The GAU-22/A thread

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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marsavian

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Unread post14 Sep 2018, 10:03

steve2267 wrote:
forbin wrote:Many pics in this configuration with 2 AIM-9X can be considered stealth as it ?


If you are asking whether the F-35 retains its VLO characteristics when carrying two AIM-9X, I think the general consensus around here is that external AIM-9X carriage degrades VLO by some amount, but by how much, no one knows, and those that know aren't saying. Some have said the F-35 is "still stealthy", or "must still be stealthy or else XYX..." but no one knows for sure, and no numbers have been thrown around, let alone quoted.

forbin wrote:The gun had a problem internal not or less in pod fired too on the side fixed now ?


Is English your native language? I don't ask this to be rude, but I do not understand this question at all.


The frontal RCS probably goes up to the 0.001-0.01 sq m range which is still better than the Su-57 and probably in the J-20 zone. The point is they went to the trouble of purposely designing small canted low RCS pylons so it would not be high. So it's still stealthy to everything else and that's even before jamming is used if ever detected. Discussed further here ...

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27356
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steve2267

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Unread post24 Sep 2018, 17:49

Looks like the flying Leathernecks like their guns... took them on their float aboard the Essex to the ME:

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Jets Involved In First Operational Deployment Near the Horn of Africa Flying With External Gun Pod
by David Cenciotti Sep 21 2018

Photos show Marines F-35B aircraft carrying the external gun pod during exercise off the coast of Djibouti.

For the last two weeks, U.S. Marine Corps F-35Bs assigned to the Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211 “Wake Island Avengers”, deployed with the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, have undertaken the type’s first operational deployment in international waters off the coast of Djibouti.

Beginning on Sept. 8, the aircraft have taken part in a Theater Amphiobious Combat Rehearsal (TACR) operating from the flight deck of Wasp-class amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2), deployed to the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility near Horn of Africa along with the rest of the Essex Amphibious Ready Group, that includes the San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock USS Anchorage (LPD 23) and Whidbey Island-class amphibious dock landing ship USS Rushmore (LSD 47).

The F-35B were involved in CAS (Close Air Support) missions, supporting Marines on the ground during drills in the military ranges in Djibouti that, according to USNI News, involved Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 166 (Reinforced)’s complement of CH-53E Super Stallion heavy-lift helicopters, MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, UH-1 Huey utility helicopters and AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters

... [more blah blah blah at the jump]

https://theaviationist.com/2018/09/21/u-s-marine-corps-f-35b-jets-involved-in-first-operational-deployment-near-the-horn-of-africa-flying-with-external-gun-pod/


A couple of notes...
  • Appears to be positive incidence on the tail slabs, so the tails appear to be generating lift
  • Why are the gunpods painted white? I would think you'd want a grey to match the aircraft?
  • Looks like they got some shootin' in -- second photo appears to show discoloration consistent with cannon firing

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Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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element1loop

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Unread post24 Sep 2018, 18:50

There's some blue-biasing and brightness in the pretty images that's washing-out the grey color of the pod. It's since been marketed as a multi-mission pod. Just a mock-up but you get the idea, multiple role options.

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https://www.terma.com/press/news-2012/f ... n-display/
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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marsavian

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Unread post24 Sep 2018, 19:22

https://theaviationist.com/2018/09/21/u ... l-gun-pod/

The new General Dynamics GAU-22 25mm gun pod uses a unique four-barrel configuration that was developed from the highly successful five-barrel, 25mm GAU-12/U gun also built by General Dynamics. Noteworthy, although it was designed with LO (Low Observability) characteristics, the external pod degrades the F-35’s radar cross section making the 5th generation aircraft more visibile to radars. Still, this should be acceptable (as it is for the non-stealthy AV-8B Harrier jets they will replace) for the scenarios where the U.S. Marine Corps F-35Bs will be called to carry out CAS missions (read here about the so-called “third day of war” configuration).


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Unread post24 Sep 2018, 21:51

The first fotie has the Bee formating on photie taker so the control surfaces could be everywhichwaybutloose temporarily. I'm guessing incorrect film/digital camera setting/maybe iFone? for 'high in the air' BRIGHT SUNLIGHT photos or rongfilter was used to mess up the colour space but whatever. Second photo is perhaps more towards a correct colour but BRIGHT.

Also the photo is taken thru the filter of the tanker window covering which does not help - amateurish stuff really. :mrgreen:
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F-35BgunPodMEsep2018x.jpg
F-35BgunPodMEsep2018.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post25 Sep 2018, 00:15

spazsinbad wrote:The first fotie has the Bee formating on photie taker so the control surfaces could be everywhichwaybutloose temporarily.


