F-35 vs Mig-31 + A-50

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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eloise

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 08:10

Like title : Just a hypothetical scenarios
What will happened if group of 10 F-35 engage a group of 10 Mig-31 supported by 2 A-50 ( or any AWACS) :D
assumed F-35 block 5 ( 6 internal Aim-120D) and Mig-31 can use R-37, RVV-BD
will the F-35 stealthy enough to get close and engaging Mig-31 without being detected, or will AWACS will detect F-35 soon enough, and give Mig-31 ability to bombarded f-35 from long range with their missiles
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wrightwing

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 13:17

eloise wrote:Like title : Just a hypothetical scenarios
What will happened if group of 10 F-35 engage a group of 10 Mig-31 supported by 2 A-50 ( or any AWACS) :D
assumed F-35 block 5 ( 6 internal Aim-120D) and Mig-31 can use R-37, RVV-BD
will the F-35 stealthy enough to get close and engaging Mig-31 without being detected, or will AWACS will detect F-35 soon enough, and give Mig-31 ability to bombarded f-35 from long range with their missiles

The F-35s would use their ESM, to stay out of radar range, pick off the A-50s, and position themselves advantageously against the Migs.
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 13:19

wrightwing wrote:
eloise wrote:Like title : Just a hypothetical scenarios
What will happened if group of 10 F-35 engage a group of 10 Mig-31 supported by 2 A-50 ( or any AWACS) :D
assumed F-35 block 5 ( 6 internal Aim-120D) and Mig-31 can use R-37, RVV-BD
will the F-35 stealthy enough to get close and engaging Mig-31 without being detected, or will AWACS will detect F-35 soon enough, and give Mig-31 ability to bombarded f-35 from long range with their missiles

The F-35s would use their ESM, to stay out of radar range, pick off the A-50s, and position themselves advantageously against the Migs.



At which point the Migs would hit the afterburners for home and it would be over. :lol:
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eloise

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 13:58

wrightwing wrote:The F-35s would use their ESM, to stay out of radar range, pick off the A-50s

here is what i was wondering about too, would A-50 massive L band radar able to detect F-35 before it can launched AIM-120D?


wrightwing wrote:, and position themselves advantageously against the Migs.

wouldn't it be really hard to get into advantage position again something cruise at mach 2.5, and 70K ft?, i mean with top speed of mach 1.6, these F-35 have no chance of overtake mig-31
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 14:01

eloise wrote:wouldn't it be really hard to get into advantage position again something cruise at mach 2.5, and 70K ft?,


Think about that for five seconds. Do you actually believe they're doing CAP at Mach 2.5 and 70k? They'd leave the AWACS in the dust in no time.
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eloise

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 14:13

sferrin wrote:
Think about that for five seconds. Do you actually believe they're doing CAP at Mach 2.5 and 70k? They'd leave the AWACS in the dust in no time.

how about this, they divided mig-31 into 3 group, and circulate battlefield in a big triangle with AWACS inside that?
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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 14:22

eloise wrote:
sferrin wrote:
Think about that for five seconds. Do you actually believe they're doing CAP at Mach 2.5 and 70k? They'd leave the AWACS in the dust in no time.

how about this, they divided mig-31 into 3 group, and circulate battlefield in a big triangle with AWACS inside that?


Is that how they do it in reality? (That would be "no".)
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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 14:50

Why these fiction set-up all the time eloise..

You do understand that they(VVS) wouldn't use such tactics in the first place.
Where there is A-50, there would be several other assets.
Flankers first and foremost. The Mig--31 would hang back until a given target(s) present themself.
Eighter from land or air support radar stations.
Then the Mig--31 would engage the blowers, do a projected intercept vector. Stay supersonic, even if they abort the attack.
Good luck with them F(at)-35 sneaking up on the Migs on Sub/tran-sonic speed, and lunch missiles at a very disadvantage position.

The take-away is:
-How long can Fatso stay on AB(mission range)
-Going supersonic will increase airframe temperatur, and put its magnifficent Cloaking Device at risk
-If one side can see the other AWACS, chances are the other side also see their AWACS.

Which is precisly the kind of situation the Migs can effectively be used.
Imo, small fighter sized targets are NOT what the Mig-31 should go after.
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 15:40

borg wrote:-If one side can see the other AWACS, chances are the other side also see their AWACS.


If the F-35 can see the A-50 that means the A-50 can see the E-3? Wut? That's not how radar works.
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borg

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 16:11

yes yes, and not only can the F-35 detect the A-50 at 500km and sneak up Close to AWACS undetected, but they can also do this at SR-71 speed, which makes no time for other side to react.

On top of this, the other side are completly retards, whom will fly Mig-31 on a completly random course, at random speed at random altitude, at a random mission(goal).

If only to present themself at easy pickings to any adversaries.. :roll:

Seriously, these X vs Y threads..
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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 16:50

A reality check:

The Mig-31 was a defensive PVO interceptor, which mission was intercepting cruise missiles and Strategic bombers.
This would imply they was directed from AWACS and LAND based radar & Control stationes in a defensive nature, IMO they would not fly outside their airspace border on some fancy exotic mission chaising enemy fighters.

Today, the Mig-31 is a VVS asset, which happen to Train and operate alongside other VVS units.
We can only speculate in which tactical situation the Mig-31 can be used in..

In a larger theater conflict, the Mig-31 would be fairly easy to detect, if they come relative Close enough, and the given altitude and KIAS is a dead give-away.

Be that as it may, we do not know exactly what kind of New missile it will service, and from any adversaries stand point, they would allways be an annoying player which can and will disrupt any well laid mission plan.

The Mig-31 could play as a decoy for other units. It can support other units, With a sudden approach it can disrupt any adverssary mission, making them abort it. It can be used in an more offensive role if the situation present itself. AWACS and Tankers are high value assets.
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 17:45

borg wrote:yes yes, and not only can the F-35 detect the A-50 at 500km and sneak up Close to AWACS undetected, but they can also do this at SR-71 speed, which makes no time for other side to react.

On top of this, the other side are completly retards, whom will fly Mig-31 on a completly random course, at random speed at random altitude, at a random mission(goal).

If only to present themself at easy pickings to any adversaries.. :roll:

Seriously, these X vs Y threads..


Given that you fuel most of them, if you don't like they way they play out, maybe you should stop. :lol:
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borg

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Unread post05 Aug 2015, 18:38

Point taken
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 00:48

eloise wrote: here is what i was wondering about too, would A-50 massive L band radar able to detect F-35 before it can launched AIM-120D?


Their ESM would detect the emissions long before the A-50 could detect the F-35.


wouldn't it be really hard to get into advantage position again something cruise at mach 2.5, and 70K ft?, i mean with top speed of mach 1.6, these F-35 have no chance of overtake mig-31

The assumption here is that the F-35s would be behind the Migs, which wasn't obvious from your scenario. The Migs would be closing with the F-35s, the way you framed the question. Now if the Migs decided to turn and run, the F-35s would be at a disadvantage, if outside the NEZ of the -120D.
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 02:24

wrightwing wrote:Now if the Migs decided to turn and run, the F-35s would be at a disadvantage, if outside the NEZ of the -120D.


The Migs would have to know that the F-35s were there to know TO run.
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