F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 31 Oct 2018, 15:57

kimjongnumbaun wrote:David Axe rears his head again just when you thought he couldn't be less relevant.

https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-the ... r-belgium/

Axe is such an idiot. While it's not really worth the effort to try to rebutt all his stupidly wrong points, here is but one:

David Axe wrote:It’s for that reason that Pierre Sprey, co-designer of the F-16, called stealth a “scam.”

Any person who refers to Sprey as a "co-designer of the F-16" is not worth any attention. As soon as you hear or read those words, full-stop. Move on. Either you're arguing with an idiot who will not be dissuaded, or you have a helluva education lesson in front of you. Choose how you spend your time wisely.

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 31 Oct 2018, 17:15

playloud wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:I guess it depends if you consider the Gripen E a new plane or upgrade. If it’s an upgrade, then we know lots about it.

Well, they like to have it both ways. When they want to talk about reliability, and being proven, it's an upgrade. When they want to talk about capability, it's a whole new plane!

Also, how "proven" are even the A/B/C/D really? I mean, has it deployed a weapon in combat?

fire

TRUTH

@playloud

You know I tried posting over there and my posts were disappearing. I don't know if it was Harry, or Discuss being stupid. But several times he asked for proof and I posted it. Just to check back 10 minutes later and see it not there at all.

Which was just great because it made me look like a troll with no proof, when I was in fact producing it

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 31 Oct 2018, 17:19

steve2267 wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:David Axe rears his head again just when you thought he couldn't be less relevant.

https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-the ... r-belgium/

Axe is such an idiot. While it's not really worth the effort to try to rebutt all his stupidly wrong points, here is but one:
David Axe wrote:It’s for that reason that Pierre Sprey, co-designer of the F-16, called stealth a “scam.”

Any person who refers to Sprey as a "co-designer of the F-16" is not worth any attention. As soon as you hear or read those words, full-stop. Move on. Either you're arguing with an idiot who will not be dissuaded, or you have a helluva education lesson in front of you. Choose how you spend your time wisely.

Has anyone asked the people who make these assertions how he co designed the F-16 when he never worked for the company that built it?? And it was the YF-16 at the time and the YF-17. We didn't know who was going to win. Same thing with A-X It was between the YA-9, YA-10. So how did he "invent the A-10?"

Didn't he have something to do with writing some requirements for these projects, neither of which at the time had a clear winner? Doesn't the Air Force actually set the requirements, make the decisions and adjustments (the USAF increased the F-16 wing size and of course added a RADAR-- oh noes!--) and pick the winner???

When someone give Pierre sprey credit for this crap ask them how he designed the F-16 and A-10 having never worked for GD or fairchild, and never serving a day in the air force. I want to see their actual responses when posed that question.

playloud · by **playloud** » 31 Oct 2018, 17:59

XanderCrews wrote:
playloud wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:I guess it depends if you consider the Gripen E a new plane or upgrade. If it’s an upgrade, then we know lots about it.

Well, they like to have it both ways. When they want to talk about reliability, and being proven, it's an upgrade. When they want to talk about capability, it's a whole new plane!

Also, how "proven" are even the A/B/C/D really? I mean, has it deployed a weapon in combat?

fire

TRUTH

@playloud

You know I tried posting over there and my posts were disappearing. I don't know if it was Harry, or Discuss being stupid. But several times he asked for proof and I posted it. Just to check back 10 minutes later and see it not there at all.

Which was just great because it made me look like a troll with no proof, when I was in fact producing it

If it disappears after a while, it might have been auto-flagged for spam, though there is nothing currently in the spam list (all have been deleted for approved). I also don't see any of your posts in the deleted list. If you post and it happens again, let me know.

kimjongnumbaun · by **kimjongnumbaun** » 31 Oct 2018, 18:02

The best part about Axe’s assessment is his complete disregard for Belgium’s B61 requirement, which the Gripen isn’t rated to drop.

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 01 Nov 2018, 06:16

playloud wrote:If it disappears after a while, it might have been auto-flagged for spam, though there is nothing currently in the spam list (all have been deleted for approved). I also don't see any of your posts in the deleted list. If you post and it happens again, let me know.

