British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 00:24
by gabriele
Richard Scott, London - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets
18 January 2016
Key Points

The integration of Storm Shadow on the F-35B as part of UK follow-on development has been dropped
The UK is looking to integrate the Meteor BVR air-to-air missile and the SPEAR Cap 3 stand-off precision guided weapon as part of Block 4

The United Kingdom (UK) Ministry of Defence (MoD) has abandoned plans to integrate the MBDA Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile on the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), and is instead looking at the far future integration of a new long-range deep-strike weapon projected under the still embryonic Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Cap 5 programme.


http://www.janes.com/article/57304/stor ... ation-plan

Very interesting. I think SPEAR 5 might be the same as the "Future Cruise and Anti-Ship Weapon" that UK and France are beginning to flesh out with a new round of studies to be launched this year. Anyone has access to the full Jane's article to see if my guess is on the mark, and to see the rest?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 00:36
by bigjku
Storm Shadow is a dead end because there aren't enough orders to keep production running. The next missile will be still born. European defense isn't spending enough money to afford it. They will buy whatever the US creates unless something drastic changes between now and then.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 06:27
by Corsair1963
Clearly, the F-35 is going to have the largest selections of weapons ever available to a Modern Fighter. :D

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 21:45
by gabriele
The recently announced joint Japan-UK programme to develop a new air-to-air missile will be supported by a successfully conducted project to integrate Japanese seeker technologies into MBDA's Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), the Ministry of Defense (MoD) in Tokyo has revealed to IHS Jane's .

The project to integrate the Japanese technologies, developed by Mitsubishi Electric, into the Meteor BVRAAM was agreed in July 2014. The project centred on adapting and developing the Japanese technologies in order to enhance the accuracy and performance of the missile.

A spokesman from the Japanese MoD confirmed on 14 January that, based on this collaborative effort, Japan and the United Kingdom will now implement a "technological feasibility programme" to develop a Joint New Air-to-Air Missile (JNAAM) by "combining the UK's missile-related technologies and Japanese seeker technologies".


http://www.janes.com/article/57196/japa ... ct-with-uk


Meteor fitted with japanese AESA seeker (and possibly with smaller wings), with an eye on the F-35.
If someone has access to the whole piece...

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 22:33
by Dragon029
The recently announced joint Japan-UK programme to develop a new air-to-air missile will be supported by a successfully conducted project to integrate Japanese seeker technologies into MBDA's Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), the Ministry of Defense (MoD) in Tokyo has revealed to IHS Jane's.

The project to integrate the Japanese technologies, developed by Mitsubishi Electric, into the Meteor BVRAAM was agreed in July 2014. The project centred on adapting and developing the Japanese technologies in order to enhance the accuracy and performance of the missile.

A spokesman from the Japanese MoD confirmed on 14 January that, based on this collaborative effort, Japan and the United Kingdom will now implement a "technological feasibility programme" to develop a Joint New Air-to-Air Missile (JNAAM) by "combining the UK's missile-related technologies and Japanese seeker technologies".

The spokesman said that the joint project undertaken by Japan and the United Kingdom since July 2014 has "analysed the capability perspectives of combining the Meteor with Japanese active radio-wave seeker technologies. As a result, it was confirmed that a JNAAM equipped with the Japanese seeker technologies is technologically feasible".

The spokesman was speaking one week after UK defence secretary Michael Fallon visited Tokyo to discuss the terms of bilateral defence collaboration with his counterpart from Japan Gen Nakatani. Following meetings between the two officials, a joint statement was issued outlining co-operation on a new missile programme, although details were not immediately disclosed.

"Following the success of the first round of talks on the co-operative research project on the feasibility of a Joint New Air-to-Air Missile, the ministers confirmed discussions would move to the second stage," the statement said. This second stage, now confirmed by the Japanese MoD, will feature the "technological feasibility programme" before moving to a potential developmental stage.

ANALYSIS
Japan's interest in the Meteor programme stems from the missile systems' expected integration into the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft, which both Japan and the United Kingdom are procuring.

Underscoring belief in Tokyo that Japanese technologies are a suitable complement for the system, the project to integrate Mitsubishi Electric into the programme was the first to be approved by Japan following the lifting of the country's self-imposed military export ban in April 2014.

This ban prohibited Japanese companies from entering international collaboration programmes such as the Meteor project, and in this sense the integration of the Japanese technologies into the programme will be positively regarded in Tokyo.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 22:46
by gabriele
Thanks. Do you have access to the earlier article too?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 23:03
by Dragon029
Yep and phew is it a big one (edited with some extra key points bolded):

Key Points
-The integration of Storm Shadow on the F-35B as part of UK follow-on development has been dropped
-The UK is looking to integrate the Meteor BVR air-to-air missile and the SPEAR Cap 3 stand-off precision guided weapon as part of Block 4


The United Kingdom (UK) Ministry of Defence (MoD) has abandoned plans to integrate the MBDA Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile on the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), and is instead looking at the far future integration of a new long-range deep-strike weapon projected under the still embryonic Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Cap 5 programme.

Officials have also disclosed that while the United Kingdom still plans to integrate the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile and the projected SPEAR Cap 3 precision stand-off air-to-surface weapon on the F-35B, there is as yet no concrete programme agreed with the JSF Program Office.

As the sole Level 1 collaborative partner for the JSF programme's System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase, the United Kingdom has negotiated the integration of the Raytheon Paveway IV precision-guided bomb and MBDA Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM) as part of the Block 3 release. Paveway IV and ASRAAM, together with the Raytheon AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM), constitute the UK's 'threshold' weapons fit.

Speaking at the Royal Aeronautical Society's (RAeS's) 'Delivering Capability: A Balance Between Weapon and Platform' conference in November 2015, Iain Barker, part of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory's (Dstl's) weapons integration team, said that the UK's status as Level 1 partner in the JSF programme had "allowed us to influence the F-35 design to get UK weapons on board". He added, "All were legacy weapons of known size and shape, allowing the [internal weapons] bay to be designed around the weapon shapes."

