F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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lbk000

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Unread post17 Jun 2018, 00:30

Considering how far the Gripen E is from being a real thing...

Just what was it that flew a year ago?
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loke

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Unread post17 Jun 2018, 08:06

lbk000 wrote:Considering how far the Gripen E is from being a real thing...

Just what was it that flew a year ago?

The Gripen that flew one year ago was Gripen 39-8, the first of three Gripen E prototypes:

Three single-seat Gripen E prototypes will be completed. Aircraft 39-8 will mainly be used for airframe and general flight control tests and 39-9 as a tactical systems test-bed, while 39-10 will be completed as a production-standard airframe.


https://airforcesmonthly.keypublishing. ... -contract/

According to this article from May this year, the program remains on track to deliver the first serial production Gripen E in 2019:

"We are preparing for the next phase of flight trials – that is, external stores," says Jonas Hjelm, head of Saab's aeronautics business unit. Since the first prototype's flight debut in June 2017, the programme has remained on track, he says, with recent milestones including achieving supersonic flight.

"We are on track. We will deliver according to the contracts that we have," Hjelm confirms. Saab has current orders from the Swedish and Brazilian air forces for a combined 96 E/F-model fighters, with both expected to receive their first examples before the end of 2019.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ls-448691/


I hope this answers your question.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post18 Jul 2018, 21:40

Second Gripen NG Prototype Close to First Flight
18 Jul 2018 Tony Osborne

"Saab is gearing up to fly the second and third prototypes of its JAS-39E Gripen NG. The two aircraft, code-named 39-9 and 39-10, are due to fly “soon,” Jonas Hjelm, the company’s senior vice president for aeronautics, told journalists.
Images shown by the company revealed that 39-9 was largely complete and was undergoing painting at the company’s Linkoping plant. Flight trials with the first aircraft, 39-8, which first flew last June, are continuing, with the aircraft supporting flight envelope expansion tests.

Most recently the aircraft has been flying with underwing pylons produced by Switzerland’s RUAG Aerostructures, while IRIS-T air-to-air missiles have been mounted on the wingtip launchers. The IRIS-T will be the aircraft’s primary short-range air-to-air missile in Swedish service.

The flight tests with pylons will pave the way for future tests for weapon and fuel tank carriage and release. As the new jets join the test program, they will be fitted out with the electronic warfare systems, radar and other sensors. The Leonardo Raven ES-05 radar is already being tested in the 39-7 demonstrator jet, Hjelm said.

Hjelm said that the company’s approach to onboard software – that of separating flight-critical software from the tactical systems – has paid off, with 39-9 being equipped with more powerful computer hardware. The process has taken weeks and days rather than months, as has been found by other fighter manufacturers. “It allows us to be much quicker, and gives us a cutting edge,” said Hjelm…. [to go slow?]

...There are also plans to introduce an active electronically scanned array radar, although Hjelm would not detail the source of the radar.

Hjelm also suggested that the U.S. and UK could be potential customers for its unarmed Gripen Aggressor platform, which the company has been marketing to commercial operators of fast jet platforms to support red-air and aggressor training.
Cooperation with Brazil is continuing with the recent opening of an aerostructures facility there to support the Gripen development in country. Hjelm said that both Brazil and Sweden were discussing how to further standardize the configuration of the jets being purchased by the two countries. Brazil is looking at introducing a wide-area display cockpit developed by AEL Sistema; Sweden, on the other hand, is looking at a more traditional cockpit with three multi-function displays. Hjelm hinted that the two countries could opt for a single cockpit configuration."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-air ... rst-flight
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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magitsu

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Unread post19 Jul 2018, 16:42

IOC for Swedish Air Force is in 2023, so that's not close as 2019 first production delivery might suggest.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post27 Jul 2018, 18:54

magitsu wrote:IOC for Swedish Air Force is in 2023, so that's not close as 2019 first production delivery might suggest.



Not bad at all for a Gen 4.5 fighter around 20 years after everyone else got Gen 4.5 fighters into service :doh:
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post27 Jul 2018, 19:05

Don't forget, Mr. BS claimed that the Gripen E is a 6th gen jet :doh:
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loke

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Unread post03 Aug 2018, 12:23

From Saab in 2015:

The Swedish-AF Gripen programme is well under way now that we’ve reshuffled it. Originally we planned to deliver to the Flygvapnet their first new aircraft in 2022. At that time the Swiss-AF was asking for planes by 2018. Following the Swiss rejection in 2014 the referendum however, FMV [the Swedish armament agency] asked to align the offerings with Brazil's timeframes. So now Sweden and Brazil will start deliveries of the single-seat E-model from 2019 on, delivered from Linköpping. This gives us time to harmonise the configuration – and it’s very important to have as close a configuration as possible.


http://internationalfighter.iqpc.co.uk/ ... /50607.pdf

So in 2015 they confirmed a reshuffle of the program due to a request from the FMV -- since then they have been on track to deliver first fighter in 2019 -- still room for delays but so far it looks good.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post03 Aug 2018, 14:47

loke wrote:From Saab in 2015:

The Swedish-AF Gripen programme is well under way now that we’ve reshuffled it. Originally we planned to deliver to the Flygvapnet their first new aircraft in 2022. At that time the Swiss-AF was asking for planes by 2018. Following the Swiss rejection in 2014 the referendum however, FMV [the Swedish armament agency] asked to align the offerings with Brazil's timeframes. So now Sweden and Brazil will start deliveries of the single-seat E-model from 2019 on, delivered from Linköpping. This gives us time to harmonise the configuration – and it’s very important to have as close a configuration as possible.


http://internationalfighter.iqpc.co.uk/ ... /50607.pdf

So in 2015 they confirmed a reshuffle of the program due to a request from the FMV -- since then they have been on track to deliver first fighter in 2019 -- still room for delays but so far it looks good.




