F-35A versus Saab Grippen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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ricnunes

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Unread post24 Oct 2018, 20:16

hornetfinn wrote:I love that "Active Stealth" crap... Like just using EW is somehow equal or better than using complex shaping, RAM/RAS, internal weapons bays and other similar things.


Absolutely spot on, hornetfinn! :thumb:
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Tiger05

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 17:15

aasm wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:I love that "Active Stealth" crap... Like just using EW is somehow equal or better than using complex shaping, RAM/RAS, internal weapons bays and other similar things.


Absolutely spot on, hornetfinn! :thumb:


Call it crap as much as you want, i tend to believe more french air force chief of staff. (and i linked it).


General Lanata? Then you should really listen what he has to say about the F-35:

https://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-def ... air-131972

:wink:
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spazsinbad

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 18:04

The F-35 worries the air force https://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-def ... air-131972
04 Aug 2017 Jean-Dominique Merchet

"His chief of staff, General André Lanata, spoke about the American plane in front of the deputies of the defense commission.

"The F-35 will quickly become a benchmark for global air forces, not only in the United States but also among our major partners. That one is outclassed by the United States is not surprising; to be started by equivalent partners is another matter," said General Lanata, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, at his recent hearing at the National Assembly. Among these "equivalent partners", he notably cited the United Kingdom and Australia. "I see tremendous pressure from the US aviation industry in Europe, with the gradual deployment of a new generation fighter, the F-35. The latter changes the game in terms of operational capabilities mainly because of its discretion - it is not detected by current radars - and connectivity: it connects massively information with other devices in the system, aerial combat. If I speak of an air combat system, it is that we should not consider each aircraft in isolation but rather design the system as a whole: it is this system that produces effects, thanks to the connection that we arrive at between the different motions of the air combat system," he added.

Without mentioning it directly - at least in the re-read and corrected version of his audition - General Lanata addressed the issue of Germany, which is interested in the F-35 to replace the Tornados, even though no decision is expected before next year. "It seems to me interesting to take an initiative with Germany to engage in a dialogue, to study the possibilities of cooperation to replace together our fleets of combat aircraft. At first glance we could have needs similar to those of Germany in this area. We are still two countries in Europe that have investment capacity, Germany also shows the will, with the significant increase in defense budgets. Germany could be a partner provided, however, to find the balanced industrial architectures that will allow the realization of these cooperations. It will indeed be necessary to assert our assets in this domain."

Source: https://translate.google.com.au/transla ... air-131972
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Tiger05

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 19:16

Thanks spazsinbad! Yes, i should have translated that article. :?

aasm wrote:::post removed::


Nope LAnata is now SACT. At the time he was pleading for the launch of F4 Rafale standard... There are many documents about that version linked on Rafale thread.[/quote]

Rafale F4 will still lack a critical key feature: it wont be stealthy... and therefore will be no match to the F-35. As General Lanata correctly pointed out: the F-35 "will be a game changer in terms of operational capabilities mainly because of its stealth - it is not detected by current radars - and connectivity" ("Ce dernier change la donne sur le plan des capacités opérationelles en raison, principalement, de sa discrétion - il n’est pas détecté par les radars actuels - et de ses capacités de connectivité"). Yes, i speak French too. :wink:
Last edited by Tiger05 on 30 Oct 2018, 09:16, edited 1 time in total.
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magitsu

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 19:46

Nevertheless, it's quite commendable that the French Air Force trusts Rafale enough for it to become their sole platform from carriers to tactical nukes (force de frappe). That's good omen for anyone else thinking about buying - the French are going to have to develop it further on all of these fronts. Typhoon is barely in a similar situation, but if Germany doubles down after the UK's A2G investment, it's also looking good. Gripen owners on the other hand don't even carry a proper cruise missile, thus that experience is completely absent from the community.
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Tiger05

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 20:10

magitsu wrote:Nevertheless, it's quite commendable that the French Air Force trusts Rafale enough for it to become their sole platform from carriers to tactical nukes (force de frappe). That's good omen for anyone else thinking about buying - the French are going to have to develop it further on all of these fronts.


They dont have any other fighters in production so its not like they have a lot of options. They put all their eggs in the Rafale basket and now, for better or worse, they are stuck with it.

Theoretically, they could bite the bullet and buy "off the shelf" F-35s from the US to complement their Rafale fleet but it will obviously never happen for political and national pride reasons. It is just unthinkable for them.
Last edited by Tiger05 on 29 Oct 2018, 20:44, edited 2 times in total.
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magitsu

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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 20:18

Tiger05 wrote:They dont have any other fighters in production so not like they have a lot options. They put all their eggs in the Rafale basket and now, for better or worse, they are stuck with it.