The original plan was for all three threshold weapons to be qualified for internal carriage on the F-35B. However, the 2010 decision to switch to the F-35C variant - subsequently reversed in 2012 - had repercussions for this plan according to Barker. "The two variants have different internal bays, there is no commonality," he explained. "So we had to start from scratch again on the B ... during this [period] we lost internal ASRAAM as a capability we would field." Accordingly, ASRAAM will now only be qualified as an external store.

"SDD weapon integration has had its challenges," added Barker. "Test envelope availability; differences in configuration approach; political direction; weapon updates; and programme concurrency.

"The UK has its own weapons, and DOSG [Defence Ordnance Safety Group] to work with. That required a redesign of how the UK would do flight test to get the appropriate data to support certification."

Internal integration of Paveway IV has encountered some challenges. "The battery firing device lanyard was found to be incompatible with the [weapon] rack," said Barker. "It was an easy fix, but would have to be fitted across all racks, so the decision was taken instead to modify the weapon lanyard."

Initial F-35B handling trials carrying ASRAAM and Paveway IV mass/shape models on external hardpoints began in late 2014. Paveway IV weapon separation testing began in June 2015 with the release of two inert weapons from the internal weapons bay of aircraft BF-03.

Under current plans, the F-35B is scheduled to achieve initial operating capability (IOC) at the end of 2018 with the three threshold weapons. An MoD spokesperson confirmed to IHS Jane's that "integration of the UK's System Development Demonstration (SDD's) weapons is currently proceeding to plan and [they] are on track to be cleared to support UK F-35 Lightning II IOC in December 2018".

Beyond the IOC, the United Kingdom has been developing plans for follow-on development involving the integration of additional weapons to maximise the aircraft capability. Storm Shadow was a threshold weapon in the original JSF Joint Operational Requirements Document, with external weapon stations 3 and 9 designed to accept the 3,000 lb store. However, Barker told the RAeS conference that integration has now been dropped. "We will not certify Storm Shadow on F-35," he said, adding that the plan "is that the aircraft will get SPEAR Cap 5 as a future deep fire capability".

The SPEAR Cap 5 capability requirement is currently planned to be met by a nascent Future Cruise Anti-Ship Weapon studied by MBDA under a French/UK co-operation project. IOC is envisaged in the period 2030-35.

Asked to comment on the rationale for not proceeding with Storm Shadow integration, the MoD told IHS Jane's that there "was never any formal requirement for Storm Shadow to be integrated on the UK's F-35 aircraft".

Meteor and SPEAR Cap 3 both remain in the frame for follow-on integration as part of the F-35 Block 4 programme. A cropped-fin Meteor concept has been developed by MBDA to enable carriage inside the F-35 bay; a feasibility study has subsequently concluded that there are no significant issues to overcome with regard to integration.

"With Meteor, neither the weapon nor the platform were designed with each other in mind," Barker said. "We're having to clip the wings in order to fit into the bay, and make some minor bay modifications. We will still deliver the capability we require."

SPEAR Cap 3 is designed to meet a UK requirement for a new mini cruise missile able to attack mobile/relocatable targets at medium stand-off range. MBDA has matured the so-called 100B concept - a network-enabled turbojet-powered 100 kg class weapon sized for a quad loadout in the F-35B internal bay - as part of the UK's sovereign complex weapons pipeline.

While the US-developed GBU-53/B Small Diameter Bomb II has also been assessed in relation to the SPEAR Cap 3 requirement, the MoD is at this stage continuing to pursue the MBDA technical solution on the grounds that it is the only weapon option that fulfils all its key user requirements. The MoD now plans to fund MBDA for an extended Assessment Phase through to a SPEAR Cap 3 Main Gate decision planned for 2018.

"SPEAR Cap 3 is a weapon specifically designed for the F-35 platform," Barker said. "The F-35B is intended as the primary platform for this weapon."

The UK's aspiration is that weapons introduced under follow-on development should reach the front-line in the early-to-mid 2020s. However, Barker acknowledged to the RAeS audience that the programme timelines for follow-on weapon integration had yet to be finalised. "After SDD, we no longer have Level 1 status," he said. "It becomes all about aircraft offtake numbers. So we have to battle with all the other partner nations.

"The challenge for the UK will be to fit the UK weapons into that timeline to get what we need. The Block 4 programme is heavily dominated by the US customer, and it also requires modifications to the aircraft and the availability of the weapon. So Meteor will come first."

Barker added that the MoD is looking at what scope there is to drive down the cost and compress the schedule of follow-on integrations. "So we want to look at doing Meteor and SPEAR Cap 3 environmental testing together ideally to save on time and cost," he said.

The MoD told IHS Jane's in a statement,"Planning for F-35 Lightning II follow-on modernisation is currently being undertaken by the JSF Programme Office. It is intended that both Meteor and Spear Cap 3 integration will form part of this upgrade programme."

COMMENT
The decision not to proceed with Storm Shadow integration on the F-35B comes as the UK continues work to integrate Storm Shadow into the Royal Air Force's Typhoon FGR4 aircraft under the Phase 2 Enhancements (P2E) package. A first Storm Shadow launch from a Tornado was performed on a UK range in November 2015.

Integration of Storm Shadow into Typhoon under P2E is intended to lead to an IOC of August 2018, ensuring that the RAF's air-launched deep-strike capability is sustained after the retirement of the Tornado GR4 in 2019. However, the decision not to pursue integration of Storm Shadow on the F-35B means that the UK's Carrier Strike capability will be left devoid of a deep-strike weapon.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 23:15
by gabriele
Thank you so much. Very interesting indeed.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jan 2016, 23:42
by spazsinbad
SDBII requires bay mods so I guess all done together?
"...Meteor and SPEAR Cap 3 both remain in the frame for follow-on integration as part of the F-35 Block 4 programme. A cropped-fin Meteor concept has been developed by MBDA to enable carriage inside the F-35 bay; a feasibility study has subsequently concluded that there are no significant issues to overcome with regard to integration.

