Will JAGM be intergrated with F-35?

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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jessmo111

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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 02:03

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/06/jagm ... rone-test/

I couldn't help but notice that the missile used to be scheduled for Super Hornet, and is capable of being fired from the air. Can anyone explain why the fast jet requirements where dropped?
Currently there is no modern rocket powered missile scheduled for F-35. Anyone have insight?
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 02:13

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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 02:21

Why would not this original post be in the armament section of this forum?:
F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics
F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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jessmo111

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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 04:20

spazsinbad wrote:Why would not this original post be in the armament section of this forum?:
F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics
F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.


@spud will the USN, USAF, and marines adopt brimestone?
@spaz I posted it in armaments did they move it?
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 04:25

you must have misTOOKen the section when posting = wrong trousers.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 04:26

jessmo111 wrote:@ will the USN, USAF, and marines adopt brimestone?

They can if they want to.

Fast jet JAGM is not out of the picture yet.

After enough JCM/JAGM missile program cancellations and resurrections to make even Lazarus give up, the US Army looked at its Hellfire stocks, and realized that they’d need something new anyway. In response, they decided to try squaring this circle using an incremental approach, one focused on replacing the most at-risk AGM-114L radar-guided missiles first.

Initial. The JAGM Continued Technology Development phase now aims to create dual-mode laser/radar guidance sections that can equip existing Hellfire II missiles. Essentially, JAGM Increment 1 would create a Hellfire III missile with dual-mode guidance, matched to the AGM-114R’s multi-role warhead and rocket. Initial Army platforms would include the AH-64E Apache attack helicopter, and MQ-1C Gray Eagle UAV. The USMC’s initial platforms will be the AH-1Z Viper attack helicopter and KC-130J Harvest Hawk armed tanker/ transport, for integration by FY 2019.

JAGM Increment 2. Intends to increase the maximum range to 12 km, and move to the full tri-mode seeker with semi-active laser, Imaging Infrared (IIR), and millimeter wave radar guidance modes. If Raytheon bids, they’d be offering the tri-mode seeker in Increment 1 as well.

JAGM Increment 3. This is the original JAGM concept, more or less. It would have a maximum range of 16 km that would likely force a new rocket motor, alongside other redesigns for carriage and launch from helicopters or fast jets. Initial fixed-wing platforms would include the USMC’s AV-8B Harrier and B Lightning II STOVL fighters, but there’s no set schedule. The earliest integration slot involves Block 4 fighters, whose software isn’t likely to be ready before 2021-2023.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/joi ... tten-0229/

The split up of JAGM into 3 increments has been in the works for quite a while. I've seen congressional testemony dated April 2014 talking about it.

Here is another overview of the original JAGM requirement and how the Increments are laid out. Sorry, no timeline on Inc2&3.

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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 04:56

I agree. You must also take into consideration that a hell fire/ brimestone class weapon has less explosive than the 250lb sdb. And you can carry alot more.
In theory a F-35B should be able to carry 15+ in the internal bay, with a special rack. That number is from my neither regions, but the Hellfire and brimestone are in the 100 pounds class.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 15:07

jessmo111 wrote:I agree. You must also take into consideration that a hell fire/ brimestone class weapon has less explosive than the 250lb sdb. And you can carry alot more.
In theory a F-35B should be able to carry 15+ in the internal bay, with a special rack. That number is from my neither regions, but the Hellfire and brimestone are in the 100 pounds class.


It's volume limited not weight limited. You won't get 15 in there. Will carry same number as you could of SDB-2. If you don't know what you will run up against SDB makes more sense as it can do a tank just as well as it can a hardened bunker or aircraft shelter or bridge really.

The problem with Brimstone hs always been that it's a fairly specific anti-vehicle weapon. But in a low threat environment drone delivered Hellfires are much cheaper and just as effective. In a high threat environment I would rather use WCMD to deliver CBU-105 against armored formations. It can service more targets from further out. I get a lot more bang for the buck.

I think this is the reason fast jet carriage is so far down the priority list for JAGM. It isn't heavy enough to be a maverick replacement and other weapons in the arsenal can do the anti-armor trick better. It isn't quite the general purpose weapon SDB-2 will be. Ideally they would have it for plinking a single vehicle here and there. But I don't think anyone is that worked up about it.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 15:36

I thought the Navy?Marines had dropped out of JAGM and it's exclusively an Army program for launch from helos and drones?
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 15:45

popcorn wrote:I thought the Navy?Marines had dropped out of JAGM and it's exclusively an Army program for launch from helos and drones?


Increment 1 certainly is. But keep in mind it deploys on Marine AH-1's. I believe they did do the work to make the airframe capable of being used from a higher speed jet. It's just a question of if anyone wants to pay for integration.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 16:40

jessmo111 wrote:I agree. You must also take into consideration that a hell fire/ brimestone class weapon has less explosive than the 250lb sdb. And you can carry alot more.
In theory a F-35B should be able to carry 15+ in the internal bay, with a special rack. That number is from my neither regions, but the Hellfire and brimestone are in the 100 pounds class.

JAGM is rail launched so can't be fired from the bays. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 16:49

Rail-launched weapons can always be modified; Brimstone is a rail-launched weapon, but will have internal carriage on the F-35.
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zerion

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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 17:17

Dragon029 wrote:Rail-launched weapons can always be modified; Brimstone is a rail-launched weapon, but will have internal carriage on the F-35.

As always. But if you have SDB why spend the the $$?
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 23:02

bigjku wrote:
It's volume limited not weight limited. You won't get 15 in there. Will carry same number as you could of SDB-2. If you don't know what you will run up against SDB makes more sense as it can do a tank just as well as it can a hardened bunker or aircraft shelter or bridge really.

The problem with Brimstone hs always been that it's a fairly specific anti-vehicle weapon. But in a low threat environment drone delivered Hellfires are much cheaper and just as effective. In a high threat environment I would rather use WCMD to deliver CBU-105 against armored formations. It can service more targets from further out. I get a lot more bang for the buck.

I think this is the reason fast jet carriage is so far down the priority list for JAGM. It isn't heavy enough to be a maverick replacement and other weapons in the arsenal can do the anti-armor trick better. It isn't quite the general purpose weapon SDB-2 will be. Ideally they would have it for plinking a single vehicle here and there. But I don't think anyone is that worked up about it.

Actually, while the SDB-1 is a penetrating weapon, the SDB-2 is also an anti-vehicle weapon with a shape-charge warhead, and no ability to penetrate bunkers. I'm not even sure you could get a SDB-2 through a brick wall without breaking it before it can detonate.
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Unread post07 Jun 2016, 23:13

SDB-2 has a superior sensor suite over JAGM. It's IIR capability will be quite useful in a battlespace awash with jamming.
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