Operational Performace Comparison: Viper, Beagle, and Stubby

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post26 Dec 2018, 15:54

Of course.

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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post02 Jan 2019, 17:08

So I won't be able to have the complete F-15SA done. My time was torn too many other directions. I do hope to at least have the CAP mission done this week, after which I will PDF it, post it, and continue to finish the F-15SA.
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garrya

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Unread post03 Jan 2019, 10:54

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:So I won't be able to have the complete F-15SA done. My time was torn too many other directions. I do hope to at least have the CAP mission done this week, after which I will PDF it, post it, and continue to finish the F-15SA.

:D at least you got the Su-35 done, hard to deny that aerodynamicwise it is a beast
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Unread post03 Jan 2019, 15:38

garrya wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:So I won't be able to have the complete F-15SA done. My time was torn too many other directions. I do hope to at least have the CAP mission done this week, after which I will PDF it, post it, and continue to finish the F-15SA.

:D at least you got the Su-35 done, hard to deny that aerodynamicwise it is a beast


I agree, but am sooooo curious to see how the F-15SA (particularly with the new motors) stacks up. The F-15SA will have the edge in BVR, and certainly in weapons - but WVR I'd like to know just how high the bar is to out-rate the SU-35. And a bit off topic, but does anyone know what motors Boeing is proposing for the F-15X?

I realize the USAF won't buy it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a foreign customer not eligible for the F-35 orders the X. In which case, it might sweeten the pot for the USAF? That'd be a real wildcard for what's possible, or are most F-15X capabilities already baked into the F-15SA??
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Unread post03 Jan 2019, 16:27

Just at a glance, when comparing the F-15SA and the Su-35S in loaded conditions, the F-15SA is heavier, has a smaller wing with a lower CLmax, has less thrust, and a lower fuel fraction.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jan 2019, 16:54

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Just at a glance, when comparing the F-15SA and the Su-35S in loaded conditions, the F-15SA is heavier, has a smaller wing with a lower CLmax, has less thrust, and a lower fuel fraction.


But... but... Boing, yo! :drool:

:bang:

:devil:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post03 Jan 2019, 17:54

Oh, it also has a higher RCS. It still gets first look/first shot by a significant margin. WVR JHMCS/AIM-9X beats Soviet era helmet cue and R-73 by 30 degrees in off boresight ability.
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doge

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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 12:23

I tried focusing on "left", not right (max speed) and up (max alt) of the F-35s envelope.
So, I compared.

In this comparison, can say that something of F-35A is "better or superior"? (I don’t have confidence in myself...)

Flight envelope(left).jpg

The flight envelope I used. (I focused mainly on Alt 30K to 40K ft and speed Mach 0.3 to 0.4.)
F-15C (clean) F100-PW-100
F-15E (clean) F100-PW-229
F/A-18C
F/A-18E
F-35A
Flight envelope(5).jpg
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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 20:53

If i recall correctly, your chart indicate F-35 has slower stall speed, generally mean it can pull same G at lower speed which lead to higher ITR.
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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 20:59

That's what it looks like. The F-35C looks even better.
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 14:26

Thank you very much! :D
garrya wrote:If i recall correctly, your chart indicate F-35 has slower stall speed, generally mean it can pull same G at lower speed which lead to higher ITR.

!...Stall capability! There have been many articles pilot praised F-35's Stall or Slow speed handling so far.
This time, It's very interesting that the superior capability was able to be seen as a Figure... 8)
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:That's what it looks like. The F-35C looks even better.

!...It certainly looks like that...! C type looks like even better in the vicinity of Mach 0.3. It's interesting...! 8)
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 01:49

One thing I need to point out is that the test chart does not mean the maximum capability of the jet. For instance, technically F-35A should be superior than F-35B in every aspect (because it is lighter), however in the chart F-35B has been tested to fly as slow as Mach 0.29 at 36000ft while F-35A acheived Mach 0.3. It only means that F-35A could fly at speed even lowers than Mach 0.29 at 36000ft, and it has not demonstrated its maximum capability in tests.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 01:51

If my memory serves, the lower bound of Mig-29A at 36000ft is Mach 0.4
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 06:22

gta4 wrote:One thing I need to point out is that the test chart does not mean the maximum capability of the jet. For instance, technically F-35A should be superior than F-35B in every aspect (because it is lighter), however in the chart F-35B has been tested to fly as slow as Mach 0.29 at 36000ft while F-35A acheived Mach 0.3. It only means that F-35A could fly at speed even lowers than Mach 0.29 at 36000ft, and it has not demonstrated its maximum capability in tests.

The F-35A is only lighter when empty. The F-35B is lighter when fully fueled and fully loaded internally.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 06:34

It feels SOOOOO good to do this. I was having a hell of a time with the F-15 fuel burn modeling in different weights and loadouts. Then I was having a hell of a time finding a convenient way to do the CAP mission probability. It doesn't work to sum the odds that a given aircraft survives or dies, you have to take the odds that each shot even occurs. If the first shot has a 45% pK, then there is only a 55% chance the next shot even happens, and so forth. So, I'm a bit late, but here is a .PDF of what I have: The F-15SA through the CAP mission. I still need to do the Intercept, Deep Strike, and CAS missions. There is a lot of performance info here on how the F-15SA compares to my model of the Su-35S, as well as info about how I am modeling system performance. If anyone has concrete proof that I have a mistake in the systems, please share. If anyone who is a subject matter expert (looking at hornetfinn) thinks I should try a different approach to my systems and has one to offer, please share.

One last note, I am having some formatting issues with Word. Some tables are being split in two for seemingly no reason and the table of contents just looks ugly. I will try to fix this before the next release.

Enjoy
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