Formation flying not withstanding... at this lower airspeed, am guessing that the flaperons may be used more for roll control than the slabs? But I considered both photographs, and they both seemed to suggest positive incidence for the stabs. Just more "evidence" (?) of the unstable static characteristics of the design and that by having all aero surface generating lift, drag is minimized. FWIW.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post25 Sep 2018, 01:18

F-35B GUN TEST Complete @ NAS Patuxent River May 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msXQAXNbvU

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steve2267

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Unread post25 Sep 2018, 01:59

The gunpods in that video and still frame posted by spaz sure seem to be much closer to the color of the F-35B than the ones I posted from the aviationist up above.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post25 Sep 2018, 02:15

Not sure why this is important however I don't reckon the GUN POD is white in colour, meanwhile another WALLOP set up:

https://lexleader.net/wp-content/upload ... 10x420.jpg from:

https://lexleader.net/runway-project-mo ... or-summer/
&
THEN A C BABY:
"F-35C flies for the first time with 10 weapons plus gun pod. 4x external GBU-12, 2x internal GBU-32, 2x internal AMRAAM, 2x external Sidewinder 9X." http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_5170.jpg

Then another B Bubba:
"PATUXENT RIVER, Md. – On June 14, F-35B Joint Strike Fighter test aircraft BF-2 completed the first test flight for the short takeoff and vertical landing variant with an asymmetric weapons load. Cmdr. Eric Buus flew BF-2 with an AIM-9X Sidewinder inert missile on the starboard pylon, a centerline 25 mm gun pod, and a GBU-32 and AIM-120 in the starboard weapon bay...." https://www.flickr.com/photos/marine_corps/7419480466 for https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5275/741 ... 32_o_d.jpg (3.3Mb)
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F-35CtestUnderGunPodBombs.jpg
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steve2267

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Unread post16 Nov 2018, 02:00

Found this cutaway photograph illustrating the Nammo APEX PGU-47/U 25mm round on Twitter:

PGU-47  Nammo Apex round cutaway.jpg


Here is an illustration of the APEX projectile from p.7 of https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovclou ... 9Sande.pdf

25mm PGU-47U APEX Projectile Design.PNG
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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steve2267

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Unread post16 Nov 2018, 02:18

At 6 sec and 26 sec of this video of the F-35's strafing practice this past August in Utah, the bursts are incredibly short. It would be interesting to know how few rounds were expended in these bursts and if this is an example of the "round counting" or "round setting" ability in the F-35 gun system. (But that would mean defense aerospace journalists actually figuring out and asking some interesting questions.)

Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post16 Nov 2018, 03:04

Per Request 4 Page Extract attached from NAMMO for AMMO: https://www.nammo.com/globalassets/pdfs ... screen.pdf (5.2Mb) APEX LIVE FIRE TESTING AND EVALUATION BullyTin 2017 EVA K. FRIIS, APEX PROGRAM DIRECTOR, EXPLAINS THE SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS MADE BY THE 25 MM APEX AMMUNITION, AND WHAT LIES AHEAD FOR 2017
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F-35 APEX TEST nammo-bulletin-2017_aw_screen pp4.pdf
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Dragon029

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Unread post16 Nov 2018, 12:18

steve2267 wrote:At 6 sec and 26 sec of this video of the F-35's strafing practice this past August in Utah, the bursts are incredibly short. It would be interesting to know how few rounds were expended in these bursts and if this is an example of the "round counting" or "round setting" ability in the F-35 gun system. (But that would mean defense aerospace journalists actually figuring out and asking some interesting questions.)


12 rounds based on the audio:

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steve2267

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Unread post16 Nov 2018, 14:38

This Nammo APEX ammunition impresses me the more I learn of it. I know the US has developed their own rounds via ATK (now part of Northrop Grumman), but I wish the US had simply contracted with Nammo.

From the article found here https://www.defence24.com/dezamet-suppo ... 5-analysis, the following image I presume to be of 25mm APEX penetration test against an angled piece of armor. While previously posted PDFs from Nammo presentations better illustrate the armor penetration capabilities of the PGU-47/U from a technical perspective, this image is very telling, I think (lots of hot fragments):

Nammo_25mm_APEX_45deg_penetration_test.png


While I am not saying the GAU-22/A is a tank killer, this depiction of modern MBT armor thicknesses suggests that ALL MBT's have weaknesses somewhere (20-30mm RHA) that an aircraft should be able to exploit, short of the tank being dug in an all sides under a concrete parking structure or shelter. (Still, for an MBT, Spear or SDB II would be a much better choice.)

Leopard-2A4-LOSy.jpg
Image found here: http://btvt.narod.ru/raznoe/leopard2/Leopard-2A4-LOSy.jpg
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post17 Nov 2018, 05:23

steve2267 wrote:At 6 sec and 26 sec of this video of the F-35's strafing practice this past August in Utah, the bursts are incredibly short. It would be interesting to know how few rounds were expended in these bursts and if this is an example of the "round counting" or "round setting" ability in the F-35 gun system. (But that would mean defense aerospace journalists actually figuring out and asking some interesting questions.)


The burst length is selectable. The pilot isn't "free gunning."
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