F-35A vs B vs C

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post24 Oct 2015, 03:57

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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charlielima223

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Unread post24 Oct 2015, 08:28

zero-one wrote:
I know it's like beating a dead horse, but its quite sad that the statement above is in sharp contrast to what Gen. Carlisle has said about the F-35.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/mili ... /72403642/
Military leaders have repeatedly responded that the aircraft is built for long-range engagements, and is never meant to get near enemies.


neither was the F-4 and look at it.

Image

Even though this is a War is Boring piece, luckily it is NOT a David Axe piece. Unfortunately it quotes somebody I am sure we all collectively (here at F-16.net) despise...

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/is-the ... .qbmx5bilu
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count_to_10

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Unread post24 Oct 2015, 13:41

charlielima223 wrote:neither was the F-4 and look at it.

Image

Even though this is a War is Boring piece, luckily it is NOT a David Axe piece. Unfortunately it quotes somebody I am sure we all collectively (here at F-16.net) despise...

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/is-the ... .qbmx5bilu

"World's largest distributor of Mig parts."
8)
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
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zero-one

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 08:32

https://www.defensenews.com/video/2018/ ... -is-built/

Jump to 3:52 of the video.
It looks like Billie Flynn's favorite variant is the Sea.

Billie Flynn wrote:So the C model takes off like an escalator

Uhmmm I'm not sure thats a compliment, escalators aren't known to be fast climbers, nor do they climb steep, but I guess what he meant was that it rises effortlessly....maybe

Billie Flynn wrote:When it comes in to land its like a Zeppelin, it barely moves

Makes sense

Billie Flynn wrote:When it turns, its like carving a snowboard in powdered snow in Colorado

What does that even mean Billy? Why would you carve your snowboard in the snow

Billie Flynn wrote:It is the wing and the airplane that this airframe was really meant to be

There you have it folks, Test pilot who flew all 3 variants says the C model is the best. And as the first official F-35A demo pilot, thats saying a lot.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 09:53

Oh the FLYNNamity - you musta missed this: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53048&p=404843&hilit=5OdiPeGz1HA#p404843

LM Test Pilot Billie Flynn 'F-35C Best Wing' Airframe of Variants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OdiPeGz1HA

A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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pmi

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 14:25

zero-one wrote:What does that even mean Billy? Why would you carve your snowboard in the snow.


You must be a side slipper brau.
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white_lightning35

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 17:18

Snowboarder carving:
https://www.snowboard-asylum.com/media/357763/carving.jpg

My respect for Mr. Flynn just went down if it turns out he is a snowbored chump instead of a skier, as a proper gentleman should be.
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zero-one

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 18:49

Well poor choice of figurative phrases aside its clear that he and other pilots who have flown all 3 say that the C model is really special and seems to be the favorite in performance terms.

This comes in somewhat of a difference with the common belief here that the C model will enjoy only marginal superiority in some parts of the envelope but the A will still be the best performing model in most respects.

Just my observation from the statements,
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marsavian

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 19:25

the C model is really special and seems to be the favorite in performance terms.


In turning under 8g but not accelerating. It's a trade-off. Maybe if you rewinged an A with a C wing and did something about the area rule at the same time you could perhaps get the best of both worlds with even more endurance but that's possibly in the future, a F-35D perhaps. In the meanwhile both A and C have performance attributes to admire with perhaps the B being the only real compromise in performance but then again you could base that anywhere in the world so it's all good in the end.
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juretrn

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 20:03

white_lightning35 wrote:snowbored chump instead of a skier, as a proper gentleman should be.

You, I like you.
Russia stronk
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geforcerfx

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 22:01

From what I gathered it seemed the C is easier on the pilot during manuvering compared to the A. The A is the speed demon but ask it to turn hard and your at a higher G and the plane is talking a lot at high G. From what it sounded like the C isn't like that, you just lose your great subsonic accel with the wing and the weight.
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zero-one

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Unread post05 Nov 2018, 07:48

marsavian wrote: Maybe if you rewinged an A with a C wing and did something about the area rule at the same time you could perhaps get the best of both worlds with even more endurance but that's possibly in the future


Or just give the C a more powerful motor. she's around 5,000 lbs heavier than the A model. With ADVENT said to have a 10% thrust increase. She should be able to accelerate and gain E almost as fast as the A can today.
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marsavian

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Unread post05 Nov 2018, 15:00

You can give A the same extra thrust so nothing relatively will have changed. You need to start from the A fuselage without the naval changes and put on a C wing again without the naval changes so weight can be reduced as much as possible while you still retain an internal gun. Probably a slightly longer narrower fuselage too to cut down drag maybe increasing top speed a little too. It's either a new model D or you just keep applying the same changes to all the models and let the customer decide what they prefer but no-one is going to pay the extra cost of a C just for the turning ability alone.
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zero-one

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Unread post05 Nov 2018, 16:57

Yeah, well thats unlikely.
The USAF and USMC seem to be perfectly happy with the Kinematic performance of their F-35s. They are already capable dogfighters even if they are expected to rarely perform that role at all. Upgrades will be focused on Stealth and Sensor capabilities, any improvements in kinematics will likely come from engine upgrades.

As it stands, the C model seems to have best kinematic performance in most cases. The A is probably better in acceleration, I used to think that it will also have better E-M characteristics, however I'm beginning to believe that the C is better.

As the engineers here have said before, turn performance is generally determined by 2 factors, Lift limit and Thrust limit, there are also other factors like drag etc. And in 2012, with the infamous reduced sustained G KPP proposal, the C model had the highest sustained G proposal at 5Gs while the A and B were at 4.6 and 4.5 Gs respectively.

All this coupled with the pilot statements that the C seems to be their favorite performer leads me to believe that the C is really the best performing F-35 variant. The only think lackluster about it is acceleration, and with more powerful engines, acceleration could be brought to near F-16 ballparks. I'd say as it stand the F-35C is the best dogfighting machine the US Navy has ever had.
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Unread post05 Nov 2018, 17:26

I would dare to take a guess by what I’ve read and seen, that any performances comparisons between the 35 and others is not highly regarded at this point. If there are any performance trade offs, if, then that trade off versus sensor suite capabilities and sensor fusion might be worth the sacrifice. The guys flying these birds seem to be completely happy with the product produced
Remember that allot of these folks are from other platforms so their comparisons matter. As one of my frst instructors at the 15 schoolhouse told me, it’s easy to talk about shooting down your opponent, it’s another thing to actually do it.....
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