F-35 begins Raytheon JSOW qualification flights

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ricnunes

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Unread post18 Nov 2019, 16:58

First of all thanks to steve and wrightwing for your feedback.

Of particular interest is wrightwing's link (which again, I thank) and from where I'll quote the following paragraph:

The JSM is based on Naval Strike Missile (NSM) and was developed in partnership with Raytheon. The JSM has a top range of roughly 350 miles and a low altitude penetration range of about half that. It carries a 500lb warhead and is guided by a navigation suite that includes GPS, INS, and terrain mapping—the latter of which will help out greatly in GPS denied environments.


Ok, from what I read above, the JSM has the chance to by flown towards the target in either a high-altitude or low-altitude profiles. In high-altitude profiles it even have longer range (by 50 nautical miles) compared to the Extended-Range JSOW and on top of that it has the possibility to fly in a low-altitude which of course has a much shorter range but with other tactical advantages.
Apparently it also has more guidance modes (GPS for example).
The warhead is still much smaller but the other advantages may offset this in some/many cases.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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sferrin

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Unread post18 Nov 2019, 18:24

Warhead size is more like 270-ish. NOT 500 lbs.
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wrightwing

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Unread post18 Nov 2019, 18:35

ricnunes wrote:First of all thanks to steve and wrightwing for your feedback.

Of particular interest is wrightwing's link (which again, I thank) and from where I'll quote the following paragraph:

The JSM is based on Naval Strike Missile (NSM) and was developed in partnership with Raytheon. The JSM has a top range of roughly 350 miles and a low altitude penetration range of about half that. It carries a 500lb warhead and is guided by a navigation suite that includes GPS, INS, and terrain mapping—the latter of which will help out greatly in GPS denied environments.


Ok, from what I read above, the JSM has the chance to by flown towards the target in either a high-altitude or low-altitude profiles. In high-altitude profiles it even have longer range (by 50 nautical miles) compared to the Extended-Range JSOW and on top of that it has the possibility to fly in a low-altitude which of course has a much shorter range but with other tactical advantages.
Apparently it also has more guidance modes (GPS for example).
The warhead is still much smaller but the other advantages may offset this in some/many cases.


The JSOW-ER Is still a vital weapon, though. I'm guessing from a cost standpoint, they'll have a lower price point which allows for larger inventories. They'll compliment the JSMs capabilities nicely.
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ricnunes

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Unread post18 Nov 2019, 23:48

wrightwing wrote:The JSOW-ER Is still a vital weapon, though. I'm guessing from a cost standpoint, they'll have a lower price point which allows for larger inventories. They'll compliment the JSMs capabilities nicely.


Yes, absolutely.
Lower price and a much bigger/powerful warhead are indeed major pluses for the JSOW-ER.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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squirrelshoes

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Unread post21 Nov 2019, 21:04

I know it has it's supporters in these parts but I'd be really surprised if any branch of US Military bought JSM, especially given the significant bump in production numbers for LRASM to where it's no longer something that can be painted as stopgap or interim. It's probably going to be LRASM, JSOW, AARGM-ER, and SDB2 as the options for standoff weaponry of USN/USMC in the 2020s.
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Unread post22 Nov 2019, 01:03

squirrelshoes wrote:I know it has it's supporters in these parts but I'd be really surprised if any branch of US Military bought JSM, especially given the significant bump in production numbers for LRASM to where it's no longer something that can be painted as stopgap or interim. It's probably going to be LRASM, JSOW, AARGM-ER, and SDB2 as the options for standoff weaponry of USN/USMC in the 2020s.


I could see the Navy buying the JSM although not in huge numbers. Not so much for the F-35C since JSOW also offers internal carriage, but for the MH-60R. Much like the Penguin, It would allow standoff ASCM capability against short ranged missile armed FAC/Corvettes/etc as well as providing limited strike capability. All in a missile that is about the same weight as the MK54 torpedo. It can also be fitted to a tactical length MK41 launcher, something you can't do with a LRASM, so you could add ASCM capability without using cannisters.
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Dragon029

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 03:38

https://www.janes.com/article/95608/csb ... on-on-f-35

JSOW C-1 Network Enabled Weapon (NEW) is being integrated 2 years earlier than planned.

