F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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gta4

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 02:36

Ok so F35 has better nose authority and better acceleration. What does gripen have?
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hornetfinn

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 13:26

Here is the best source for Gripen performance figures that I've found:
http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... Gripen.pdf

Basically:
STR of 20 degrees/second at low level
Roll rate of 240 degrees/second (at Mach 0.79 at 15,000 ft)
Acceleration from Mach 0.5 to Mach 1.1 takes approximately 30 seconds at low level

AFAIK, these are somewhat below F-16 Block 50 and acceleration figure is quite a bit below. Not really surprising as T/W ratio is significantly lower. With heavier weapons and EFTs etc the situation becomes comparatively worse for the smaller Gripen.

Of course the Swiss evaluation report also stated that Gripen performance figures and endurance were inferior to F/A-18C/D with -402 engines. Not really surprising as that Hornet version is not far away from Block 50 F-16 in most perfomance figures.

I say that Gripen pilot is going to be in serious trouble against F-35 even in WVR and totally clean.
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f-16adf

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 15:22

Hornetfinn,

Many thanks for the article. I had something similar to that (CA or FI), and it said basically the same thing. I do remember it saying STR was about 20 degrees. It also said (I believe) that the Gripen ITR was about 30 degrees (at low level). Ironically, which is rather similar to the Lavi EM chart figures. (Both are tiny canard deltas, with similar wing/high canard, and T/W ratio).

Thanks again-
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gta4

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 17:11

I would say STR and ITR figures are useless if your apponent can do J turn while you can't. That is a lot faster than 30deg/sec.
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gta4

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 17:18

Interesting thread. The ability to guide a2a missile with 360 coverage das is not counted yet.
Last edited by gta4 on 19 Apr 2018, 17:21, edited 1 time in total.
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gta4

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Unread post19 Apr 2018, 17:19

Another proof why Gripen will be in serious trouble even F35 doen't use J turn capability:
Gripen's turn rate will drop as energy depletes. so its average turn rate will be significantly lower than 30 deg/sec, so the time required to turn 270 deg will be much longer than 9 sec.

Remember how F35 showed its ability to loop 270 deg in 9 sec?

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53270
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optimist

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 03:26

When I want to know the facts. I always defer to YouTube and the comments section. :mrgreen:




Aussie fanboy
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citanon

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 06:58

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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 06:58

f-16adf wrote:Hornetfinn,

Many thanks for the article. I had something similar to that (CA or FI), and it said basically the same thing. I do remember it saying STR was about 20 degrees. It also said (I believe) that the Gripen ITR was about 30 degrees (at low level). Ironically, which is rather similar to the Lavi EM chart figures. (Both are tiny canard deltas, with similar wing/high canard, and T/W ratio).

Thanks again-


No problem! :D

Lavi comparison is very interesting, never thought about that. It seems that Lavi and Gripen do have very many similar features and design choices. Performance levels also seem pretty similar. Lavi seems to be somewhat more ambitious project with very high weapons load goal for such a small fighter jet.
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vanshilar

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 13:01

gta4 wrote:Ok so F35 has better nose authority and better acceleration. What does gripen have?


Better marketing.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 13:11

vanshilar wrote:
gta4 wrote:Ok so F35 has better nose authority and better acceleration. What does gripen have?


Better marketing.


I'd say they may have better PR but not marketing as so small number of Gripens have actually been sold. Target marget (Air forces around the world) has not been impressed enough by Gripen to go and buy them. Saab PR has impressed large portion of general public but that's about it.
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swefrank

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 17:09

f-16adf wrote:Swefrank,

Did you ever fight WVR against Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale, if so, how did the Gripen fair?


From my point of view, Typhoon vs Gripen is a close match with a slight advantage to the Typhoon. But pilot skills really matters here, a fight between two good pilots normally ends up in a stalemate. I have no personal experience of the Rafale.

But, as a lot of guys have stated earlier, the Gripen is a small aircraft and its performance is more affected if you put some payload on it. But still, a Gripen with one drop tank, 2xIRIS-T and the Cobra HMD is lethal in a close in fight (just like a F-16/18/35 with 9X and JHMCS/F-35 HMD).
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 18:24

gta4 wrote:Another proof why Gripen will be in serious trouble even F35 doen't use J turn capability:
Gripen's turn rate will drop as energy depletes. so its average turn rate will be significantly lower than 30 deg/sec, so the time required to turn 270 deg will be much longer than 9 sec.

Remember how F35 showed its ability to loop 270 deg in 9 sec?

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53270


The current Gripen can do a vertical 180 deg loop in about 6 sec so it can match that F-35 performance.

viewtopic.php?p=388666#p388666
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citanon

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 18:35

vanshilar wrote:
gta4 wrote:Ok so F35 has better nose authority and better acceleration. What does gripen have?


Better marketing.


Better bribes apparently :D
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playloud

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 18:59

swefrank, would you be able to comment on the combat radius of the Gripen? Some have questioned the advertised numbers.
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