Not you or your fault loke, but whenever an F-35 guy says anything about the F-35 "reshuffling" Gripen fans crucify him. But an F-35 guy points out any of the dozens of timelines given for this program or the "reshuffling" of partners... the excuses flow like an avalanche. And even have the audacity to claim its never been delayed...
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element1loop

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 10:05

SpudmanWP wrote:Don't forget, Mr. BS claimed that the Gripen E is a 6th gen jet :doh:


The moment they claim '6th-gen' they strip off all veneer of cred. Pathetic, desperate, plainly false, yet also-ran fans keep doing it! ..... LOL ..... who do ya call? :mrgreen:
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charlielima223

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 21:06

I get that he is trying to sell the Gripen E to potential costumers but... maybe I am biased (I'm just a big bearded American winning machine), it seems like he is over selling it.

This is the most advanced combat aircraft in development in the world. Forget what anybody else is telling you. This is the future.

It has a new AESA radar. It has a new IRST system over the nose. These are key counter stealth systems.

It has by far the most capable electronic warfare system under development anywhere in the western world today.


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steve2267

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Unread post04 Aug 2018, 21:54

Taking his quotes at face value, he may not be lying...

charlielima223 wrote:
This is the most advanced combat aircraft in development in the world. Forget what anybody else is telling you. This is the future.

The F-35 technically is no longer in development, correct? SDD has been completed. So from that perspective, if the F-35 is no longer in development, this statement may be true. (Not sure what is "in development" in China, though. And SU-57 may no longer be "in development.")
charlielima223 wrote:
It has a new AESA radar. It has a new IRST system over the nose. These are key counter stealth systems.

While these may be "key counter stealth systems", I think the Gripen E would be dead long before it has found its stealth opponent. Now maybe this is true for the F-35 and F-22, but maybe, somehow, not sure, but somehow maybe this might be true for the SU-57 and the Chinese VLO aircraft. But even that may be a stretch.
charlielima223 wrote:
It has by far the most capable electronic warfare system under development anywhere in the western world today.

Again... this may be true now that the F-35 is out of SDD. Then such a claim may not be that the Gripen E has a more capable EWS than the F-35. If that is what they are claiming, OTOH, then I doubt their claims. How could they even claim it is more advanced than the F-35, though -- have they been read into all the classified bits of the JSF program? Somehow I doubt that...

[/quote]
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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gta4

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Unread post05 Aug 2018, 17:40

https://youtu.be/JjOZIm8tlDg
OK OK I am convinced JAS39E is the most advanced combat aircraft in western world. Forget F-35, forget typhoon, forget what others tell you, this is THE FUTURE.
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citanon

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Unread post05 Aug 2018, 18:28

Even if you consider the F35 as out of development, he's stretching the truth on all of it.

Rafale tranch 4 or whatever they call it is also in development. Grippen is getting its AESA radar from Thales, which is a French company.

One of Thale's next priorities is to develop an EA mode for the next Rafale, which means that capability sure as heck won't be on the Gripen E.

Gripen will have a nice AESA based defensive EW system with wideband wing tip GaN AESA antennae a little larger than the F35's MADL apertures, so it will be pretty advanced, but it won't compare with the focused power of jamming signals coming out of the front of something like the APG-81.
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Unread post05 Aug 2018, 18:49

Sounded like marketing to me, with a touch (but noticeable) amount of desperation...

The only real valid point he made was price/cost. But even assuming Gripen E beats all others on that metric, the onus will be on them to disprove the old, "you get what you pay for" adage. I think that's the biggest obstacle the Gripen or Gripen E needs to overcome. In a lot of ways, it's like the SU-57.

True, it may be cheaper. But less expensive generally means less capable, especially when you're main competitor is the F-35. It costs less because its systems aren't as capable, a direct consequence of less money being spent in its EWS, AESA etc etc.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, despite what you may be hearing here..
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steve2267

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Unread post05 Aug 2018, 19:44

F-35 appears to be on track for about $80M / copy. Has anyone seen any price information for the vaunted Gripen E?

I like the Gripen. I really do. IMO, it would make a decent complement to the F-35. But as others have pointed out... so would used F-16s.

Has anyone see pricing information for the new F-16V (aka Blk 70 Viper)? I have a hard time believing LM will be able to sell it for less than the F-35 -- or for significantly less. I have a hard time believing Saab can sell the Gripen E for less than the F-16V, or the F-35.

Good luck to them. I hope the succeed, but they have a hard row to hoe. Still, salesmen gotta sell...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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