Thanks!

Would love to debate Harry over here without that absurdly messy Disquss system..

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 01 Nov 2018, 06:21

kimjongnumbaun wrote:The best part about Axe’s assessment is his complete disregard for Belgium’s B61 requirement, which the Gripen isn’t rated to drop.

Come now, surely Neutral and peaceful Sweden is paying and prioritizing B61 capability! :lmao:

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 26 Nov 2018, 16:15

PICTURE: Saab's second Gripen E makes flight debut
26 Nov 2018 Craig Hoyle

"Saab's Gripen E flight-test programme made a significant advance on 26 November, when a second aircraft joined the activity. Flown from the Swedish manufacturer's Linkoping site, test aircraft 39-9 completed a 33min debut sortie, more than 17 months after its first example had taken to the air, in June 2017....

...Saab says aircraft 39-9 will next be involved in testing of the Gripen E's tactical systems and sensors.

The air forces of Sweden and Brazil have ordered a combined 96 of the new-generation type, with deliveries to both customers set to start in the second half of 2019."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-453900/

kimjongnumbaun · by **kimjongnumbaun** » 26 Nov 2018, 23:21

XanderCrews wrote:
Would love to debate Harry over here without that absurdly messy Disquss system..

Don't count on it. The world is a big scary place outside of BF4C.

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 27 Nov 2018, 15:21

spazsinbad wrote:
PICTURE: Saab's second Gripen E makes flight debut
26 Nov 2018 Craig Hoyle

"Saab's Gripen E flight-test programme made a significant advance on 26 November, when a second aircraft joined the activity. Flown from the Swedish manufacturer's Linkoping site, test aircraft 39-9 completed a 33min debut sortie, more than 17 months after its first example had taken to the air, in June 2017....

...Saab says aircraft 39-9 will next be involved in testing of the Gripen E's tactical systems and sensors.

The air forces of Sweden and Brazil have ordered a combined 96 of the new-generation type, with deliveries to both customers set to start in the second half of 2019."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-453900/

LOL, we're almost in 2019 and the Gripen E program so far only produced two (2) flyable prototipes in which the second prototype which only flew for the first time yesterday and is apparently the one where the sensors and tactical systems will be tested on and Saab still says that the Gripen E will enter in service next year (2019)?? :doh:

And to know that there are people criticizing the F-35 program for its delays in detriment of the Gripen E program... :roll:

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 27 Nov 2018, 16:10

It is like the little puppy that has just been toilet trained - so still very cute and about to grow into an (pick a mini dog).

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 27 Nov 2018, 19:16

26 Nov 2018 1st flight of 2nd Gripen E test aircraft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRzwm3mn45w

lbk000 · by **lbk000** » 27 Nov 2018, 20:28

Oooh, it took off!

playloud · by **playloud** » 27 Nov 2018, 21:11

ricnunes wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:
PICTURE: Saab's second Gripen E makes flight debut
26 Nov 2018 Craig Hoyle

"Saab's Gripen E flight-test programme made a significant advance on 26 November, when a second aircraft joined the activity. Flown from the Swedish manufacturer's Linkoping site, test aircraft 39-9 completed a 33min debut sortie, more than 17 months after its first example had taken to the air, in June 2017....

...Saab says aircraft 39-9 will next be involved in testing of the Gripen E's tactical systems and sensors.

The air forces of Sweden and Brazil have ordered a combined 96 of the new-generation type, with deliveries to both customers set to start in the second half of 2019."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-453900/

LOL, we're almost in 2019 and the Gripen E program so far only produced two (2) flyable prototipes in which the second prototype which only flew for the first time yesterday and is apparently the one where the sensors and tactical systems will be tested on and Saab still says that the Gripen E will enter in service next year (2019)??

And to know that there are people criticizing the F-35 program for its delays in detriment of the Gripen E program...

If this is the jet where the sensors will be tested, where is the IRST? It appears to be missing.

vilters · by **vilters** » 27 Nov 2018, 23:09

So the first flight will be in . . . . Euh . . . . 90 years from now? ? ?
They say quote " 26 Nov 2108" unquote.