F-35 versus Typhoon

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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vanshilar

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 12:02

According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of the future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.


In other words, she bought into (or is at least peddling) the claim that the F-35 has frontal-aspect stealth only, like it's the J-20 or something. So it was probably just some simple simulation again.

Meanwhile, wouldn't the F-35 detect the emissions from the AWACS, and know how to get around them or shoot them down?

Additionally, I presume at the start of each engagement the AWACS are closer to the Typhoons. I wonder if the F-35 could pick up on the AWACS signals bouncing off of the Typhoons and use them to know where the Typhoons are :devil:
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charlielima223

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 12:11

vanshilar wrote:
In other words, she bought into (or is at least peddling) the claim that the F-35 has frontal-aspect stealth only, like it's the J-20 or something. So it was probably just some simple simulation again.

Meanwhile, wouldn't the F-35 detect the emissions from the AWACS, and know how to get around them or shoot them down?

Additionally, I presume at the start of each engagement the AWACS are closer to the Typhoons. I wonder if the F-35 could pick up on the AWACS signals bouncing off of the Typhoons and use them to know where the Typhoons are :devil:


I think I read somewhere that the F-22 and F-35 have the capability with their EW suites with their sensor fusion that they have a display that tells them their radar spike signature or something. Also that the F-22 and F-35 also have a visual representation of some kind of the electronic battle space. If those two features are indeed true, F-22 and F-35 would have a very easy time in evading as well as knowing where and when to strike.
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botsing

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 12:36

vanshilar wrote:
According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of the future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.


In other words, she bought into (or is at least peddling) the claim that the F-35 has frontal-aspect stealth only, like it's the J-20 or something. So it was probably just some simple simulation again.

I think this has to do with two spikes in the radar deflection of the F-35 around the 30 degree angle from the front:

Image

If those spikes are real then you have the biggest chance of detecting an F-35 that is moving towards your position at that angle

At the time of his (it's a male) remarks these RCS calculations were about all they could build on. Those calculations did not take into account RAM and other stealth tweaks.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 15:16

vanshilar wrote:
According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of the future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.


In other words, she bought into (or is at least peddling) the claim that the F-35 has frontal-aspect stealth only, like it's the J-20 or something. So it was probably just some simple simulation again.

Meanwhile, wouldn't the F-35 detect the emissions from the AWACS, and know how to get around them or shoot them down?

Additionally, I presume at the start of each engagement the AWACS are closer to the Typhoons. I wonder if the F-35 could pick up on the AWACS signals bouncing off of the Typhoons and use them to know where the Typhoons are :devil:


If you're asking "would the F-35 detect the trap?" The answer is a resounding yes.

A quick aside:

These little scenarios always make the fox a shotgun equipped hunter themselves.

They always take loads of enemy assets to find a single F-35, once the F-35 is found the scenarios automatically equate that to killed-- yet In this case the Typhoons and AWACS are amazingly undetected! Even though they are detectable the moment they take off!! And if seen=killed, how do they live to spring their "trap" on the LO asset?

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les_paul59

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 17:27

The problem with that scenario is how does the awacs know what 20-30 degrees off center of the f-35 is, if no one can detect the f-35 to begin with. It's not great logic, and the f-35 will easily see the radio station size emissions coming from the awacs and adjust it's flight path to stay undetected or simply shoot the awacs down, I can't imagine that triangulating the position of an awacs with a four-ship of f-35's will be that hard.
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eloise

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Unread post09 Oct 2016, 18:25

botsing wrote:I think this has to do with two spikes in the radar deflection of the F-35 around the 30 degree angle from the front:

Image

If those spikes are real then you have the biggest chance of detecting an F-35 that is moving towards your position at that angle

Small note : those are spikes for 10 Ghz , AWACS radar work at lower frequency around 4-0.5 Ghz so the reflection lobes will be wider
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Unread post10 Oct 2016, 09:18

eloise wrote:
botsing wrote:I think this has to do with two spikes in the radar deflection of the F-35 around the 30 degree angle from the front:

Image

If those spikes are real then you have the biggest chance of detecting an F-35 that is moving towards your position at that angle

Small note : those are spikes for 10 Ghz , AWACS radar work at lower frequency around 4-0.5 Ghz so the reflection lobes will be wider
Image


Yes, the return lobes will be wider with lower frequency, but the radar would still need to be within the same narrow azimuth range in relation to F-35 to be able to exploit the spike in any way. The radar transmit beam has to hit the F-35 in the right angle and the be reflected back to same radar as all these radars are monostatic. Bistatic radars could theoretically use the phenomena but would require that both the transmitting and receiving radar be at exactly right directions. That'd be so difficult to achieve that it would be pretty much impossible in real life.
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Unread post10 Oct 2016, 23:10

A magic bullet is not a solution.
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 06:32

Austrians are disappointed with their TYPHOID deal: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-austr ... SKBN15V118
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Unread post05 Mar 2017, 16:27

So, I was looking at some F-35 airshow videos, and noticing just how far back the F-35's wing is on the aircraft. Curious, I checked the top-down images available on Wikipedia, and it really looks like the main wing of the F-35 is actually further back on it's fuselage than the main wings of the Eurocanards.

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