F-35 vs all non-thrust vectored fighter jets

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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count_to_10

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 00:03

mixelflick wrote:This whole comparison via youtube of post stall maneuvers F-35 vs. PAK FA conjures up visions of Indian Jones for me.

You know, the one where the karate master goes through all his fancy karate moves, then Indiana Jones pulls out his 357 magnum (or whatever) and blows him to smithereens...

Guess who Indiana Jones is in this example? :D

Um, you mean the scimitar whielding Arab?
The funny thing is that he was scripted to take out his whip and beat the swordsman that way, but Ford was sick that day, and pulled his gun as a joke.
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sferrin

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 00:59

mixelflick wrote:This whole comparison via youtube of post stall maneuvers F-35 vs. PAK FA conjures up visions of Indian Jones for me.

You know, the one where the karate master goes through all his fancy karate moves, then Indiana Jones pulls out his 357 magnum (or whatever) and blows him to smithereens...

Guess who Indiana Jones is in this example? :D


"There I was. . ."
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mixelflick

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 01:40

Nice!!! :mrgreen:
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f-16adf

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 03:11

Ouch........the flopping, flipping Flanker took a beating, Lol!!!!
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arian

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 05:18

mixelflick wrote:This whole comparison via youtube of post stall maneuvers F-35 vs. PAK FA conjures up visions of Indian Jones for me.

You know, the one where the karate master goes through all his fancy karate moves, then Indiana Jones pulls out his 357 magnum (or whatever) and blows him to smithereens...

Guess who Indiana Jones is in this example? :D


Couldn't agree more. All these threads about airshow maneuverability seem pointless to me. Last time two planes got in a fist fight was 45 years ago.
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gc

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 07:38

Exactly! :D
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ricnunes

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 10:10

mixelflick wrote:This whole comparison via youtube of post stall maneuvers F-35 vs. PAK FA conjures up visions of Indian Jones for me.

You know, the one where the karate master goes through all his fancy karate moves, then Indiana Jones pulls out his 357 magnum (or whatever) and blows him to smithereens...

Guess who Indiana Jones is in this example? :D


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 10:36

arian wrote:Couldn't agree more. All these threads about airshow maneuverability seem pointless to me. Last time two planes got in a fist fight was 45 years ago.


I thought there was one in desert storm?

USAF F-15Cs vs. IRAF MiG-29s
Two F-15Cs, piloted by Captains Craig Underhill and Cesar Rodriguez gave chase to a pair of MiG-29s detected by AWACS. The Iraqi aircraft, one piloted by Captain Jameel Sayhood, promptly turned and engaged the two American fighters, and one of the most dramatic dogfights of the Persian Gulf War ensued. The two MiGs and F-15s flew straight at each other, each attempting to visually identify the other. Underhill was facing Sayhood's wingman, while Sayhood himself was facing Rodriguez. Underhill fired an AIM-7 at Sayhood's wingman, scoring a head-on hit and killing the opposing pilot instantly. Simultaneously, Sayhood gained a lock on Rodriguez, throwing him onto the defensive. Rodriguez dove to low altitude in order to clutter Sayhood's radar and break the lock-on, and dropped flares to counter his adversary's infra-red search-and-track. However, after seeing his wingman shot down, Sayhood disengaged and fled to the north. Considering the engagement over, Rodriguez and Underhill turned south to rendezvous with a KC-135 tanker in order to refuel, but Sayhood reversed course and set off after them, prompting them to reengage. With the now lone MiG-29 closing head-on with the pair of F-15s, Underhill gained radar lock-on, but did not fire due to a glitch in his IFF interrogator system keeping him from being certain he wasn't about to shoot down a Coalition aircraft. Underhill initially thought he shot down an allied aircraft. Sayhood sliced into the American formation, causing a classic merge. Underhill kept Sayhood locked-on and climbed, while Rodriguez committed to the merge in order to visually identify the opposing aircraft as hostile. As they passed head-on, Rodriguez identified it as an Iraqi, and each pilot turned left to engage the other. Sayhood was relying on his MiG's better turning radius to get into a firing position on Rodriguez' tail but Rodriguez was very close to firing position on him. Both aircraft lost altitude through the sustained hard turning, bringing them perilously close to the ground. Fearing that Rodriguez would obtain infra-red lock-on and shoot him down with an AIM-9, Sayhood attempted to disengage using a split-s. Rodriguez didn't match Sayhood's maneuver, and observed him eject just prior to his MiG impacting the ground - he'd commenced his escape maneuver too low. It was reported years later by Iraqi sources that the Captain was rescued by some farmers after he broke his leg and evacuated to a local hospital
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hornetfinn

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 11:56

It seems like F-35 sensors and systems would've been extremely helpful in that Desert Storm situation. It definitely sounds like SA and IFF was the biggest problem there and not really maneuverability or flight performance.
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:03

sferrin wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This whole comparison via youtube of post stall maneuvers F-35 vs. PAK FA conjures up visions of Indian Jones for me.

You know, the one where the karate master goes through all his fancy karate moves, then Indiana Jones pulls out his 357 magnum (or whatever) and blows him to smithereens...

Guess who Indiana Jones is in this example? :D




This reminds me about the Red Flag 2008, F-15 vs Su-30MKI.
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f-16adf

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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:07

And no one is taking into account a VERY VERY important aspect concerning aircraft performance in these airshow videos:.....DENSITY ALTITUDE :doh:
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:09

Atmosphere condition plays a big role in the form of vortice.
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:18

I have almost 2,000 hours on general aviation type aircraft (granted I fly for leisure and did the CFI). And I can say that when it is 60 degrees outside with low humidity, my RG performs better than when it is 90 degrees and humid. Also field elevation must be taken into consideration.


If they fly on the same day (under the same conditions, obviously at the same field elevation) then maybe it "could" be valid; But showing vids from different years, when absent are the corresponding DA's then it probably is pretty pointless unless there is a giant "built in" difference in aircraft performance. Granted, I am guilty of showing airshow vids, however, there generally was a GIGANTIC difference in what I have previously posted. Generally I posted F-16 B30/40 v F-14B/D. And the Tomcat is a slug compared to the F-16 B30/40, comparison is not even close....


You could PM actual Viper pilots and get their 2 cents. Get JB's opinion on the matter and see if i'm full of ****-
Last edited by f-16adf on 28 Jul 2017, 14:43, edited 3 times in total.
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:34

I just googled "Red Flag 2008 Su-30".
The amount of butthurt Indians... oh boy.
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Unread post28 Jul 2017, 14:41

juretrn wrote:I just googled "Red Flag 2008 Su-30".
The amount of butthurt Indians... oh boy.


Here we go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KBmv6HBltM

What I heard:

...no where near the Raptor. We've got used to fight the raptor so we thought OK dude, this is easy. So we pulled in on him, and all of a sudden he had his a$$ kicked down into vector thrust and started to fall out of the sky. He's falling out of the sky so fast that you needn't go up, you just needed to pull your stick back a little bit to move the throttle, go to gun and come in and drill his brain.
Last edited by gta4 on 28 Jul 2017, 14:46, edited 1 time in total.
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