True, lack of choice after Mirage retirement and economical reasons mostly. But the effect of them being balls deep is comforting if somebody else is considering signing on. What Germany does with their Mirage compatriot Tornado is interesting to see. They have some resistance even though there's no realistic domestic option.
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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 20:35

aasm wrote:
ricnunes wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:I love that "Active Stealth" crap... Like just using EW is somehow equal or better than using complex shaping, RAM/RAS, internal weapons bays and other similar things.


Absolutely spot on, hornetfinn! :thumb:


Call it crap as much as you want, i tend to believe more french air force chief of staff. (and i linked it).


Appeal to authority fallacy is a great one. I'm glad youre happy with your decision. But if you expect everyone to fall for it since "they" said it and the case is now closed forever I have some bad news.

Hey out of curiosity and just to steer this back the Gripen a tad, what happens when the French Air Force Staff and the Swedish air force staff disagree or contradict the other?

Do you just declare one smarter than the other? or is one lying? or are they both somehow right? or do you go full NPC and freeze up until you are rebooted?
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Unread post29 Oct 2018, 20:40

Tiger05 wrote:
magitsu wrote:Nevertheless, it's quite commendable that the French Air Force trusts Rafale enough for it to become their sole platform from carriers to tactical nukes (force de frappe). That's good omen for anyone else thinking about buying - the French are going to have to develop it further on all of these fronts.


They dont have any other fighters in production so not like they have a lot options. They put all their eggs in the Rafale basket and now, for better or worse, they are stuck with it.

Theoretically, they could bite the bullet and buy "off the shelf" F-35s from the US to complement their Rafale fleet but it will obviously never happen for political and national pride reasons. It is just unthinkable for them.



LOL the old "its the bestest because its the onlyest"

on Best Fighter For canada I actually had a guy telling me that putting all your fighter eggs into one basket was a dumb idea with the F-35 which is why he thought Belgium should get the Rafale...


:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
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ricnunes

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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 00:55

XanderCrews wrote:LOL the old "its the bestest because its the onlyest"

on Best Fighter For canada I actually had a guy telling me that putting all your fighter eggs into one basket was a dumb idea with the F-35 which is why he thought Belgium should get the Rafale...


:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:



LOL, the humanity (I'm kinda loosing my faith on it) :doh:
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playloud

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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 16:04

XanderCrews wrote:
Tiger05 wrote:
magitsu wrote:Nevertheless, it's quite commendable that the French Air Force trusts Rafale enough for it to become their sole platform from carriers to tactical nukes (force de frappe). That's good omen for anyone else thinking about buying - the French are going to have to develop it further on all of these fronts.


They dont have any other fighters in production so not like they have a lot options. They put all their eggs in the Rafale basket and now, for better or worse, they are stuck with it.

Theoretically, they could bite the bullet and buy "off the shelf" F-35s from the US to complement their Rafale fleet but it will obviously never happen for political and national pride reasons. It is just unthinkable for them.



LOL the old "its the bestest because its the onlyest"

on Best Fighter For canada I actually had a guy telling me that putting all your fighter eggs into one basket was a dumb idea with the F-35 which is why he thought Belgium should get the Rafale...


:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

My favorites on BF4C are the people who say the F-35 hasn't proven itself yet, so they should buy the Gripen E (and this was before the Gripen E's first flight).
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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 18:15

I guess it depends if you consider the Gripen E a new plane or upgrade. If it’s an upgrade, then we know lots about it.
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playloud

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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 18:57

kimjongnumbaun wrote:I guess it depends if you consider the Gripen E a new plane or upgrade. If it’s an upgrade, then we know lots about it.

Well, they like to have it both ways. When they want to talk about reliability, and being proven, it's an upgrade. When they want to talk about capability, it's a whole new plane!

Also, how "proven" are even the A/B/C/D really? I mean, has it deployed a weapon in combat?

And no, forest fires don't count.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22 ... orest-fire
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Unread post30 Oct 2018, 20:30

The Gripen has done a recon mission over some non operational SAM sites in Libya or Yemen.

Regardless of being a new plane or upgrade, it is ridiculously behind schedule for something that is quite unsophisticated and using very old off the shelf technology.
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Unread post31 Oct 2018, 04:51

David Axe rears his head again just when you thought he couldn't be less relevant.

https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-the ... r-belgium/
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