"With Meteor, neither the weapon nor the platform were designed with each other in mind," Barker said. "We're having to clip the wings in order to fit into the bay, and make some minor bay modifications. We will still deliver the capability we require."...

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Jan 2016, 00:43
by gabriele
I don't remember who it was, but an officer a while ago stated firmly that they are looking at making a list of bay mods and getting them all done together in Block IV.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Jan 2016, 01:51
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'gabriele' - here is the quote: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=28254&p=307324&hilit=accommodate#p307324
"...“If the weapons bay has to be redesigned to accommodate [new] weapons, we’ll only be redesigning it one time,” Bogdan told reporters..."

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2016, 06:28
by spazsinbad
UK Backs MBDA on Mini-Cruise Missile Requirement
18 Mar 2016 Andrew Chuter

"LONDON — Britain's Defence Ministry is expected to extend MBDA’s assessment phase contract on the SPEAR Capability 3 missile program, leaving no room for the moment for Raytheon Systems to secure a foothold in the requirement for it’s Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II), according to a source familiar with the program. No formal decision has been announced to continue solely with development of MBDA’s Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) missile development...

...Selective Precision Effects at Range Capability 3, better known as SPEAR Cap 3, is one of several weapons being developed for the British military under the SPEAR umbrella....

...SPEAR Cap 3 is set to be part of the offensive armament of British F-35s to be operated by the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy.

The standoff weapon is being designed to allow the F-35, and eventually maybe the RAF Typhoon, to attack a wide range of moving and stationary targets, day or night with a selective-effect warhead.

SPEAR Cap 3 is one of several weapons being developed for the British military under the SPEAR umbrella. SPEAR Cap 1 is a development of Raytheon’s Paveway IV precision-guided bomb, while Spear Cap 2 is an advanced version of MBDA’s Brimstone missile.

MBDA’s 2-meter long Spear Cap 3 weapon is a turbojet powered mini-cruise missile with a range beyond 100 km – beyond the range of many potentially hostile air defense systems .

It’s would be rival, the SDB II, is a winged unpowered bomb with a range in excess of 40 miles. The weapon has been purchased by the US military and is scheduled to be operational starting with the F-15 with other combat jets, including the F-35, to follow. Integration activities are already underway.

The National Audit Office, the Governments spending watchdog, effectively endorsed the MBDA program in its major projects report released late last year, saying that the SDB II fell short on a number of the key user requirements. There was a “clear operational analysis that supports the UK procurement of SPEAR Cap 3,” said the NAO.

Raytheon executives though have previously emphasized the cost-benefits of their weapon as well as it’s local production possibilities as reasons why the British should allow the weapon to compete.

Company executives have said components built in the UK could be part of the global supply chain for all SDB II’s. A purchase could save the British over £500 million compared with the rival MBDA weapon, they have previously said.

Last year Taylor Lawrence, the president of Raytheon Missile Systems, told Defense News in an interview at the Paris Air Show that the company was open to developing a powered version of the SDB II to meet the requirement if the British showed interest in it.

Under a UK government arrangement with MBDA and other local complex weapons suppliers crafted in 2006 competition was normally excluded for companies outside the arrangement .

The complex weapons policy is aimed at helping preserve local skills and technologies while also retaining operational sovereignty."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /81862964/

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 17:00
by spazsinbad
UK orders advanced ASRAAM weapons for F-35B
16 Aug 2016 Beth Stevenson

"MBDA has been awarded a £184 million ($238 million) contract for the provision of advanced short range air-to-air missiles (ASRAAMs) for the UK’s Lockheed Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighter.

The contract covers the purchase of a new variant of the weapon currently in operation with the Royal Air Force on its Panavia Tornado GR4s and Eurofighter Typhoons. Integration onto the F-35B will be covered under a separate contract, the Ministry of Defence says.

Announced on 16 August, the deal builds on a £300 million award to MBDA in September 2015 to support a Capability Sustainment Programme (CSP) for the development of the new variant of the weapon for the RAF’s Typhoons, and will add to the stockpile of a new common ASRAAM for the MoD. This will enter service on the Typhoon in 2018.

The F-35 is due to reach initial operational capability for land-based operations with the UK in December 2018, but the MoD plans to use the current ASRAAM missile on the Lightning II until 2022. The point at which the production lines will cross over from the older to the newer variant has yet to be determined.

Integration of the CSP version of the ASRAAM on the UK’s F-35s will come under the Block 4 software upgrade that the aircraft will undergo; it is currently in the 3i configuration, and will subsequently evolve to a 3F standard.

The first batch of the current ASRAAM variant was delivered to the USA in January, ahead of flight trials on board the F-35, supported by UK weapons integration lead BAE Systems.

The test examples were the first British-built missiles to be installed on the JSF, and are undergoing flight trials from NAS Patuxent River in Maryland and Edwards AFB in California. The RAF’s F-35B test and evaluation unit, 17 Sqn, is based at the latter location.

Initial tests were to include environmental data gathering, safe separation from the aircraft, weapon integration testing, firing trials and target engagement...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 5b-428544/

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 17:58
by spazsinbad
Britain Stockpiles New ASRAAM Missiles for the F-35
16 Aug 2016 Andrew Chuter

"LONDON — Britain is spending £184 million ($239 million) stockpiling a new version of the ASRAAM short range air-to-air missiles ahead of equipping the F-35B Lightning II combat jet with the weapon, the Ministry of Defence said Aug 16.

The Ministry of Defence said the new order would see F-35s operated by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy start to use an updated version of the missile beyond 2022.

The order for additional ASRAAM’s follows an announcement last September of a £300 million deal with missile maker MBDA to design and build an initial batch of updated weapons.

Typhoon and Tornado combat jets are already cleared to carry the current version of ASRAAM.

The updated variant of the missile is expected to enter service on the Typhoon in 2018, the MoD said in a statement.

