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Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 19:15
by SpudmanWP
This was the quote I was referring to which is more than just a cannon for A2G replacement.

EOTS guided HPAKWS for the WVR fight?

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 19:21
by sferrin
archeman wrote:Compare those control surfaces of APKWS to these control surfaces (hint: there are none):
(sorry about the screaming)


Which doesn't matter because those projectiles don't manuever. I think what you're thinking of is something like this:

look01-1337804560718.jpg


IMG_5662.jpg


http://www.defensereview.com/sandia-lab ... -possible/

Or maybe:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... #msg231875

There was even a 40mm round tested back in the late 80s. It didn't have control fins but used tiny one-shot thrusters like the KKV in the ASM-135 ASAT. At that time they said the technology could be scaled up to everything including the 16" rounds used on the Iowas and down to 20mm.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 22:59
by archeman
sferrin wrote:
Which doesn't matter because those projectiles don't manuever. I think what you're thinking of is something like this:



Nah...
What I was thinking of was what I said ---- in response to the suggestion in an earlier post that APKWS replace the 25mm cannon on the F-35A.

IF your going to consider APKWS, it should be in a centerline pod - not 25mm cannon replacement. And I agree that in their current form, APKWS doesn't represent a viable A2A weapon against anything other than low G drones or something that would be slow, dumb and cooperative enough to allow you to paint it continuously with a laser designator.

That centerline pod wouldn't prevent you from also having those groovy-cool steering bullets of course....

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 23:01
by count_to_10
Unfortunately, the sabot means it can't be used on forward firing aircraft. Interesting fin arrangement.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 23:08
by count_to_10
archeman wrote:
sferrin wrote:
Which doesn't matter because those projectiles don't manuever. I think what you're thinking of is something like this:



Nah...
What I was thinking of was what I said ---- in response to the suggestion in an earlier post that APKWS replace the 25mm cannon on the F-35A.

IF your going to consider APKWS, it should be in a centerline pod - not 25mm cannon replacement. And I agree that in their current form, APKWS doesn't represent a viable A2A weapon against anything other than low G drones or something that would be slow, dumb and cooperative enough to allow you to paint it continuously with a laser designator.

That centerline pod wouldn't prevent you from also having those groovy-cool steering bullets of course....

I don't think even the most nimble fighter is going to be able to prevent an F-35 from keeping it continuously painted with its laser designator while it is within the field of regard.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 01:33
by quicksilver
sferrin wrote:
quicksilver wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire


"An electrical anomaly had caused the discharge of a Zuni rocket on"


And this one too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_fire

"when a Zuni rocket, equipped with a 15-pound warhead of Composition B explosive, mounted on a F-4J Phantom parked on the stern, exploded after being heated by the exhaust from an MD-3A "Huffer", a tractor-mounted air starting unit used to start aircraft."

So what? Fix the rocket and move on. Don't whine about it.


I must have sudden reading comprehension deficit cuz I missed the part where anyone was whining about anything.
The "so what" was how many hundred casualties? :wtf:

I was simply pointing out that the memory of rockets on ships is not a comfortable one for many in an institution with a very long memory; I am not a member of that tribe but I understand their culture and customs. :salute:

As for fixing the problem, HERO challenges aboard ship(s) have resulted in decades of efforts to address "RF-insensitive" primers on electrically-primed ordnance. If they think the bang is worth the bucks, I'm sure they'll get around to fixing rockets too.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 23:25
by arian
talkitron wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Secondly, it's interesting that you mention that Su-34 - This is probably the Russian combat aircraft that I probably respect the most. However this is NOT a fighter aircraft. This is a Bomber! Yes, it can carry and launch the AA-12 and it was developed from a fighter aircraft (Su-27) but nevertheless this is still a Bomber. ...


The Su-34 is an aircraft designed and purchased for ground attack but it is capable of self protection when flying such missions. In the BVR realm it might be a fourth generation beast as it carries a huge radar! It's just too expensive to waste on BVR air defense when Russia also has Mig-31s specifically for BVR air defense.


Su-34 is certainly capable of self-defense and probably better at that than most of the Su-27s out there. But, it's not a "beast" in that role. The radar is actually smaller than on an Su-27/30/35 platform due to its shape. Details of it are unknown but according to some sources it has a "50% detection probability against an air target at 120km distance". ( http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/Su-32_48.html ) That's not impressive in air-air, as the radar is probably more fine tuned for ground operations.

In ground modes, the Su-34's radar is not so impressive either: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/radar-system-sh-141/

Manufacturer claims it can create a 2.5 x 2.5km window with a resolution of 10-15m. APG-70 of F-15E, which is early-mid 1980s vintage, had a similar map size mode but with a resolution of 5m at that map size (minimum resolution on APG-70 was 2.5m, which was later reduced to about 1m in early 90s upgrades). Russian manufacturer does not say from what range this can be done on Su-34 radar (for APG-70 it was from 75km).

So it is certainly inferior to 1980s US radars in ground mode (and air), and in fact is is quite inferior to Su-35 radar too, although comparable to Su-30 radar in ground mode. Which is not surprising since the Su-34's radar is a contemporary of the Su-30 Bars radar.

Which makes the Russian parallel development of 3 similar planes even more problematic than their usual redundancy practices. Su-34 is no better than an Su-30 in ground attack, and worst in air, and both are worst than Su-35 in both air and ground. And yet all three are in production and being fielded.

By fielding all three they are really screwing themselves over.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 07:12
by arian
archeman wrote:
sferrin wrote:
Which doesn't matter because those projectiles don't manuever. I think what you're thinking of is something like this:



Nah...
What I was thinking of was what I said ---- in response to the suggestion in an earlier post that APKWS replace the 25mm cannon on the F-35A.

IF your going to consider APKWS, it should be in a centerline pod - not 25mm cannon replacement. And I agree that in their current form, APKWS doesn't represent a viable A2A weapon against anything other than low G drones or something that would be slow, dumb and cooperative enough to allow you to paint it continuously with a laser designator.

That centerline pod wouldn't prevent you from also having those groovy-cool steering bullets of course....


There's no need for a centerline pod as these weapons don't have the range or the ability to be used in anything other than close support, where stealth isn't going to be much of an issue (they can see you by eye). For the close-support mission, yes this would be a great weapon but just put in underwing pylons like everything else you'd use in such a mission.

BTW the ability to use them from fixed-wing aircraft is only a recent development.


Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 21:40
by spazsinbad

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 22:00
by neptune
[quote="spazsinbad"]https://www.f35.com/about/carrytheload

.....EXCELLENT!!, My. day is made!
:)

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:20
by popcorn
How many SACMs in beast mode? :mrgreen:

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:30
by SpudmanWP
popcorn wrote:How many SACMs in beast mode? :mrgreen:

44

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:35
by count_to_10
SpudmanWP wrote:
popcorn wrote:How many SACMs in beast mode? :mrgreen:

44

That...sounds like something out of an Ace Combat game.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:43
by popcorn
Death Blossom.

Re: Full load F-35--Preparing the Warfighter for the Frontli

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 03:41
by jetblast16
Beast Mode...that's a lot of slammers :shock: