F-35 unconventional tactics - your ideas?

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 22:22

Why bother with trying to match highway speed.. Just drive a SAM launcher (hidden in a shipping container) on the highway and launch passively.

Btw, AWACS are used more in a defensive posture over friendly territory puts a damper on your plan.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 22:35

vilters wrote:Nothing simpler then to sneak to an AWACS when you more or less know where it's gonna be.


LOL sure!

Why does nobody think outside of the box anymore?????


Its not outside the box



Think.
it is dead simple to get to an AWACS or ANY other plane.
But you have to think outside of the box.

PS : it is even simpler when they fly a steady patrol route.
Then just let him come into YOUR firing range. Now THAT's what I call having FUN.

Think outside of the box.

Got it yet?

No?

Still no go?


Yep still a no go.

You"ll find me at 100 kts and 100Ft above a train doing also 100 kts.


LOL Below stall speed at 100 ft? What could go wrong?

Yes, yes, he did see the train coming, then removed the ground "clutter" (and me) LOL, LOL, LOL..
If you are not comfortable at 100 ft and 100kts, you"r in the wrong plane for the mission.

When In range?
Burner.
Nose up.
FIRE.



LOL ok. and You were in the Belgian Air force?? Seriously?

Because thats hollywood writing right there!!


Dive for the next train to get outa there. In some countries you can take the highway and equalize speed.
Anyway, they"ll have a hard time finding a firing solution against all the ground clutter on the way out.
And if it gets too hot?
Throttle ide, gear down, land, walk away.



Image


A "high value asset" is worth taking the airplane gamble, and the risk for the pilot is minimal.



LOL christ vilters. You may have topped your P-47s to destroy ISIS, Coca Cola 737, and HAnd Grenage Piper Cubs all in one post. Now we have the Train plane.
Last edited by XanderCrews on 19 Jan 2018, 22:53, edited 2 times in total.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 22:43

SpudmanWP wrote:Why bother with trying to match highway speed.. Just drive a SAM launcher (hidden in a shipping container) on the highway and launch passively.


What!? Thats not convoluted enough.


Far better to have a fighter at 100 KNOTS and 100 feet!! LOLOLOLOL And we all know how smart that would be in a fighter thats also loaded for combat and heavy enough to have an afterburner.

Do it boys. 100 knots and 100 ft --armed! What could go wrong?!

Btw, AWACS are used more in a defensive posture over friendly territory puts a damper on your plan.


Think outside the box. For some reason the AWACS has stumbled into enemy territory even though it has a radar that sees hundreds of miles, and dozens of fighters that can be vectored against any threat.

Did I mention the train has a billboard of naked ladies on it? And a car that reads "Free pizza" and thus the AWACS pilots will fly to visually spot teh boobies and smell food?

Think outside the box.
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vilters

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Unread post19 Jan 2018, 22:57

So sorry, I forgot.
100 kts at 100 ft is not in your ROE's and Procedures. So it can not be done.

That's your limitation : You are prohibited to "think".

Sorry, my mistake.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 00:29

vilters wrote:So sorry, I forgot.
100 kts at 100 ft is not in your ROE's and Procedures. So it can not be done.


It can't be done because the stall speed on an F-16 is about 120 knots at best vilters, and if the pilot makes one error it could result in a crash... over a train.

The nose alpha on an F-16 is limited as well.

You specifically mentioned afterburners so I'm curious how many fighter class airplanes equipped with afterburners are cruising and controllable at 100 knots let alone not falling out of the sky. (And with no room to recover at that.)

Name some, I'll wait. In fact I think there is only one:


Image



That's your limitation : You are prohibited to "think".

Sorry, my mistake.


Lol no vilters I just think beyond your original idea -- to the actual logistics and feasibility of how one would bring that plan to fruition.

But if you "thinking" you are so unique and unprohibited is so special to you, maybe you can go to another forum where people don't know what stall speed is.


How do you "think" past physics Vilters? And i dont mean with hallucinogens. What amount of rewriting the ROEs changes airflow over a wing?

Please explain.
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neptune

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 00:59

Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) is;
- a fast switching narrow directional communications data link between a flight of F-35 aircraft
- is expected to provide needed (broad band) throughput, latency, frequency-hopping and anti-jamming capability with phased array antennas that send and receive tightly directed radio signals
- uses the Ku band
- has linked F-35B to USS Desert Ship LLS-1 for SM-6 targeting
- "could" link F-35 to "inflight" air refueling tankers
- "could" link F-35 to AWACS type a/c; E-3, E-2D, etc.
- "could" link F-35 to ships in CSG (CVN, CG, DDG, LCS/ FFG) or ARG (LHA/D, LPD, LSD)
:)
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count_to_10

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 01:21

vilters wrote:Nothing simpler then to sneak to an AWACS when you more or less know where it's gonna be.

Why does nobody think outside of the box anymore?????

Think.
it is dead simple to get to an AWACS or ANY other plane.
But you have to think outside of the box.

