F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jun 2020, 12:35

Reading all this, reminds me how far things have changed from the days when pressing and holding down the transmit button of a handset of a signal set constituted "jamming".
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spazsinbad

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Unread post12 Jun 2020, 13:28

ThisALL reminds me of all this....

Bob Marley Jammin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA

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XanderCrews

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 20:22

loke wrote:The discussion about need for Growler support for 4-4.5 gen fighters is an interesting one.

AFAIK Israel does not have access to Growlers. Still they very successfully conducted many raids above Syria before they got the F-35. How did they do that without Growlers? AFAIK only one F-16 was hit, and in that instance they concluded this could have been avoided if the F-16 pilot had not done some errors during that mission.



Its because ever since the israeli AF got curb stomped in 1973 they've gone out of their way to be on the cutting edge of EW.

Growler and the subsequent pods first being sold to the RAAF was a very ground breaking occurrence. (Not that Israel probably couldn't get them as well if the desire was there)
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energo

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 23:46

spazsinbad wrote:ThisALL reminds me of all this....

Bob Marley Jammin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA


Or.. :mrgreen:

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/FcArnepkhv0?t=10[/YouTube]

EDIT: Seems I can't get the Youtube link to to work, so url to the classic Space Balls scene here:

https://youtu.be/FcArnepkhv0?t=10
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spazsinbad

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Unread post13 Jun 2020, 23:56

:applause: :mrgreen: VG+* VeryGoodWithAstar. The URL must be so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcArnepkhv0?t=10 :roll:

Then uboob URL: [youtube]FcArnepkhv0[/youtube (the last ] closing bracket missing so one can see the string URL thusly:

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Last edited by spazsinbad on 14 Jun 2020, 02:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post14 Jun 2020, 00:23

hornetfinn wrote:
notam123 wrote:Just to add alittle info (it is not a secret), Gripen E aswell as RAfale F4 will be able to use "cooperative jamming" (don't ask me exact details, those are classified therefore not accessible to me)




Or it's nothing more than an on-board jammer working in conjunction with a towed or other advanced expendable decoy
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Unread post14 Jun 2020, 18:05

ricnunes wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Moreover (and this is more of a question) when a Growler is jamming an enemy radar source, it usually does it in a directional way, doesn't it?2
And if this is the case then directional jamming means that the chances of jamming an allied asset is very slim/minimal.


We're getting into things we shouldn't talk about in a public forum.


I don't think that we're talking about something whose very basic functionality is 'top secret'.

You can see such jamming basic or '101' in Smithsonian's Air Warrior series, more precisely in the Growler episode which you can partially watch below:

Namely by watching from minute 0:35 to minute 1:30, it seems that jamming is directional (or at least it can be directional).

This episode(083) of The Fighter Pilot Podcast, talks about EW in general and more specifically about the Growler with a Prowler/Growler-pilot: https://youtu.be/63TZZpXw54w
"On this episode, U.S. Navy Captain Dave “Mini Me” Kurtz joins us to talk tactical electronic attack based on his career flying the EA-6B Prowler and EA-18G Growler. We discuss what EA is, how it works to disrupt the enemy’s kill chain, and some planning considerations. Mini Me even answers a few listener questions on the subject."

(Trying a little bit of On Topic: I think the F-35 episode(078) was interesting too, if you haven't listened to it. There is even an episode with Gripen, but I don't remember the number and it wasn't as interesting as the one with the F-35.)
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ricnunes

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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 00:19

hornetfinn wrote:From what I've read, it seems that AN/ALQ-99 can do directional jamming using the HBT (High Band Transmitter). When using the LBT (Low Band Transmitter), it can do omnidirectioal, bidirectional or sector jamming.


Thanks for the reply and heads up hornetfinn :thumb:

That pretty much confirms that the Growler shouldn't affect other fighter aircraft like the Rafale since the HBT due to directional jamming should avoid messing up with the fighter aircraft (again like the Rafale) high frequency/band sensors like the Radar and I imagine that sector jamming thru the LBT should also minimize or avoid any negative effective on the Rafale's (or other fighter aircraft) low frequency/band transmitters, no?
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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ricnunes

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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 00:20

spad_s.xiii wrote:This episode(083) of The Fighter Pilot Podcast, talks about EW in general and more specifically about the Growler with a Prowler/Growler-pilot: https://youtu.be/63TZZpXw54w
"On this episode, U.S. Navy Captain Dave “Mini Me” Kurtz joins us to talk tactical electronic attack based on his career flying the EA-6B Prowler and EA-18G Growler. We discuss what EA is, how it works to disrupt the enemy’s kill chain, and some planning considerations. Mini Me even answers a few listener questions on the subject."

(Trying a little bit of On Topic: I think the F-35 episode(078) was interesting too, if you haven't listened to it. There is even an episode with Gripen, but I don't remember the number and it wasn't as interesting as the one with the F-35.)


Thanks spad! I'll certainly watch it :thumb:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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ricnunes

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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 00:37

loke wrote:The discussion about need for Growler support for 4-4.5 gen fighters is an interesting one.

AFAIK Israel does not have access to Growlers. Still they very successfully conducted many raids above Syria before they got the F-35. How did they do that without Growlers?


In complement to what hornetfinn replied earlier to you, I would say that the Israelis did (and do) that thru SIGINT/ELINT which allows them (Israelis) to pinpoint the position of enemy radars/air defenses.
The Israelis have lots of platforms to achieve this such as their F-16I (Sufa), UAVs and like previously mentioned even ground based SIGINT/ELINT equipment, etc...
After pinpointing the position of enemy radars/air defenses the Israelis can opt to destroy those enemy assets with a myriad of munitions such for instance as cruise missiles (like the Delilah for example) or other longer range weapons (such as the SPICE or SDB for example) or alternatively to bypass/avoid them.

The F-35 allows a clear continuation of the same 'strategy' above into the future.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 02:26

marauder2048 wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:
notam123 wrote:Just to add alittle info (it is not a secret), Gripen E aswell as RAfale F4 will be able to use "cooperative jamming" (don't ask me exact details, those are classified therefore not accessible to me)




Or it's nothing more than an on-board jammer working in conjunction with a towed or other advanced expendable decoy



You don't think they would do that would you? take a relatively simple thing and inflate it as some kind of revolution do you?
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weasel1962

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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 11:33

On Israelis, should read about operation mole cricket 19. To date, its still the benchmark for SEAD suppression.

P.s. to add, today Israel also has the G550 Elint which Australia is getting.
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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 21:09

[quote="spazsinbad"]:applause: :mrgreen: VG+* VeryGoodWithAstar. The URL must be so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcArnepkhv0?t=10 :roll:

Then uboob URL: [youtube]FcArnepkhv0[/youtube (the last ] closing bracket missing so one can see the string URL thusly:
/quote]

Thank's! :beer:
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Unread post15 Jun 2020, 21:11

energo wrote:
spazsinbad wrote::applause: :mrgreen: VG+* VeryGoodWithAstar. The URL must be so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcArnepkhv0?t=10 :roll:

Then uboob URL: [youtube]FcArnepkhv0[/youtube (the last ] closing bracket missing so one can see the string URL thusly:


Thank's! :beer:
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Unread post16 Jun 2020, 21:03

weasel1962 wrote:On Israelis, should read about operation mole cricket 19. To date, its still the benchmark for SEAD suppression.


It is assuming your enemy:

a. Didn't bother to deploy the number of early warning radars required by the TOE
b. Doesn't change battery positions for a year enabling you to rehearse extensively against an simulated threat that
exactly matches when you encounter in the field
c. Is generally careless
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