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Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 14:37
by ricnunes
count_to_10 wrote:I thought the JAGM was now just called Hellfire II.


No, I don't think it is.

The Hellfire II is the second generation Hellfire which came up in the 1990's which includes many variants whose traditionally the "most popular ones" are (at least in the "Anti-Tank" role) the AGM-114K Laser Guided Hellfire II and the AGM-114L Radar Guided Hellfire II (the -L stands for Longbow which is the name of the Apache's Radar).
As opposed the "Hellfire I" or simply Hellfire represents the very first generation of Hellfire missiles which came up in the early 1980's which included for example the AGM-114A.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 21:26
by wrightwing
Corsair1963 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the APKWS is integrated, too. Both of these systems will provide a lot of flexibility in missions, where high precision/low collateral damage, is needed.



As I've stated in the past. I am curious if they could fit a couple APKWS tubes in either the inner or outer Weapon Bay Doors of the F-35??? While, four 2.75 rockets doesn't sound like much. The new APKWS are very accurate and cheap. These could be carried regardless of the mission. As they have no impact on the internal or external weapons load. Plus, their small size and weight would have virtually no impact on performance.


Just for example let's say a flight of four F-35A's where on a CAP Mission. (Air to Air) Yet, an urgent call came in. That a Special Forces Team was spotted and surrounded by a company of enemy troops. In this case even four F-35's on a purely Air Superiority Mission. Would have 16 precision-guided rockets to bring to the fight. In addition the 25mm Cannon.....As a matter of fact this has happen a number of times in the fight against terrorism. (Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria)

Here's something similar from an F-102....

f102 falcon missile 1.jpg


ROCKET.png


apkws-unit.jpg

No way to do that without changing the outer mold line, and no need for stealthy carriage of the APKWS. If they were going to integrate a weapon into the bay doors, it'd be MSDM. For CAS, your much better off with the 19rd launchers.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 04:44
by squirrelshoes
I agree with wrightwing, if they absolutely had to put APKWS on F-35 for CAS they'd just take the easiest/cheapest/safest solution and qualify it for pods under the wings. It wouldn't make sense to spend the money and effort to modify F-35 bay doors to carry just a few rockets.

I wonder if they could rig it to carry that mini-SDB glide weapon that SOCOM has become enamored with (I forget the name) it's got a bigger punch than Hellfire but is only about 3 1/2 feet long and much smaller width than SDB. That would give 'em a APKWS magazine dept but could use flying clean and have a bigger pop per round.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 05:47
by steve2267
squirrelshoes wrote:I wonder if they could rig it to carry that mini-SDB glide weapon that SOCOM has become enamored with (I forget the name) it's got a bigger punch than Hellfire but is only about 3 1/2 feet long and much smaller width than SDB. That would give 'em a APKWS magazine dept but could use flying clean and have a bigger pop per round.


I found the GBU-44/B Viper Strike glide weapon.

Then there is the AGM-176 Griffin missile (about 38lbs or so with a 13lb warhead). Also here: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/griffin-missile.

Lastly, I found GBU-69/B Small Glide Munition, which apparently SOCOM really likes.

https://www.janes.com/article/78677/ussocom-boosts-gbu-69-b-sgm-stocks

Image

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 09 Mar 2019, 10:36
by squirrelshoes
Yeah GBU-69 was the one I was referring to, it's got a ball-buster of a warhead (36 lbs) for something it's size since glide weapon like SDB. They detail dimensions here: https://www.dynetics.com/_files/strike- ... %20SGM.pdf
L: 42"
W: 4.5"

I wonder how many of those they could fit in an F-35 bay?

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 10 Mar 2019, 20:43
by knowan
squirrelshoes wrote:Yeah GBU-69 was the one I was referring to, it's got a ball-buster of a warhead (36 lbs) for something it's size since glide weapon like SDB. They detail dimensions here: https://www.dynetics.com/_files/strike- ... %20SGM.pdf
L: 42"
W: 4.5"

I wonder how many of those they could fit in an F-35 bay?


Given the F-35 can hold 4 GBU-39 per bay, with each GBU-39 being 70.8" long by 7.5" wide, the 2 x 2 stack of GBU-39s would be at least 141.6" long by 15" wide.

That gives enough space for a 3 x 3 stack of GBU-69s with space to spare, so a total of 9 bombs per bay.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 02:36
by count_to_10
steve2267 wrote:
squirrelshoes wrote:I wonder if they could rig it to carry that mini-SDB glide weapon that SOCOM has become enamored with (I forget the name) it's got a bigger punch than Hellfire but is only about 3 1/2 feet long and much smaller width than SDB. That would give 'em a APKWS magazine dept but could use flying clean and have a bigger pop per round.


I found the GBU-44/B Viper Strike glide weapon.

Then there is the AGM-176 Griffin missile (about 38lbs or so with a 13lb warhead). Also here: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/griffin-missile.

Lastly, I found GBU-69/B Small Glide Munition, which apparently SOCOM really likes.

https://www.janes.com/article/78677/ussocom-boosts-gbu-69-b-sgm-stocks

Image

I wouldn’t be surprised if you could fit 12 of those in each bay,.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 18:27
by knowan
count_to_10 wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if you could fit 12 of those in each bay,.


If they could work out some way to stack them vertically on top of each other, I wouldn't be surprised if they could fit 18 per bay.

Re: Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 19:40
by marauder2048
If anything, I would expect a version of AGM-176 to be integrated since there is an aft-eject
version. GBU-69 is interesting since it re-uses elements of front-end from APKWS.

In a very loose sense, it's a subset of the Army's modular missile technology where they
want to be able to have common payload, seeker, guidance sections that are on both a
FFAR and a glide bomb and then the only difference is the actuator section.