British F-35s will carry the current version of ASRAAM until 2022 at which point it will be taken out of service...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /88827092/

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 12:54
by noth
No Storm Shadow for the F-35B is going to curtail the QE II Class's usefulness a bit. Might have to buy JASSM or whatever is in the US pipeline for Block IV to provide some capability at least. And no ASRAAM internally seems no good either...

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 15:37
by weasel1962
JSOW-er. 4 external instead of 2 storm shadows. Double the range.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 15:58
by SpudmanWP
noth wrote:No Storm Shadow for theis going to curtail the QE II Class's usefulness a bit. Might have to buy JASSM or whatever is in the US pipeline for Block IV to provide some capability at least. And no ASRAAM internally seems no good either...


Smart mfgs are going with UAI.

Not many countries are willing to fork over the tens of millions it takes to do a traditional weapon integration program.

Besides, going UAI also opens up all the current F-16, F-15 and future F-18 (SH) markets to your weapon at very little additional cost.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 17:34
by str
weasel1962 wrote:JSOW-er. 4 external instead of 2 storm shadows. Double the range.


JSOW, as a whole (500kg), weights only slightly more than Storm Shadow's warhead (450kg). They're in entirely separate classes. US equivalent is JASSM.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2016, 02:41
by weasel1962
...so put 2 bombs on each target. Same impact.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2016, 02:48
by jessmo111
Does anyone know if Asraam or AIM9
Can be used for cruise missile defense?
If they can that would explain the reasoning behind so much focus with external IR missiles.
Having 2 extra shots on the rails during a missile picket, could be the difference between life and death.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2016, 16:54
by weasel1962
Aim-9x was tested from an mml for exactly that purpose as part of ifpc inc 2-i.

If the f-35 uses boeing quad rail racks for stations 2,3,9,10, its a theretical 22 AAM missile loadout.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2016, 03:33
by str
weasel1962 wrote:...so put 2 bombs on each target. Same impact.


Only if CEP = 0.

(It doesn't)

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2016, 13:43
by uclass
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 5b-428544/

The ASRAAM is a short-range, infrared-guided missile capable of flying at Mach 3. Its new version will be manufactured at MBDA’s Bolton, Lancashire site. It has the same performance characteristics as the current configuration, but benefits from an MBDA seeker – a Raytheon one is currently used

It will also be easily upgraded through software changes that will enhance the image processing and algorithm performance, and components from other MBDA products – such as the Common Anti-air Modular Missile – will be introduced.


This could be the CAMM(A).

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2016, 13:48
by uclass
weasel1962 wrote:JSOW-er. 4 external instead of 2 storm shadows. Double the range.

Don't bet on that. The officially quoted range is for export purposes and the US knows that, which is why it refuses to integrate it on to Saudi fighters. You can make a better guess by examining the size - 5.1m.

The RAF however slipped up a while back and let the cat out of the bag.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150103054 ... shadow.cfm

Performance
Range: 300nm+


That's probably a for lo-lo flight profile too.

After release, the wings deploy and the weapon navigates its way to the target at low level using terrain profile matching and an integrated Global Positioning System (GPS).

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2016, 13:57
by uclass
noth wrote:No Storm Shadow for the F-35B is going to curtail the QE II Class's usefulness a bit. Might have to buy JASSM or whatever is in the US pipeline for Block IV to provide some capability at least. And no ASRAAM internally seems no good either...

Why use a stealth asset in a non-stealthy configuration to deploy a stealthy stand-off weapon? That's the question that led to the decision.

If a Typhoon can fire the missile from out of harms way, then why use an F-35 that could be performing another sortie at the same time, like a separate deep strike or escort. There are also 11 submarines capable of firing Block IVs from the middle of nowhere too.

The UK has limited money, so this (for once) seems like a sensible limitation of spending.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2016, 01:32
by spazsinbad
No apologies for keepin' youse in suspenders with the B for Bomber F-35B pic elsewhere (shades of Rocky Horror) but...
PICTURE: Paveway IV dropped from F-35
05 Dec 2016 Beth Stevenson

"Raytheon Systems' Paveway IV laser-guided bomb has been dropped from a Lockheed Martin F-35B, paving the way for integration of the weapon on the UK’s future Joint Strike Fighter fleet.

Carried out as part of a UK effort, the test took place at Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake in California using a US Marine Corps-operated F-35B. It was used to collect data on the interaction between the munition and the aircraft’s on-board computers and will be followed by live firings in the coming months.

The milestone marks the first weapons release under the UK’s integration programme, which saw a number of fit tests carried out at Edwards AFB in California earlier this year.

In addition to the Paveway IV, MBDA’s ASRAAM short-range, air-to-air missile will also be integrated onto the UK’s F-35s; live firings of the latter weapon will also be carried out over the coming months.

The integration work is part of the UK’s preparations for the initial operational capability for its Joint Strike Fighters and is being supported by BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman and the RAF Warfare Centre, in addition to Lockheed and the weapons manufacturers....

PHOTO: https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emid=69031

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-432098/

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 20:16
by spazsinbad
Britain, MBDA cut trio of missile-related deals worth $690M
21 Apr 2017 Andrew Chuter

"LONDON — In what is expected to be the final significant military equipment announcement by the British government ahead of the June 8 general election, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has revealed a set of missile-related orders with MBDA worth more than half a billion dollars.

Official go-ahead for the start of integration work on the Meteor air-to-air missile on the Lockheed Martin F-35B;... announced by Fallon at a hurriedly arranged visit to MBDA's Stevenage, England, site on April 21....

...the Ministry of Defence is investing £539 million (U.S. $690 million) in the orders, some of which have been sitting around for months awaiting announcement....

...Fallon’s announcement at Stevenage gave the official go-ahead for the start of the integration of the Meteor missile onto the F-35B fleet now slowly being built up by the British for use by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy.

