J-31 aims at F-35 market

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 30 Aug 2018, 01:40

Odds are the J-31 will become the backbone of the PLAAF and PLAN.....

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 07 Sep 2018, 05:52

China reportedly making modest progress in jet engine field.

https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... 20%251%24s

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 07 Sep 2018, 06:30

popcorn wrote:China reportedly making modest progress in jet engine field.

https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... 20%251%24s

That doesn't exactly insipre confidence in their engine technology. So they are at the same level Soviets were almost 40 years ago and USA was almost 50 years ago? It will take some time before WS-15 will become operational. J-31 still uses RD-93s and WS-13 is not much better. Decent engines, but nowhere near F-135 or F-119 class. Even EJ200, M88 and F414 are clearly more advanced engines.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 07 Sep 2018, 10:03

hornetfinn wrote:
popcorn wrote:China reportedly making modest progress in jet engine field.

https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... 20%251%24s

That doesn't exactly insipre confidence in their engine technology. So they are at the same level Soviets were almost 40 years ago and USA was almost 50 years ago? It will take some time before WS-15 will become operational. J-31 still uses RD-93s and WS-13 is not much better. Decent engines, but nowhere near F-135 or F-119 class. Even EJ200, M88 and F414 are clearly more advanced engines.

Agreed... that's why I called it 'modest'. :wink:

aasm · by **aasm** » 07 Sep 2018, 11:00

F-135 or F-119 class. Even EJ200, M88 and F414 are clearly more advanced engines.

thrust to weight values of F135? Sure it is higher than EJ200? (yeah i know it is only one aspect amongst many...)

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 07 Sep 2018, 12:39

aasm wrote:
F-135 or F-119 class. Even EJ200, M88 and F414 are clearly more advanced engines.

thrust to weight values of F135? Sure it is higher than EJ200? (yeah i know it is only one aspect amongst many...)

We don't know the F135 or even F119 weight really. Sure there have been some numbers in the web, but I've never seen any real source for them. If you have any real numbers, I'd like to know for sure.

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 07 Sep 2018, 14:13

hornetfinn wrote:
aasm wrote:thrust to weight values of F135? Sure it is higher than EJ200? (yeah i know it is only one aspect amongst many...)

We don't know the F135 or even F119 weight really. Sure there have been some numbers in the web, but I've never seen any real source for them. If you have any real numbers, I'd like to know for sure.

I also have yet to see official numbers about the F135 weight.

For what's worth wikipedia (or not, afterall it's wikipedia) claims that the F135, namely the conventional variant the F135-PW-100 has the following thrust-to-weight ratios:
- 7.47:1 (dry regime)
- 11.467:1 (afterburning regime)

While the EJ200 has the following thrust-to-weight ratios:
- 6.11:1 (dry regime)
- 9.17:1 (afterburning regime)

If these values are to be correct than the F-135 clearly has a higher thrust-to-weight ratio compared to the EJ200 which personally doesn't surprise me a bit.

Here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_F135
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurojet_EJ200

tphuang · by **tphuang** » 07 Sep 2018, 15:12

popcorn wrote:China reportedly making modest progress in jet engine field.

https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... 20%251%24s

here is a word of wisdom. Don't take anything out of SCMP seriously. It's pure trash.

In terms of WS-10 series, it's still full of problem. It's probably comparable to recent models of AL-31F in thrust performance, but with lower reliability due to the shorter time in service. They are working on improving WS-10 series reliability and WS-15 at the same time. Typical Chinese way of doing things. Remember just a few years ago, they were still producing the final batch of J-7s while also developing J-20 at the same time.

tphuang · by **tphuang** » 07 Sep 2018, 15:17

hornetfinn wrote:
popcorn wrote:China reportedly making modest progress in jet engine field.

https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... 20%251%24s

That doesn't exactly insipre confidence in their engine technology. So they are at the same level Soviets were almost 40 years ago and USA was almost 50 years ago? It will take some time before WS-15 will become operational. J-31 still uses RD-93s and WS-13 is not much better. Decent engines, but nowhere near F-135 or F-119 class. Even EJ200, M88 and F414 are clearly more advanced engines.

If China can have a reliable production of engine with comparable performance to F-414 right now, it would be jumping in joy.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 08 Jan 2019, 02:53

Coming Soon to China's Aircraft Carriers: The JC-31 Stealth Fighter?
07 Jan 2019 David Axe

"The People's Liberation Army Navy could buy "fourth-generation" FC-31 fighters from the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute to replace older J-15s, state-run Global Times reported. The Chinese navy reportedly is considering acquiring a new stealth fighter to replace existing carrier-launched warplanes that have proved unreliable and unsafe.

The People's Liberation Army Navy could buy "fourth-generation" FC-31 fighters from the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute to replace older J-15s, state-run Global Times reported. In Chinese military parlance, a "fourth-generation" plane is a stealthy plane with modern sensors and weapons. The rest of the world refers to such aircraft as "fifth-generation." [So suck on that youse capitalist LMworshipping 5genRunningDOGS!]

"Multiple changes and upgrades are being made to the FC-31 allowing it to be used on an aircraft carrier," Global Times reported an unnamed military source as saying....

...Global Times and other news outlets have cited , as evidence of Beijing's interest in buying FC-31s, various requests-for-proposals and tenders that the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute has published apparently in order to upgrade the FC-31 for carrier operations....

...There was speculation early on that the Shenyang intended for the FC-31 to have a naval role. The type features the heavy-duty landing gear and twin nosewheel that are standard on carrier aircraft that must endure high-impact landings....

Source: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... hter-40842

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 08 Jan 2019, 05:37

What have I been saying..........

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 08 Jan 2019, 05:47

QUOTE:

Shenyang independently developed the FC-31 in the hope of selling it to the Chinese military or foreign air arms. That has changed. "The FC-31 is no longer export-oriented, and is destined for domestic military service," Global Times claimed.

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 08 Jan 2019, 08:04

Problems though:

viewtopic.php?p=402408#p402408

... Full-fuel of 12,000 lb plus the full-weapon payload gives a weight of 67,000 lb, or 12,000 lb over [claimed] MTOW. In other words, you can have full-fuel, or you can have full-weapons--but you can not have both. So J-31, as it currently stands, would be unable to have full-fuel and to carry any external weapons, unless you first removed all of the internal weapons. So external pylons on a J-31 will not be seeing a whole lot of action. ...

No margin to add external fuel or weapons without much more capable engines, so sans significant engine advances, it reads more like a headline response to Japan.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 08 Jan 2019, 08:21

Problem hinted at in the AXE story so now 'looking forward' to catapult heavyweights with third Chinese carrier - maybe. I'm not allowed to excerpt an entire story - sometimes other bits are left out - always best to read same at the URL.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 08 Jan 2019, 08:49

Have doubts about all the numbers floating around for the Naval Variant. Yet, China will have to work it out. As the J-15 is not going to be adequate post 2030 if not before.... :shock: