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Re: F-35A versus Saab Grippen NG

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2019, 20:45
by XanderCrews
mikc wrote:
It's so nice I can get you ranting :twisted:



mikc wrote:
Now your mixing aircraft again, Gripen E is not Gripen C. It is a completely new aircraft with the same basic flight characteristics but that’s it, so why do you keep posting Gripen C stuff in this thread.

Anyway, just to get you up to speed on Auto GCAS “The Joint AFTI Sweden GCAS program was a cooperative effort between the Air Force Research Labs, NASA, and the Swedish government from 1997-1998. The Joint AFTI program had two phases. The first phase, January to October 1997, focused on nuisance criteria testing, and the second phase, July to November 1998, expanded to the full envelope Auto GCAS testing.”

Auto GCAS test.png

i.e after Gripen C IOC so I think the comparison is flawed from the beginning.

Auto GCAS was ordered by FMV as part of MS20 in 2013 and was fielded 2016 on Gripen C as part of MS20.

It’s funny you picked IOC as comparison date, for Gripen E it would be a negative number (maybe -1200 more or less) because it’s part of MS21 that flew first on the 39-9, 26 November 2018 (no I don’t think they tested it during that first flight) but it will be part of Gripen E when delivered and is part of the testprogram for now.

Gripen E AGCAS.png

GRIPEN AGCAS.png

First delivery of Gripen E from SAAB to FMV is 2019, first handover from FMV to SwAF is 2021 and planned IOC is 2023, IOC-date is up to the SwAF with MS21.


Image


You get it backwards and start about the Gripen C. But but... Gripen C..Gripen C. Why is that?

Gripen E has a completely new airframe with more carbon fiber with more room for fuel, it's longer, wider, heavier, different engine, new FCS, new Mission system, new EW, AESA-radar, new countermeasures and dispenser systems, new landing gear in new position, improved data link with video, sensor fusion, new decision support system, WAD, IRST, MAVS and additional hard points, new pylons and ejectors, stealthier and faster.

In this interview Marcus Wandt (SAAB test pilot) confirmed this. Reporter asks in Swedish "Gripen E that you stand infront of looks a lot like the present Gripen. What is the difference compared to earlier aircrafts?"

He responds "Yes, it's very similar to earlier Gripen, but I would like to reverse the question, and tell you what are the same? The aerodynamic profile is the same, it's a delta wing with canards, to deal with the negative stability. General flight control principle is the same but it's a new engine, new fuel system, additional pylons, different avionics, different cockpit, different displays, all new sensors, basically everything else is new.."


Image

I thought we covered this? your assertion is untenable. Saab themselves say youre wrong. The only thing left for you to do is either contradict them or concede. I'm happy to post this as many times as is necessary while you fail to make your argument and flail away though. Even the name would certainly be a dead giveaway, but you go right ahead, I love seeing you rant

Gripen:

A
B
C
D
E <----- you are here. (Each letter is a variant. This is the 5th)


Haven't seen any updates about it and LM can't take a dump without bragging about it so we would have heard about it by now.


You'd think LM just produced the 3rd prototype of a variant of the old Gripen, amiright?

And no, I can tell you first hand a lot of things don't get talked about. I've seen things that have never shown up and other things that didn't make it to the public until years later.

mikc wrote:Clean sheet? Do you always have to start from scratch? No wonder you spend so much developing new aircrafts.



You just contradicted yourself.

gideonic wrote:IMO claiming that F-22 and F-35 are pretty much the same as they "have the same aerodynamic profile" crossed the line for me (not to mention YF-22, a prototype built on existing components that shares ridiculously little with the final product)



Geewhiz he seemed so credible before too.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 07:54
by loke
Saab performed the first flight tests of the Gripen and with two aircraft flying in formation. The two prototypes 39-9 and 39-10 conducted a flight set for testing of sensors and tactical systems.

Saab has currently three Gripen and testing campaign, and the 39-10 is the first with the default structure, while the rest are copies intended for specific tests. The 39-9 is returning to campaign tactical systems, while the General control of flight 39-8.


Machine translated from: https://aeromagazine.uol.com.br/artigo/ ... _4437.html

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 15 Jul 2019, 08:15
by loke
The best analogy of Gripen C/D -> Gripen E/F is IMHO F-18 C/D -> F-18 E/F. This is a better analogy than the F-16 block 50 -> block 70 since the E is physically different from C with a longer fuselage, significantly more internal fuel, more pylons, etc.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Grippen NG

Unread postPosted: 17 Jul 2019, 06:16
by XanderCrews
mikc wrote: LM can't take a dump without bragging about it so we would have heard about it by now.


loke wrote:
Saab performed the first flight tests of the Gripen and with two aircraft flying in formation. The two prototypes 39-9 and 39-10 conducted a flight set for testing of sensors and tactical systems.

.


Machine translated from: https://aeromagazine.uol.com.br/artigo/ ... _4437.html


sorry I just had to mention it :mrgreen: Congrats on a formation flight-- any word on when the pilots took dumps or is that only in swedish? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 06:53
by loke

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 09:12
by ricnunes
loke wrote:Gripen E expose their bellies:

https://twitter.com/327087A/status/1149408509957672960


WoW, I'm impressed - the Gripen E can fly without pylons! :mrgreen:

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 20:01
by charlielima223
loke wrote:Gripen E expose their bellies:

https://twitter.com/327087A/status/1149408509957672960


Those panels do not look so LO compliant to me.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 23:30
by vilters
At least they don't overlap like the Russian panels do. LOL.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 22 Jul 2019, 19:38
by XanderCrews
loke wrote:Gripen E expose their bellies:

https://twitter.com/327087A/status/1149408509957672960


After years of hearing how the F-35 was "fat" and "not area ruled", its great to see the Gripen E has expanded at the middle looking fatter after it gained 1200 kilos.

Image

ricnunes wrote:
loke wrote:Gripen E expose their bellies:

https://twitter.com/327087A/status/1149408509957672960


WoW, I'm impressed - the Gripen E can fly without pylons! :mrgreen:


please don't laugh, i had to wait over 10 years for it to fly at all.

:oops: :oops: :oops:

LM can't take a dump without bragging about it


loke wrote:Gripen E expose their bellies:

https://twitter.com/327087A/status/1149408509957672960



Image

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2019, 22:49
by XanderCrews
Image

First Brazil flight.

Where are the fanboyz? why am I posting this?

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 02:06
by white_lightning35
XanderCrews wrote:Image

First Brazil flight.

Where are the fanboyz? why am I posting this?


I always enjoy seeing pictures of how the gripen's engine sticks out like a sore thumb, yet the fanboys will claim it has a tiny infrared signature.

OTOH, without their rantings we wouldn't get to make fun of them so much.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 13:53
by mixelflick
Looking positively 90's ish... Visually, looks stuck in that decade.

I understand under the hood it has some impressive avionics, but with no clear cut advantage in stealth, maneuverability, weapons (once Meteor's "newness" rubs off), it's going to find it tough going in the world of 21st century air combat.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 01:45
by jetblast16

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 03:27
by charlielima223
mixelflick wrote:Looking positively 90's ish... Visually, looks stuck in that decade.

I understand under the hood it has some impressive avionics, but with no clear cut advantage in stealth, maneuverability, weapons (once Meteor's "newness" rubs off), it's going to find it tough going in the world of 21st century air combat.


I think one thing people forget to look at is who is being marketed for this aircraft and who will be flying it. Brazil isnt exactly a major player on the international stage in terms of politics and military. Why would they need an F-35? (Though I'm sure if given the chance they would jump on board) Not every airforce in the world requires a 5th gen multirole aircraft. Brazil and South Africa do not have that many regional threats if any.

Re: F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

Unread postPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 04:33
by Corsair1963
charlielima223 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Looking positively 90's ish... Visually, looks stuck in that decade.

I understand under the hood it has some impressive avionics, but with no clear cut advantage in stealth, maneuverability, weapons (once Meteor's "newness" rubs off), it's going to find it tough going in the world of 21st century air combat.


I think one thing people forget to look at is who is being marketed for this aircraft and who will be flying it. Brazil isnt exactly a major player on the international stage in terms of politics and military. Why would they need an F-35? (Though I'm sure if given the chance they would jump on board) Not every airforce in the world requires a 5th gen multirole aircraft. Brazil and South Africa do not have that many regional threats if any.


What happened if another South American Country buys the J-20 or J-31 from China???