The defense secretary said that the MoD was investing £41 million into the Meteor's integration and that the missiles would enter service on the F-35B in 2024. But the missile is expected to enter service even sooner next year when it begins to replace the Raytheon-made Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles on the Air Force’s Typhoon fleet...."

Graphic:"The Meteor missile is fired from a fighter jet in this artist's rendering. Photo Credit: Courtesy of MBDA Systems" http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/69/8d/e ... issile.jpg

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/bri ... worth-690m

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 23:48
by gabriele
Mostly behind paywall, but today's deal seems mostly about the clipped fins kit development and the test rounds for the trials.

http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/mbd ... 35-testing

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 08:51
by old_rn
Interesting graphic as it shows the F35B carrying 4 Meteors. The released one is from the door mounted one and there is another on the internal bay (plus two ASRAAMs). I wonder if the F35B Meteors will include the new Japanese active seeker?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 09:21
by spazsinbad
ZOOMed

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 09:47
by jessmo111
Meteor + F-35B combo will be really nasty! How do you argue that the Typhoon is the high in the hi lo mix when this combo will make it obsolete?!

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 11:27
by bojack_horseman
jessmo111 wrote:Meteor + F-35B combo will be really nasty! How do you argue that the Typhoon is the high in the hi lo mix when this combo will make it obsolete?!


Indeed, the UK will have a 'high-high' combination.

Regarding the respective loudouts, the UK having 2 x Meteor, 2 x ASRAAM & 8 x SPEAR-3s vs the USAF carrying 2 x AMRAAM, 2 x Sidewinder & 8 x SDBs, I think the UK will have a considerable advantage.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 04:19
by Corsair1963

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 14:27
by spazsinbad
UK MoD green lights Meteor integration on F-35B
26 Apr 2017 Robin Hughes

"The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has officially approved the integration of the Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) on the UK F-35B Lightning II multirole stealth aircraft under one of a raft of separate missile-related contract awards to the MBDA announced on 21 April.

A GBP41 million (USD52.5 million) contract provides for the development of an initial integration solution for Meteor on the F-35, a UK MoD Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) spokesperson told Jane's . "There will be a separate contract for full integration, the timeline of which will be guided by the US follow-on modernisation [FoM] programme. The UK is seeking to have the capability available on the F-35 from 2024," the spokesperson said. Meteor is a candidate for internal carriage on the UK's F-35B as part of the Block 4 capability upgrade cycle.

Dave Armstrong, managing director at MBDA UK, told Jane's that the contract essentially moves an earlier Meteor/F-35 integration study into the design phase. "We've already completed an initial study, and we understand precisely what we need to do. So this [contract] moves the study into the design phase, and we will end up with the right build of software and adaptation for Meteor on the F-35. We also have make sure that when the missile is in the internal weapons bay it is compatible with the aircraft and so our design work will also focus on safety parameters, release parameters, etc, to ensure that the missile works in the complete F-35 environment. So this contract will conclude with a finished product."

Armstrong confirmed that the design phase includes a minor hardware redesign to the missile tail fin. "As currently configured, the fins [on the Meteor] will not fit in the internal weapons bay of the F-35, and therefore they have to be redesigned. In simplistic terms we are cropping the top of the fin and are moving it elsewhere to retain the same surface area - and so the performance remains unchanged...."

Photo: "A mock-up of the Meteor BVRAAM in the internal carriage bay of the F-35B Lightning II. Note the cropped rear fins to allow internal carriage of the missile on the aircraft. Source: R Hughes" http://www.janes.com/images/assets/834/ ... -_main.jpg


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/69834/uk-m ... n-on-f-35b

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2017, 22:16
by spazsinbad
Photo of the Day
17 May 2017 Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR)

PHOTO:"Photo of the Day: U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields conducted U.K. AIM-132 and Paveway IV external weapons testing with an F-35B Lightning II Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL) variant May 12, 2017. Fields is based at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) and assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23." https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=597A4F33

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NAVAIR/photos/ ... =3&theater

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2017, 23:02
by lamoey
spazsinbad wrote:
Photo of the Day
17 May 2017 Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR)

PHOTO:"Photo of the Day: U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields conducted U.K. AIM-132 and Paveway IV external weapons testing with an F-35B Lightning II Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL) variant May 12, 2017. Fields is based at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) and assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23." https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=597A4F33

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NAVAIR/photos/ ... =3&theater


Should not the very tip of each of the Paveway point in the direction of the airflow, or is this a doctored picture?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2017, 23:05
by spazsinbad
Looks undoctored to me - aircraft in burner pulling some Gs most likely OR just accelerating in the turn? Except I have modified the photo - look at original which is smaller etc.... Photo may have been taken from below in level flight?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2017, 04:59
by rheonomic
Seems like the Paveway IVs do this, e.g. the Typhoon in this FlightGlobal article or the Harrier on this page.

At first I thought it might be the seeker heads pointing toward the ground, but the Typhoon picture is interesting as it looks like the Paveways on the left wing have the seeker head pointing down and the Paveways on the right wing are straight.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2017, 07:19
by johnwill
F-35 LEF is deflected, so AoA is significant and seeker heads are simply trying to maintain zero AoA.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2017, 00:03
by count_to_10
I did not know they did that.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2017, 17:43
by quicksilver
GBU-12 and similar weapons come to the jet with a round styrofoam shape mounted inside the fins so that the assembly doesnt bounce around (or get damaged) while being transported. Sometime during the loading sequence for the weapon, the shape is removed and the weight of the seeker head causes the assembly to tip in the direction of that weight. As air loads act upon the seeker (airborne), the seeker aligns with the aircraft vector.

Pic at the link.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jfr ... 504.jpg|||

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 03:23
by quicksilver
Deleted. Wrong thread.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 06:34
by rheonomic
quicksilver wrote:GBU-12 and similar weapons come to the jet with a round styrofoam shape mounted inside the fins so that the assembly doesnt bounce around (or get damaged) while being transported.


Cool, learnt something new today.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2017, 15:20
by uclass
gabriele wrote:
Richard Scott, London - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets
18 January 2016
Key Points

The integration of Storm Shadow on the F-35B as part of UK follow-on development has been dropped
The UK is looking to integrate the Meteor BVR air-to-air missile and the SPEAR Cap 3 stand-off precision guided weapon as part of Block 4

The United Kingdom (UK) Ministry of Defence (MoD) has abandoned plans to integrate the MBDA Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile on the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), and is instead looking at the far future integration of a new long-range deep-strike weapon projected under the still embryonic Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Cap 5 programme.


http://www.janes.com/article/57304/stor ... ation-plan

Very interesting. I think SPEAR 5 might be the same as the "Future Cruise and Anti-Ship Weapon" that UK and France are beginning to flesh out with a new round of studies to be launched this year. Anyone has access to the full Jane's article to see if my guess is on the mark, and to see the rest?

My take on this is that Storm Shadow is being dropped on F-35B because it can't carry tanks and missiles and the range of the B with two Storm Shadows would be limited, which is why I think they may opt for a mix of As and Bs yet.

I don't think Storm Shadow itself is dead yet though.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2017, 17:00
by neptune
uclass wrote:
gabriele wrote:
Richard Scott, London - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets
18 January 2016
Key Points

The integration of Storm Shadow on the F-35B as part of UK follow-on development has been dropped
The UK is looking to integrate the Meteor BVR air-to-air missile and the SPEAR Cap 3 stand-off precision guided weapon as part of Block 4

The United Kingdom (UK) Ministry of Defence (MoD) has abandoned plans to integrate the MBDA Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile on the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), and is instead looking at the far future integration of a new long-range deep-strike weapon projected under the still embryonic Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Cap 5 programme.


http://www.janes.com/article/57304/stor ... ation-plan

Very interesting. I think SPEAR 5 might be the same as the "Future Cruise and Anti-Ship Weapon" that UK and France are beginning to flesh out with a new round of studies to be launched this year. Anyone has access to the full Jane's article to see if my guess is on the mark, and to see the rest?

My take on this is that Storm Shadow is being dropped on F-35B because it can't carry tanks and missiles and the range of the B with two Storm Shadows would be limited, which is why I think they may opt for a mix of As and Bs yet.

I don't think Storm Shadow itself is dead yet though.


Storm Shadow:
300 nm, 0.8 mach, 3k lb, 17 ft, 900 lb warhead/ sub-munitions
:)

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 12:22
by hythelday
(I know it's also French but still)

MBDA introduces the SmartGlider family of weapons

Le Bourget, 19 June 2017.
MBDA presents the new SmartGlider family of guided weapons, optimised to counter anti-access strategies and other emerging battlespace threats. Planned to become available for fast jets no later than 2025, SmartGlider forms a family of all-up-round glider weapons, with folding wings and a range of over 100 km. This new generation of air-to-ground weapons is designed to counter new networked short- and medium-range surface-to-air threats, as well as moving/relocatable targets or hardened fixed targets.

The compact family member, SmartGlider Light, is 2 meters long and weighs 120 kg. 12 to 18 SmartGlider Lights can be carried on an aircraft thanks to a Hexabomb Smart Launcher (HSL) capable of managing reactive strikes without affecting the pilot’s workload [...]

Last, MBDA also prepares a 1,300 kg SmartGlider Heavy able to carry a multipurpose warhead of more than 1,000 kg to deal with large and hardened infrastructure.


Image


So I guess 120 kg glide bomb with a seeker is something with less range than SPEAR 3 but probably has a little more punch.

It's big brother is ~3000 pounds, and thus too heavy to be carried internally (as per disclosed rating of 2500 lb for station 4 and 8 hardpoints) on an F-35, and probably is too large for the British F-35B too. Also 1000 kg of HE in a 1300 kg package seems like an unproportionally large number even for a general purpose bomb, let alone penetrating one. Probably multiple warheads (shaped charge for penetration, rest to affect the target)?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 16:14
by steve2267
Sounds like MBDA just re-invented SDB II and JSOW?

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 08:24
by popcorn
https://www.upi.com/Harris-Corp-develop ... 505239883/

Harris Corp. developing F-35 missile release system

Sept. 12 (UPI) -- Harris Corporation is to develop a carriage and release system for the new MBDA Spear missile for Britain's F-35B aircraft and other fighters...
Under the contract, Harris will provide four internal bay-compatible SCORPION Lightweight Ejection Rack Units for two F-35 weapon bays. They are to provide the aircraft's pilot with reliable weapon-departure control of the missiles.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 07:08
by spazsinbad
The Joint New Air to Air Missile goes ahead
17 Dec 2017 Gabriele

"The JNAAM is a development of Meteor that will include, it is believed, an AESA seeker developed by Japan. This evolved missile would then equip aircraft including the F-35s of both UK and Japan. It is currently the most interesting joint programme among those launched with the aim of deepening the bilateral collaboration. At the Ministerial Meeting on 14 December the two countries agreed to looking forward “to the early embodiment of the joint research project including the research prototyping and the launch testing”.

The ministers also “welcomed that the first bilateral co-operative research project of Chemical and Biological Protection Technology was successfully completed in July 2017. They welcomed progress made on the Project for the Cooperative Research on Personnel Vulnerability Evaluation, and confirmed the exploration of possible co-operation on projects of interest including the Joint Preliminary Study on Potential Collaborative Opportunities for Future Combat Air System/ Future Fighter, launched in March this year”.

The JNAAM is very interesting on its own, but it becomes even more important as it could help open a path to joint development of that “Future Fighter” that could be the post-Typhoon face of UK airpower and the future of the british aerospace industry...."



Source: http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot ... le-of.html

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 08:04
by eloise
JNAAM
Capture.PNG

Capture1.PNG

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2019, 10:45
by spazsinbad
MBDA discloses development of SPEAR variants
18 Apr 2019 Robin Hughes

"MBDA in the UK has disclosed details on the development of two prospective air-launched missile variants evolved from its baseline SPEAR stand-off, air-to-surface developmental weapon system: SPEAR-EW (electronic warfare) and SPEAR-Glide.

Still in its development phase, the SPEAR weapon is MBDA's solution for the UK Ministry of Defence's (MoD's) 100 kg class Selective Precision Effects At Range Capability 3 (SPEAR Cap 3) requirement. The MoD awarded MBDA a GBP411 million (USD536 million) four-year SPEAR Cap 3 Development Phase contract in March 2016 for critical design and development work to tailor the SPEAR weapon for use within the internal weapons bay of the UK Royal Air Force and Royal Navy F-35 Lightning multirole stealth aircraft. Integration of SPEAR onto the Eurofighter Typhoon is also a programme of record for the RAF.

SPEAR is a long-range missile powered by a Pratt & Whitney TJ-130 turbojet engine to deliver a given range of over 140 km, according to MBDA. Designed to operate as an all-weather capability, SPEAR introduces a significant evolution of the terminal guidance seeker package developed for the Brimstone missile, featuring a combined radio frequency (RF) imaging sensor and a semi-active laser (SAL) seeker with an enhanced algorithm and processing capability that enables the missile to 'see' and record images of the target area through the RF imaging element of the seeker.

Navigation is delivered through anti-jam GPS combined with a Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems (MEMS)-based inertial measurement unit sourced from UTC Aerospace Systems. The missile also features an insensitive munition-compliant multi-effects warhead - sourced from TDW - with multiple fusing options that provides a low collateral footprint and allows for tunable effects to the target; and a two-way datalink.

Weighing less than 100 kg and 1.8 m in length, MBDA's SPEAR solution features a circular 180 mm cross-section airframe, dorsally mounted fold-out wings (folding rearward for stowage), a revised intake arrangement with twin side inlets, and three folding tail surfaces."

Graphic: "Artist’s rendering of the baseline SPEAR weapon, SPEAR-EW, and SPEAR-Glide launched from the F-35 and Eurofighter Typhoon platforms. Source: MBDA" https://www.janes.com/images/assets/978 ... 0_main.jpg


Source: https://www.janes.com/article/87978/mbd ... r-variants

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2019, 16:06
by eloise
I can't stress how excited iam for SPEAR-EW , best thing ever

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2019, 09:49
by timmymagic
eloise wrote:I can't stress how excited iam for SPEAR-EW , best thing ever


The 3 versions of Spear are a fantastic capability.
Spear itself outperforms any competition, but won't be cheap..
Spear EW is a fairly unique capability, smaller than MALD-J
SpearGlide will be the direct SDBII Stormbreaker competitor with a larger warhead but no propulsion

What the range really needs though is a Spear 'Simple' (what used to be called 'Value Engineered'). Essentially a SpearGlide without the MMW seeker, just reliant on GPS/INS and possibly a SAL seeker head. That would provide some competition for SDBI and round the range out.

As to SmartGlider? That really demonstrates one of the flaws in MBDA as a joint European missile house. SpearGlide and Spear already fill that niche in the MBDA catalogue, instead because the French won't buy Spear they're going to re-invent the wheel....madness.

SmartGlider Heavy though is interesting. The UK needs a a heavier weapon that PWIV with its 500lb warhead. EPWIII and PWII are not going to be carried by F-35 for the UK and the UK lacks a longer range gliding weapon. The template for SmartGlider Heavy should be JSOW. A weapon with modular payloads would be very useful.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2019, 23:54
by element1loop
timmymagic wrote:
eloise wrote:I can't stress how excited iam for SPEAR-EW , best thing ever


What the range really needs though is a Spear 'Simple' (what used to be called 'Value Engineered'). Essentially a SpearGlide without the MMW seeker, just reliant on GPS/INS and possibly a SAL seeker head. That would provide some competition for SDBI and round the range out.


If you don't want to re-invent a wheel for a general-purpose precision-guided glide-bomb then cheap-ish JDAM-ER kits exist and can be configured or upgraded as necessary with a laser sensor plus immunity to GPS-jamming or an all-weather radar sensor. Testing achieved a claimed 72 km from a 40,000 ft launch (classic Hornet) with a 500 lb GBU, so is likely to go further out with F-35 and its 10K to 15K feet higher altitude performance.

Image

Image

Image

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2019, 00:03
by marauder2048
timmymagic wrote:The template for SmartGlider Heavy should be JSOW. A weapon with modular payloads would be very useful.


Except JSOW-ER is going the other direction by trading (in a non-modular way) payload for range.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2019, 07:58
by squirrelshoes
I don't get JSOW-ER. Well I get the usefulness of a standoff weapon but it's not like they are lobbing it at guys in a pickup truck, they are going to use it to hit something valuable. Might as well use JASSM which is more survivable (stealthier, can fly lower) and has a bigger warhead.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2019, 08:15
by SpudmanWP
JSOW-ER is internal to the F-35.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2019, 09:23
by element1loop
squirrelshoes wrote:I don't get JSOW-ER. Well I get the usefulness of a standoff weapon but it's not like they are lobbing it at guys in a pickup truck, they are going to use it to hit something valuable. Might as well use JASSM which is more survivable (stealthier, can fly lower) and has a bigger warhead.


Dedicated RCS treatment plus carried to high-altitude in cold air before launch then glides through cold air for most of the way, at a speed which makes for next to no thermal heating of leading edges. I'm guessing it has penetration and terminal electronic aids to explain the smaller warhead within such a large chassis. RAAF chose to use JSOW on Super Hornet (JASSM on the classic Hornet only) and it was these Super Hornets which replaced the F-111 as a dedicated regional strike aircraft, where JSOW was its best stand-off strike weapon. Recently noticed JASSM (not just LRASM) is now listed as integrated on Super Hornet so I guess JASSM's now an option there too.

