Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 05:32
by spazsinbad
Let’s Do More Shots
28 Mar 2017 John A. Tirpak

"​The F-35 program office is looking at adding capacity for another AIM-120 AMRAAM radar-guided air-to-air missile in each of the jet’s two weapons bays, increasing internal—and thus stealthy—missile loadout by 50 percent, program director Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan said March 22. Speaking with reporters after his speech at a McAleese/Credit Suisse conference in Washington, D.C., Bogdan said, “There is potential … to add a third missile on each side.”

The upgrade would likely be part of the Block IV program of F-35 enhancements, but “that’s something I know the services and all the partners” are interested in. Bogdan said this would not require some special version of AMRAAM, but “the same AMRAAM missiles that we carry today, just an extra one; probably on the weapons bay door.” The F-35 can carry two AMRAAMs in each bay now, or a mix of AMRAAMs and Joint Direct Attack Munitions internally. “There’s a lot of engineering work to go with that,” Bogdan cautioned, and he did not speculate on when such a change could be made."

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pa ... 202017/Let’s-Do-More-Shots.aspx

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 05:58
by popcorn
but “the same AMRAAM missiles that we carry today, just an extra one; probably on the weapons bay door.”

Isn't the weapon station on the bay door already being used for the AMRAAM?

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 10:17
by bring_it_on
Probably misspoke but what is important is that they may be looking at bringing the expanded weapons carriage ahead of what they had planned to do earlier. This is great news.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 10:35
by krorvik
popcorn wrote:Isn't the weapon station on the bay door already being used for the AMRAAM?


He probably refers to the second door I think.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 11:29
by garrya
Outer door ?
Image

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 20:37
by krorvik
Awful tight with the jdam. Might be a better fit with another amraam in that spot.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 20:51
by spazsinbad
Probably there is a better screenshot somewhere else on the forum however here is one from this video showing the SIX...


Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 22:19
by kimjongnumbaun
I thought 6 AIM-120s was always the planned capacity for Block 4.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 22:28
by spazsinbad
That would be the case: "...The upgrade would likely be part of the Block IV program of F-35 enhancements...." perhaps expedited from what OP indicates?

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 23:40
by count_to_10
krorvik wrote:
popcorn wrote:Isn't the weapon station on the bay door already being used for the AMRAAM?


He probably refers to the second door I think.

That's weird. If there is room for four SDBs in the A2G spot (with clearance to launch), there should be enough room for two AMRAAM there. Mounting another hardpoint on the outer door would probably require a lot of structure work and re-wiring.
Though maybe a sidewinder would fit on the door with everything else...

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 00:27
by steve2267
count_to_10 wrote:
krorvik wrote:He probably refers to the second door I think.

That's weird. If there is room for four SDBs in the A2G spot (with clearance to launch), there should be enough room for two AMRAAM there. Mounting another hardpoint on the outer door would probably require a lot of structure work and re-wiring.
Though maybe a sidewinder would fit on the door with everything else...


Another something (AMRAAM or Sidewinder) on the other door would most probably become a stores separation issue for anything carried where the JDAM is mounted in the above photo. Personally I don't think you have clearance for your JDAM-location weapons if you put a Sidewinder on the other door.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 19:11
by tomcattech
Good news, but I would think development of an internal trapeze for AIM-9X internal carriage would be just as important.

Maybe it is already in the plans for a future block I am unaware of?

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 20:27
by neptune
tomcattech wrote:Good news, but I would think development of an internal trapeze for AIM-9X internal carriage would be just as important.

Maybe it is already in the plans for a future block I am unaware of?


Why?, "The new Block II variant adds a redesigned fuze and a digital ignition safety device that enhances ground handling and in-flight safety. It also features updated electronics that enable significant enhancements, including lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) capability using a new weapon datalink to support beyond visual range engagements."

..if it is truly HOBS and LOAL why can't it simply be dropped (or kicked out) similar to other missiles and lock up a target when clear of the launch. No rail required! :?: :?:

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 21:10
by tomcattech
neptune wrote:
tomcattech wrote:Good news, but I would think development of an internal trapeze for AIM-9X internal carriage would be just as important.

Maybe it is already in the plans for a future block I am unaware of?


Why?, "The new Block II variant adds a redesigned fuze and a digital ignition safety device that enhances ground handling and in-flight safety. It also features updated electronics that enable significant enhancements, including lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) capability using a new weapon datalink to support beyond visual range engagements."

..if it is truly HOBS and LOAL why can't it simply be dropped (or kicked out) similar to other missiles and lock up a target when clear of the launch. No rail required! :?: :?:


If AIM-9X will have that capability I agree... however it makes one wonder the challenges a "dropped" weapon would face in a high G \ high alpha \ knife in a phone booth situation as compared to the standard "bottle rocket" off the rails send off.

There could be no real challenges at all... just thinking out loud.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 21:23
by alloycowboy
tomcattech wrote:
neptune wrote:
tomcattech wrote:Good news, but I would think development of an internal trapeze for AIM-9X internal carriage would be just as important.

Maybe it is already in the plans for a future block I am unaware of?


Why?, "The new Block II variant adds a redesigned fuze and a digital ignition safety device that enhances ground handling and in-flight safety. It also features updated electronics that enable significant enhancements, including lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) capability using a new weapon datalink to support beyond visual range engagements."

..if it is truly HOBS and LOAL why can't it simply be dropped (or kicked out) similar to other missiles and lock up a target when clear of the launch. No rail required! :?: :?:


If AIM-9X will have that capability I agree... however it makes one wonder the challenges a "dropped" weapon would face in a high G \ high alpha \ knife in a phone booth situation as compared to the standard "bottle rocket" off the rails send off.

There could be no real challenges at all... just thinking out loud.


Also thinking out loud, if you got yourself in knife fight in a phone booth in an F-35 you did some thing seriously wrong.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 01:19
by nutshell
IIRC aim9/x ignites its engine as soon the pilot give the fire/release command.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 02:48
by Dragon029
The new Block II variant adds a redesigned fuze and a digital ignition safety device that enhances ground handling and in-flight safety.

While those hint towards what's needed, these improvements don't indicate that the motor can be ignited after leaving the aircraft.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 19:38
by krorvik
steve2267 wrote:Another something (AMRAAM or Sidewinder) on the other door would most probably become a stores separation issue for anything carried where the JDAM is mounted in the above photo.


Anything besides another AMRAAM - release the outer one first.

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 19:40
by tomcattech
alloycowboy wrote:Also thinking out loud, if you got yourself in knife fight in a phone booth in an F-35 you did some thing seriously wrong.


Agreed, yet the battle plan sometimes does not survive contact with the enemy.

Just because it shouldn't happen doesn't mean that the aircraft (and its weapons) shouldn't be extremely capable in those high pucker factor (where the heck did that guy come from?) moments.

Great thread folks...

Re: Let’s Do More Shots [3by3]

Unread postPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 00:11
by count_to_10
tomcattech wrote:
If AIM-9X will have that capability I agree... however it makes one wonder the challenges a "dropped" weapon would face in a high G \ high alpha \ knife in a phone booth situation as compared to the standard "bottle rocket" off the rails send off.

There could be no real challenges at all... just thinking out loud.

That depends on what angle of attack the platform is pulling at release, and whether the missile sees more gs at that speed and alpha than the platform does. If it does, it risks sliding right back into the fighter that launched it.
Anyone got a feel for that?