F-35 got 0 losses in dogfights against F-15E Red Air

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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photobase

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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 18:37

Here's an image from USAF official website:

160621-F-EA289-002_small.jpg


http://www.tyndall.af.mil/News/tabid/66 ... ng-ii.aspx

F-35 got "0 losses in dogfights against F-15E Red Air ", anyone have any details on that?
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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 20:41

iam curious too
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pron

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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 20:57

It's an article about it here, but don't explain a lot.
http://defense-update.com/20160622_f35_ioc.html

- “The F-35 recently deployed from Hill to Mountain Home where crews, maintenance, and support personnel conducted a number of missions.” Chase said, “During that deployment, crews attained a 100 percent sortie generation rate with 88 of 88 planned sorties and a 94 percent hit rate with 15 of 16 bombs on target. These numbers provide a positive indication of where we are when it comes to stability and component performance.” Through these flights the F-35s were challenged by F-15E aggressors, but the F-35s managed to complete all their missions with zero losses. The missions included Offensive Counter-Air (OCA), Air Interdiction (AI), Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD), Defensive Counter-Air (DCA) and Close Air Support (CAS).
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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 21:58

According to the news, it doesn't sound that F-35 actually goes "dogfight" against F-15E, but F-15E is on the defensive side trying to find and shoot down F-35 who is play a strike role. Clearly the F-15E can not find F-35 but F-35 probably did not engage with them.
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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 22:20

bayernfan wrote:According to the news, it doesn't sound that F-35 actually goes "dogfight" against F-15E, but F-15E is on the defensive side trying to find and shoot down F-35 who is play a strike role. Clearly the F-15E can not find F-35 but F-35 probably did not engage with them.

OCA/DCA involves direct combat, not avoiding the aggressors (F-15E and F-16)
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 22:53

wrightwing wrote:
bayernfan wrote:According to the news, it doesn't sound that F-35 actually goes "dogfight" against F-15E, but F-15E is on the defensive side trying to find and shoot down F-35 who is play a strike role. Clearly the F-15E can not find F-35 but F-35 probably did not engage with them.

OCA/DCA involves direct combat, not avoiding the aggressors (F-15E and F-16)

So avoiding detection by the F-15Es APG-82(v)1 AESA while "shooting" them down.
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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 23:02

pron wrote:It's an article about it here, but don't explain a lot.
http://defense-update.com/20160622_f35_ioc.html

- “The F-35 recently deployed from Hill to Mountain Home where crews, maintenance, and support personnel conducted a number of missions.” Chase said, “During that deployment, crews attained a 100 percent sortie generation rate with 88 of 88 planned sorties and a 94 percent hit rate with 15 of 16 bombs on target. These numbers provide a positive indication of where we are when it comes to stability and component performance.” Through these flights the F-35s were challenged by F-15E aggressors, but the F-35s managed to complete all their missions with zero losses. The missions included Offensive Counter-Air (OCA), Air Interdiction (AI), Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD), Defensive Counter-Air (DCA) and Close Air Support (CAS).


Initially I saw the report from other news site which did not mention DCA and OCA, just CAS, AI and S/DEAD.

It is quite clear now that F-35 is superior to F-15E even with IOC capability. Not surprising but good to show why we need 5th Gen fighters. Can't wait for F-35 to participate in Red Flag.
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Unread post23 Jun 2016, 23:58

Question: what is the significance of it being F-15E aggressors?
How much less capable at anti-air is the F-15E than the F-15C?
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 00:47

count_to_10 wrote:Question: what is the significance of it being F-15E aggressors?
How much less capable at anti-air is the F-15E than the F-15C?

BVR? Not much.
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 01:07

count_to_10 wrote:Question: what is the significance of it being F-15E aggressors?
How much less capable at anti-air is the F-15E than the F-15C?


Revenge.

Overall, the most noticeable characteristic of the F-35A in a visual engagement was its lack of energy maneuverability. The test pilot had 2,000 hours of flight time in the F-15E, experience in the F-16 Blks 30/40/42/50, exposure to flying the F-18F in high AoA, and has fought dissimilar BFM engagements with each in addition to F-15C. The EM of the F-35A is substantially inferior to the F-15E with PW-220s due to a smaller wing, similar weight, and ~15,000lbs less in afterburner thrust.
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 01:15

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"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 02:43

cantaz wrote:
count_to_10 wrote:Question: what is the significance of it being F-15E aggressors?
How much less capable at anti-air is the F-15E than the F-15C?


Revenge.

Overall, the most noticeable characteristic of the F-35A in a visual engagement was its lack of energy maneuverability. The test pilot had 2,000 hours of flight time in the F-15E, experience in the F-16 Blks 30/40/42/50, exposure to flying the F-18F in high AoA, and has fought dissimilar BFM engagements with each in addition to F-15C. The EM of the F-35A is substantially inferior to the F-15E with PW-220s due to a smaller wing, similar weight, and ~15,000lbs less in afterburner thrust.


Source? (Has the distinct whiff of bull$hit if only because a pair of -220s only have 4,000 - 6000lb thrust advantage over the F135- if that. )
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 02:58

If I remember correctly Sferrin, that quote about the F35 being inferior to the F15E was likely from a bullcr*p David Axe/WIB article.

Funny how the results are different in real life....those F15E aggressor/red air pilots must be pretty frustrated :mrgreen: . Loving the pew pew pew in the USAF graphic :mrgreen:

Can't wait to see what the USMC F35Bs can do in Red Flag this year. The USAF F35 results bodes well.
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 03:09

Quote from:
F-35A High Angle of Attack Operational Maneuvers
14 January 2015 LM Test Pilot

"...Overall, the most noticeable characteristic of the F-35A in a visual engagement was its lack of energy maneuverability. The test pilot had 2,000 hours of flight time in the F-15E, experience in the F-16 Blks 30/40/42/50, exposure to flying the F-18F in high AoA, and has fought dissimilar BFM engagements with each in addition to F-15C. The EM of the F-35A is substantially inferior to the F-15E with PW-220s due to a smaller wing, similar weight, and ~15,000lbs less in afterburner thrust...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... euvers.pdf (0.3Mb)
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Unread post24 Jun 2016, 03:21

The 366th FW F-15Es have both -220s and -229s, depending on the squadron.
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