JSOW lacks little other than the range for a 4th-gen to make a surprise strike but now with F-35A internal carry that's covered to. If you need LOS sensor observation of the target and strike then JSOW's the cheaper dedicated VLO weapon for it.

Internal JSOW-ER on F-35A and C is still 4 years away from first batch delivery, apparently to USN first (even though LRASM, JASSM and JASSM-ER are now all available on SH). JSOW-ER capability remains a priority, presumably because it remains cheaper than buying a new JASSM-ER. But even then there's no indication JSOW-C1 will be phased out.

The Requirements for the JSOW-ER includes: extending the range of the existing JSOW C-1 variant while maintaining targeting and performance capabilities, carriage on F-18 and internal carriage on F-35A/C while minimizing any changes to existing aircraft integration and limitations, hardware and software modifications to optimize midcourse and endgame performance for the powered variant of the JSOW, and deployment to the fleet no later than FY23.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity ... e&_cview=0

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2019, 22:15
by marauder2048
element1loop wrote:guessing it has penetration and terminal electronic aids to explain the smaller warhead within such a large chassis.


Based on what? They barely had enough power to sustain the datalink at range for JSOW-C-1.

I guess you could argue that the alternator on the TJ-150 would let them power the datalink
at the extended range and some EW features but given that they carve up the warhead
to fit the fuel tank I'm skeptical of any other additions.


element1loop wrote:Internal JSOW-ER on F-35A and C is still 4 years away from first batch delivery, apparently to USN first (even though LRASM, JASSM and JASSM-ER are now all available on SH). JSOW-ER capability remains a priority, presumably because it remains cheaper than buying a new JASSM-ER. But even then there's no indication JSOW-C1 will be phased out.


Based on the FY20 budget, it's cheaper than buying JASSM baseline.
And datalinked; they have talked about datalinking JASSM versions other than LRASM
but my guess is that they'll just wait for JASSM-D.

I'm guessing JSOW-C-1 will be reworked to JSOW-ER standard.

What you will likely get with JSOW-ER is the equivalent to powered version of SDB with a datalink and terminal seeker.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 05:43
by magitsu
element1loop wrote:Internal JSOW-ER on F-35A and C is still 4 years away from first batch delivery, apparently to USN first (even though LRASM, JASSM and JASSM-ER are now all available on SH). JSOW-ER capability remains a priority, presumably because it remains cheaper than buying a new JASSM-ER. But even then there's no indication JSOW-C1 will be phased out.


Classic JASSM is probably unavailable without redesign due to turbine manufacturer Teledyne leaving the business. Same turbine (Teledyne CAE J402-CA-100) was apparently in certain other missiles too (Harpoon?). It probably could use WDL aka 2-way datalink from -ER too at the same time.

But the family is looking at increased demand (new factory in Alabama), so they will be developed further.
https://www.defenseone.com/business/201 ... les/158943

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 06:37
by aussiebloke
magitsu wrote:
Classic JASSM is probably unavailable without redesign due to turbine manufacturer Teledyne leaving the business.


According to the DoD’s FY2020 budget papers “The last JASSM-Baseline was delivered on 20 December 18“.

All subsequent deliveries of JASSM are either JASSM-ER or from October 2022 the AGM-158D (this appears to be what was previously referred to as JASSM-XR or JASSM Extended Range).
https://apps.dtic.mil/procurement/Y2020 ... B_2020.pdf

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 08:45
by element1loop
magitsu wrote:Classic JASSM is probably unavailable without redesign due to turbine manufacturer Teledyne leaving the business. Same turbine (Teledyne CAE J402-CA-100) was apparently in certain other missiles too (Harpoon?). It probably could use WDL aka 2-way datalink from -ER too at the same time.

But the family is looking at increased demand (new factory in Alabama), so they will be developed further.
https://www.defenseone.com/business/201 ... les/158943


Yes, saw that story on the JASSM production expansion. Good news, plus demand expressed for more LRASM.

Brit F-35B won't be able to carry JSM, JSOW-C1 or JSOW-ER internally, external only, so they may have to develop some internal alternative to JSOW-C1 carried on the A and C.

As per ...

timmymagic wrote:SmartGlider Heavy though is interesting. The UK needs a a heavier weapon that PWIV with its 500lb warhead. EPWIII and PWII are not going to be carried by F-35 for the UK and the UK lacks a longer range gliding weapon. The template for SmartGlider Heavy should be JSOW. A weapon with modular payloads would be very useful.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 09:08
by element1loop
aussiebloke wrote:According to the DoD’s FY2020 budget papers “The last JASSM-Baseline was delivered on 20 December 18“.


JASSM's claimed range is ~370 km while Kongsberg claims 500 km for JSM, which has proper NSM-like anti-ship capabilities too. So that's most likely the next general-purpose stealth cruise strike weapon from here. Japan made a $71 million USD order in March for an unknown number of JSM.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 19:05
by marauder2048
magitsu wrote:It probably could use WDL aka 2-way datalink from -ER too at the same time.


It was dropped from -ER a decade ago.
LRASM has it and it might find its way back onto the rest of the family.

Has anyone actually found a reliable unit cost for JSM? The 250+ nm range, ~ $500k unit cost
category seems to be pretty vacant aside from JSOW-ER.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2019, 19:00
by squirrelshoes
element1loop wrote:JASSM's claimed range is ~370 km while Kongsberg claims 500 km for JSM, which has proper NSM-like anti-ship capabilities too. So that's most likely the next general-purpose stealth cruise strike weapon from here. Japan made a $71 million USD order in March for an unknown number of JSM.

I think Japan is buying JSM to be able to sink Chinese ships, it's got a warhead appropriate for taking ships out of action more than being a general purpose cruise missile. JASSM-ER can go 925km with a 1,000lb warhead, which gives it a lot more land attack applications than JSM.

Re: British weapons for the F-35

Unread postPosted: 10 Sep 2019, 17:55
by garrya
EED5D3BA-817D-4849-9E00-247E0A0C0FAF.jpeg