The article doesn't say when it's being integrated exactly, but last year at Tailhook a slide indicated "JSOW C-1" was being integrated in 2022 - assuming "C-1 NEW" isn't any different to "C-1", then that would indicate that the F-35C will be getting it some time this year.

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wolfpak

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Unread post29 Apr 2020, 21:30

If the USAF would equip their F-35A's with the JSOW C-1 and train up a number of pilots in each squadron it would certainly help the Navy in the Pacific. F-35's sitting on island airstrips across the Pacific would pose a great challenge to any aggressor seeking to dominate the Pacific with their warships. Is the Navy in the UAI program?
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bring_it_on

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Unread post29 Apr 2020, 22:21

wolfpak wrote:If the USAF would equip their F-35A's with the JSOW C-1 and train up a number of pilots in each squadron it would certainly help the Navy in the Pacific. F-35's sitting on island airstrips across the Pacific would pose a great challenge to any aggressor seeking to dominate the Pacific with their warships. Is the Navy in the UAI program?


Or the USAF could always buy a small quantity of the JSM if they want a multi-mission medium-long range cruise missile. I wonder what the time to target looks like from say 80 miles when launching a JSM compared to a glide munition. Of course, something like a JSM can sea skim and has other advantages. I'd think that the missile can execute the entire JSOW-C max range while flying at low altitudes.
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marauder2048

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Unread post29 Apr 2020, 22:54

bring_it_on wrote:
wolfpak wrote:If the USAF would equip their F-35A's with the JSOW C-1 and train up a number of pilots in each squadron it would certainly help the Navy in the Pacific. F-35's sitting on island airstrips across the Pacific would pose a great challenge to any aggressor seeking to dominate the Pacific with their warships. Is the Navy in the UAI program?


Or the USAF could always buy a small quantity of the JSM if they want a multi-mission medium-long range cruise missile. I wonder what the time to target looks like from say 80 miles when launching a JSM compared to a glide munition. Of course, something like a JSM can sea skim and has other advantages. I'd think that the missile can execute the entire JSOW-C max range while flying at low altitudes.


I would think the non-recurring costs for such a small buy would make JSOW-ER more attractive.
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bring_it_on

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Unread post30 Apr 2020, 02:37

marauder2048 wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:
wolfpak wrote:If the USAF would equip their F-35A's with the JSOW C-1 and train up a number of pilots in each squadron it would certainly help the Navy in the Pacific. F-35's sitting on island airstrips across the Pacific would pose a great challenge to any aggressor seeking to dominate the Pacific with their warships. Is the Navy in the UAI program?


Or the USAF could always buy a small quantity of the JSM if they want a multi-mission medium-long range cruise missile. I wonder what the time to target looks like from say 80 miles when launching a JSM compared to a glide munition. Of course, something like a JSM can sea skim and has other advantages. I'd think that the missile can execute the entire JSOW-C max range while flying at low altitudes.


I would think the non-recurring costs for such a small buy would make JSOW-ER more attractive.


Yes the JSOW-ER would also be way more attractive than a glide munition based Anti-Ship capability (if you use a glide munition I'd much rather the add a maritime capability and have F-35's lob half a dozen SDB II's at a surface vessel). It would be interesting to compare those two weapons in terms of their ability to fly low altitude profiles, execute terminal maneuvers etc. I'd imagine the JSM would be similar to the NSM in that regard. AARGM-ER / SiAW would also have some capability for this role.
Last edited by bring_it_on on 30 Apr 2020, 04:06, edited 1 time in total.
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wrightwing

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Unread post30 Apr 2020, 03:13

bring_it_on wrote:
wolfpak wrote:If the USAF would equip their F-35A's with the JSOW C-1 and train up a number of pilots in each squadron it would certainly help the Navy in the Pacific. F-35's sitting on island airstrips across the Pacific would pose a great challenge to any aggressor seeking to dominate the Pacific with their warships. Is the Navy in the UAI program?


Or the USAF could always buy a small quantity of the JSM if they want a multi-mission medium-long range cruise missile. I wonder what the time to target looks like from say 80 miles when launching a JSM compared to a glide munition. Of course, something like a JSM can sea skim and has other advantages. I'd think that the missile can execute the entire JSOW-C max range while flying at low altitudes.

If they're using JSM, they could launch from 150+.
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