PS : it is even simpler when they fly a steady patrol route.
Then just let him come into YOUR firing range. Now THAT's what I call having FUN.

Think outside of the box.

Got it yet?

No?

Still no go?

You"ll find me at 100 kts and 100Ft above a train doing also 100 kts.

Yes, yes, he did see the train coming, then removed the ground "clutter" (and me) LOL, LOL, LOL..
If you are not comfortable at 100 ft and 100kts, you"r in the wrong plane for the mission.

When In range?
Burner.
Nose up.
FIRE.

Dive for the next train to get outa there. In some countries you can take the highway and equalize speed.
Anyway, they"ll have a hard time finding a firing solution against all the ground clutter on the way out.
And if it gets too hot?
Throttle ide, gear down, land, walk away.

A "high value asset" is worth taking the airplane gamble, and the risk for the pilot is minimal.

So, you read Debt of Honor?
Though, in hind sight, that wouldn’t have worked: the helicopter’s rotor would have given it away, even if its body was hidden by matching speed to the train. Also, the F15/F-22 shadow trick was probably unnecessary.
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

Uncertainty: Learn it, love it, live it.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 01:25

Why not fly a fighter asset or two CLOSE to the wings of the BIG BOY so that they all appear as one big DOT. Bogey gets close then WHAMMO! Splash one boogie man. A4Gs used to emulate KENNEL missiles under wings of HS748s for exercise.

Never happen-like a lot of other BAD IDEAS. Why risk your BIG BOY asset with such nonsense? Shoot the bogies down ASAP.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 03:23

Is Vilters on his Cessna kick again? Cessna with BVR missiles to shoot down AWACS? Well, that would have to be Cessna with IR missiles... MICA-IR? ASRAAM? Needs a BVR IR seeker. Who's going to lend those to some Skyhawks or 182's?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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madrat

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 04:38

The EODAS is basically built on IIR technology from AAMs. So what stops them from mounting cheap rockets with multiple seekers for basically scanning purposes? Doesn't need Mach 4 capabilities, could easily stay transonic and trade speed for endurance. The goal isn't to kill F-35, merely to drive it to an area away from friendlies. If the F-35 can be spotted you greatly increase it's vulnerability and it allows you to take the offensive.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 04:51

You need get within 10miles of an F-35 to see it.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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element1loop

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 11:16

Is pervasive lSR and SA and comms making AEW&C, JSTARS, etc., more redundant anyway?

i.e. less high-value or critical from here?

Seems the whole strategy of taking down supports is a bit desperate and missing the point. That ship has sailed.
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neptune

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 11:33

element1loop wrote:Is pervasive lSR and SA and comms making AEW&C, JSTARS, etc., more redundant anyway?

i.e. less high-value or critical from here?

Seems the whole strategy of taking down supports is a bit desperate and missing the point. That ship has sailed.


....MADL, ku-band is tight beam directional or "satcom"; AWACS radar range vs F-35 radar range at 200 miles forward. Same coverage? Is AWACS further back or CONUS?, as in no AWACS.
:)
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monkeypilot

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 13:06

In fact we are walking at a pretty fast pace towards a "demarialization" of AWAS into a network (with much fewer nodes) of assets (see F-35, Rafale F4, EFCAS etc.).

AWACS can (and have been) sneaked in, and still are very important and powerful for any modern airforce. For how long is another subject.
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vilters

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Unread post20 Jan 2018, 14:28

Clustering multiple fighters into a single dot is from the old school and "Top Gun" movie era.
Hiding below an airliner with an active Flight Plan has also been done.

But there is at least a good remark here too. :P

What's the future of AWACS (as we know it now) with the modern avionix in the newer fighters.
But then again, when they "grow" into full bore Command and Control centers as primary function?
They stay a "high value target" worth the risk to invent "out of the box" tactics.

Euh, Somebody got brown underpants along the way? => Stall speed of the F-16 at 120 kts? => Ahunm . . . . . .
What's on your wings? Bombs and tanks?

On such a mission, I"ll find me a block 10-15 at the most, have gun, drum, transponder and all other "dead" weight removed, and with a cg as far aft as possible. (A block 5 would be the lightest, but they have the small tails.)
Give some, take some.

The primary goal is to get the AWACS (or equivalent high value asset) . Getting home is optional.
That's what "thinking like a terrorist" is all about, and its completely outside of your "comfort zones".
Start thinking like a terrorist who's on a mission.

Sometimes, its hard to believe believe how conservative you guys are over here.
It's not behind a desk that you win a war, but by individual initiative and taking calculated risks from time to time.

On the ground we have suicide bombers who blow themselves up for whatever the reason they believe in.
In WW2 we got the Kamikaze pilots. Same thing, different tool.
You only have to get someone mad enouch to do it.

And what's more (again thinking like the "bad" guy).

You get twice the price money. The AWACS and the 72 virgins. :devil: (But you can put those on hold), because a good pilot will land.
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