Unread post03 Aug 2018, 08:35

This week, maintainers will launch forty sorties a day for four days straight without building any down time into the flying schedule. Historically, on legacy aircraft and the F-35, maintenance losses are built into the schedule to account for any issues.

“We haven’t done this before and we wouldn’t even be trying it if we didn’t have the confidence in the jet. The data we have backs us up,” Engel said.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post03 Aug 2018, 16:01

"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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popcorn

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 00:36

SpudmanWP wrote:Source for the above quote:

https://www.hill.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... m-matures/

A great read. Giving the jet to brand new pilots whose brains haven't been hardwired with 4gen thinking will unleash the jet's full potential.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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elvis1

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 02:21

popcorn wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Source for the above quote:

https://www.hill.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... m-matures/

A great read. Giving the jet to brand new pilots whose brains haven't been hardwired with 4gen thinking will unleash the jet's full potential.

It might take more than that to unleash the full potential--it looks like there is a lot of potential there. It will be the gift that keeps giving for a long time (in a very good way).
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steve2267

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 03:29

"Yes, sir, Colonel sir... I just wrote this little Python script... touched this doohickey button over here on the flat panel and WALLA! the APG-81 beamed my virus to the two SU-35's... who then targeted each other while I sipped my mocha cruising at 40k. Didn't even have to pull any gees... Will I still get credit for the two kills?"
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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mr.gibbys

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Unread post05 Aug 2018, 23:55

shania wrote:
This week, maintainers will launch forty sorties a day for four days straight without building any down time into the flying schedule. Historically, on legacy aircraft and the F-35, maintenance losses are built into the schedule to account for any issues.

“We haven’t done this before and we wouldn’t even be trying it if we didn’t have the confidence in the jet. The data we have backs us up,” Engel said.


Does this mean maintenance hours are going down?
Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Aug 2018, 12:50

steve2267 wrote:"Yes, sir, Colonel sir... I just wrote this little Python script... touched this doohickey button over here on the flat panel and WALLA! the APG-81 beamed my virus to the two SU-35's... who then targeted each other while I sipped my mocha cruising at 40k. Didn't even have to pull any gees... Will I still get credit for the two kills?"


"... so you modified the code yourself, broke something unrelated, and THAT'S your excuse for landing gear-up? :doh: " :wink:
"There I was. . ."
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steve2267

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Unread post06 Aug 2018, 17:05

sferrin wrote:
steve2267 wrote:"Yes, sir, Colonel sir... I just wrote this little Python script... touched this doohickey button over here on the flat panel and WALLA! the APG-81 beamed my virus to the two SU-35's... who then targeted each other while I sipped my mocha cruising at 40k. Didn't even have to pull any gees... Will I still get credit for the two kills?"


"... so you modified the code yourself, broke something unrelated, and THAT'S your excuse for landing gear-up? :doh: " :wink:


Damn... I better stop playing Space Invaders on those long cross countries too... :doh:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 Aug 2018, 18:18

mr.gibbys wrote:
shania wrote:
This week, maintainers will launch forty sorties a day for four days straight without building any down time into the flying schedule. Historically, on legacy aircraft and the F-35, maintenance losses are built into the schedule to account for any issues.

“We haven’t done this before and we wouldn’t even be trying it if we didn’t have the confidence in the jet. The data we have backs us up,” Engel said.


Does this mean maintenance hours are going down?

That would be the implication, along with increased MC rates.
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smsgtmac

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Unread post06 Aug 2018, 23:01

mr.gibbys wrote:
shania wrote:
This week, maintainers will launch forty sorties a day for four days straight without building any down time into the flying schedule. Historically, on legacy aircraft and the F-35, maintenance losses are built into the schedule to account for any issues.

“We haven’t done this before and we wouldn’t even be trying it if we didn’t have the confidence in the jet. The data we have backs us up,” Engel said.


Does this mean maintenance hours are going down?

Maintenance Man-hours/Flying Hours have never been an issue, and pretty much the same case for crew size. MMH/FH Kicks A** compared to other fighters. Some reporting has included down time for mods as maintenance, and the Euroshill at Defence-Aerospace had (another) failed attempt at applied math by dividing all kinds of maintenance by all kinds of dollars to make up a number, but that's about it. MTTR has been mentioned in reports, but without concern to MMH/FH. MTTR iis driven by lots of non-labor factors.
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Unread post08 Aug 2018, 02:27

smsgtmac wrote:
mr.gibbys wrote:
Does this mean maintenance hours are going down?

Maintenance Man-hours/Flying Hours have never been an issue, and pretty much the same case for crew size. MMH/FH Kicks A** compared to other fighters. Some reporting has included down time for mods as maintenance, and the Euroshill at Defence-Aerospace had (another) failed attempt at applied math by dividing all kinds of maintenance by all kinds of dollars to make up a number, but that's about it. MTTR has been mentioned in reports, but without concern to MMH/FH. MTTR iis driven by lots of non-labor factors.


iirc Maintenance man-hours/flying hours for the F-35 were around 10 to 1 (compared to something like 6 to 1 for a hornet), and is more expensive per hour. This is supposed to go down with ALIS which isn't being used yet, but the implication here that block 3F has helped maintenance somehow, which sounds great.
Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.
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steve2267

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Unread post08 Aug 2018, 04:11

mr.gibbys wrote:iirc Maintenance man-hours/flying hours for the F-35 were around 10 to 1 (compared to something like 6 to 1 for a hornet), and is more expensive per hour. This is supposed to go down with ALIS which isn't being used yet, but the implication here that block 3F has helped maintenance somehow, which sounds great.


Say what!?! ALIS isn't being used yet? It's only up to release 3.somethingorother. I understand it has had teething pains -- is that to which you refer?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post08 Aug 2018, 04:44

mr.gibbys wrote:iirc Maintenance man-hours/flying hours for the F-35 were around 10 to 1 (compared to something like 6 to 1 for a hornet), and is more expensive per hour. This is supposed to go down with ALIS which isn't being used yet, but the implication here that block 3F has helped maintenance somehow, which sounds great.



ALIS has been used and implemented for quite some time now. I've spoken with Marine maintainers who use it.
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Unread post08 Aug 2018, 05:25

A quick check of annual RCPFH numbers (released in the fall of every year) shows that the F-35's RCPFH numbers are:
    Falling at a steady rate while 4th gen costs are relatively steady.
    Already below the F-15E


Here is the history of the F-35A vs peer 4th gen US jets in an apples-2-apples comparison since 2014.

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