Can the F-35 match the PAK-FA

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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tsl256

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Unread post12 Feb 2018, 06:26

Corsair1963 wrote:
vilters wrote:I still have troubles believing my eyes every time I see a PAK-FA picture.

No clue what they know (or don't) about stealth, but this is nothing like it.

Might as well hang a campfire in the sky and say "shoot".



The PAK-FA (Su-57) is really nothing more than a Semi-Stealthy Flanker. Honestly, I would be far more concern with the Chinese J-20 and/or J-31 Stealth Fighters.


^This
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Unread post12 Feb 2018, 07:21

Honestly, I wouldn't at all be surprised. If, the J-20 and J-31 where both stealthier than the Su-57. :shock:


Which, could spell doom for India. If, it sticks with the FGFA Deal with Russia.
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Unread post13 Feb 2018, 17:08

Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't at all be surprised. If, the J-20 and J-31 where both stealthier than the Su-57. :shock:


Which, could spell doom for India. If, it sticks with the FGFA Deal with Russia.


Let's say India comes to its senses and they pull out of the SU-57/FGFA project. Do the Russians go looking for another investment capital country, like say the UAE? Or do they have the resources and rubles to go it alone??
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Unread post13 Feb 2018, 19:11

mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't at all be surprised. If, the J-20 and J-31 where both stealthier than the Su-57. :shock:


Which, could spell doom for India. If, it sticks with the FGFA Deal with Russia.


Let's say India comes to its senses and they pull out of the SU-57/FGFA project. Do the Russians go looking for another investment capital country, like say the UAE? Or do they have the resources and rubles to go it alone??


Airframe is done what they now is developing are engines and weapons which they will use also for other fighters so they will continue to invest in Su-57 program even if India leave which isn't likely especially now with new engine IAF biggest complain was about old engine.

UAE Sukhoi fighter is possible after Su-57 development is done becuase it would need Su-57 tech.
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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 09:50

I guess this info can go in several places in this sub-forum - however I'll bang it in here - hang on to your hats rooskies. There has been a lot of talk about the dollar amounts of investment in 'new tech' for fighter aircraft - here is a clue.
Air Force Wants to Invest Heavily in Next-Gen Technologies
15 Feb 2018 Oriana Pawlyk

"...The service [USAF] asked for $504 million next year for its next-generation air dominance research, development, test and evaluation program, according to the document.

And that's not all: In its future years defense program [FYDP], showing the next five years of planned spending, the Air Force shows a planned investment of roughly $11 billion over the course of five years for RTD&E on next-gen air dominance.... [EGAD! NGAD]

..."Air combat is not all about fighter aircraft dogfighting anymore ... it's about bringing a network to bear, and attributes [penetrating counter air] needs in terms of range, persistence, survivability, lethality," Grynkewich said in July. Next-generation air dominance was once synonymous with penetrating counter air, or PCA. To many, the concept of an advanced, stealthy and hypersonic fighter aircraft came to mind. But the Air Force is keen on moving away from a "one-size-fits-all" idea and toward a family of systems approach....

...While munitions, lasers, sensors and speed are on the table, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson this week said the air superiority focus coincides with a renewed emphasis on electronic warfare, networked capabilities, and control of the electromagnetic spectrum...."

Source: https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/0 ... ogies.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 17:06

I still say an up-sized YF-23a is coming our way. Not sure if it'll win but it had the speed, the legs etc they're looking for. With a bigger airfame it'll also have the air to air loadout and sensors it needs to be a sensor/shooter platform.

I'm not convinced they're going to totally rule out dogfighting. The F-22 was a nod to that, and certain ROE's in future conflicts may dictate this capability be retained. I can't wait to see the prototypes, but an up-sized, up-engined YF-23a like bird is my bet.
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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 19:46

Don't they want it to be tail-less so it is as stealthy as B-21 in the lower radar frequencies ? A YF-23 could be the starting point but not the finishing point. FB-22 derivative is more likely than that especially as TVC will be useful without a tail although they will have to give it yaw authority too.

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 20:25

Yeah, perhaps tail less but I thought the YF-23a's Ruddervators accomplished something similar? I assumed those ruddervators were a big part of the reason it was stealthier than the YF-22a, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Whoever wins I hope it ISN'T Lockheed. God bless them for their work on the Raptor and of course they'll have a cash cow in the F-35 for the next 30-40 years. Boeing doesn't seem to have the steal expertise so I guess it'd be up to Northrop, and we know for sure they do tailess quite well.

My concern is that if Lockheed wins, we may wind up with them as sole defense contractor (for most big ticket items). Not having comptetion is no good, it's not the American way..
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 21:45

F/A-XX replacement for the F-18 is literally made for Boeing.

If they lose that they are fucked.
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 21:50

Many reasons why the YF-23 was so stealthy ...

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... t/f-23.htm

However the ruddervators still will fall foul of Rayleigh scattering in say the VHF band because their size will be less than the radar wavelength.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/the-f-3 ... hf-threat/

PCA will most likely be a tail-less cranked delta wing with subtle TVC so it has the same broadband stealth as B-21 so they can both slip in and out without being detected by any radar.

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rheonomic

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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 03:01

PCA / F/A-XX / NGAD / whatever will likely be tailless.

Boeing will most likely win F/A-XX / Navy NGAD, since the Navy likes Boeing (i.e. McAir).

PCA is anyone's guess at this point.

mixelflick wrote:My concern is that if Lockheed wins, we may wind up with them as sole defense contractor (for most big ticket items). Not having comptetion is no good, it's not the American way..
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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 03:18

mixelflick wrote:Yeah, perhaps tail less but I thought the YF-23a's Ruddervators accomplished something similar? I assumed those ruddervators were a big part of the reason it was stealthier than the YF-22a, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Whoever wins I hope it ISN'T Lockheed. God bless them for their work on the Raptor and of course they'll have a cash cow in the F-35 for the next 30-40 years. Boeing doesn't seem to have the steal expertise so I guess it'd be up to Northrop, and we know for sure they do tailess quite well.

My concern is that if Lockheed wins, we may wind up with them as sole defense contractor (for most big ticket items). Not having comptetion is no good, it's not the American way..

One idea that LM is likely to push is that the F-35 can be upgraded enough that no new platform is needed.
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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 04:19

rheonomic wrote:PCA / F/A-XX / NGAD / whatever will likely be tailless.

Boeing will most likely win F/A-XX / Navy NGAD, since the Navy likes Boeing (i.e. McAir).

PCA is anyone's guess at this point.



Perhaps a blend of the X-36 and Boeing's Bird of Prey with some kind of advanced aerolastic control surfaces. Who knows what they got cooking up in some lab or modeling on some computer in an undisclosed location at some unknown base/facility away from prying and curious eyes.
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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 04:46

charlielima223 wrote:
Perhaps a blend of the X-36 and Boeing's Bird of Prey with some kind of advanced aerolastic control surfaces. Who knows what they got cooking up in some lab or modeling on some computer in an undisclosed location at some unknown base/facility away from prying and curious eyes.


We have a decent idea of Boeing's thoughts so far.
boing FA-xx.jpg

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/ar ... spread.pdf

Also
http://aviationweek.com/blog/meet-boein ... er-concept

They seem to favor tailless optionally manned delta, with thrust vectoring.

But than there is this as well....
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rheonomic

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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 04:51

geforcerfx wrote:But than there is this as well....
Image


This looks a lot like a refined version of their TAFA.

count_to_10 wrote:One idea that LM is likely to push is that the F-35 can be upgraded enough that no new platform is needed.


NGAD/PCA is almost certainly not going to be an F-35 derivative.
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