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Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 18:57
by SpudmanWP
That is not to say that the ATK "proposal" for AARGM-ER will be the winning proposal. In that aspect you are right.

It very well might end up being a VFDR AARGM such as these recent items that have appeared.

Image
Image

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 19:27
by sferrin
That bottom one is relatively old. HSAD. Here's another view of that Raytheon configuration:

HARM_VFDR.jpg

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 19:28
by sferrin
There are several floating around out there that look very similar. That one on the Phantom above. . .I've seen shots of the same configuration but about AIM-120 diameter on an F-16. I've seen various acronyms associated with them.

hsads.png


F-16_Missile.jpg

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 19:52
by SpudmanWP
sferrin wrote:That bottom one is relatively old. HSAD. Here's another view of that Raytheon configuration:


I thought so to, but there are several differences between the missiles.

In your example the missile is ejector launched, its VFDR duct inlet is angled down, and its nose is pointed where in my example it is a rail launched missile, its VFDR inlets that are perpendicular to the direction of travel, and it's nose is more rounded.

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 03:43
by popcorn
hornetfinn wrote:F-35 and AARGM combo sounds like a real killer. Thinking about it from AD radar operator PoV it sounds like nightmare. Having almost invisible ARM shooter with capabilities to counter short emission duration and shut-down tactics is very difficult one to counter and psychologically really tough to handle. With older SEAD aircraft the operators had pretty good idea what was in the air (even with EW) and when they were under attack. There were tactics to counter ARM attacks because of it. With F-35 and AARGM the uncertainty grows a lot and makes it very dangerous to emit radar signals. It might well be that radar blowing up is the first signal of being under attack. AARGM looks like it might have very low RCS itself and is likely quite a bit faster and longer ranged than HARM.



IADS commander's dilemma : "Use 'em or lose them".

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 08:41
by neptune
popcorn wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:F-35 and AARGM combo sounds like a real killer. Thinking about it from AD radar operator PoV it sounds like nightmare. Having almost invisible ARM shooter with capabilities to counter short emission duration and shut-down tactics is very difficult one to counter and psychologically really tough to handle. With older SEAD aircraft the operators had pretty good idea what was in the air (even with EW) and when they were under attack. There were tactics to counter ARM attacks because of it. With F-35 and AARGM the uncertainty grows a lot and makes it very dangerous to emit radar signals. It might well be that radar blowing up is the first signal of being under attack. AARGM looks like it might have very low RCS itself and is likely quite a bit faster and longer ranged than HARM.



IADS commander's dilemma : "Use 'em or lose them".


....would one really waste an AARGM on a radar or the command and control center. Shirley it can distinguish the difference!
:)

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 08:59
by popcorn
neptune wrote:
popcorn wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:F-35 and AARGM combo sounds like a real killer. Thinking about it from AD radar operator PoV it sounds like nightmare. Having almost invisible ARM shooter with capabilities to counter short emission duration and shut-down tactics is very difficult one to counter and psychologically really tough to handle. With older SEAD aircraft the operators had pretty good idea what was in the air (even with EW) and when they were under attack. There were tactics to counter ARM attacks because of it. With F-35 and AARGM the uncertainty grows a lot and makes it very dangerous to emit radar signals. It might well be that radar blowing up is the first signal of being under attack. AARGM looks like it might have very low RCS itself and is likely quite a bit faster and longer ranged than HARM.



IADS commander's dilemma : "Use 'em or lose them".


....would one really waste an AARGM on a radar or the command and control center. Shirley it can distinguish the difference!
:)

Why not both? Equally worthy IMO.

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 00:34
by popcorn
ATK has been awarded a contract to begin development of the New Air Defense Blasting Missile (NADBM) :mrgreen: or AARGM-ER as it's officially known. In a smart move to speed things up, it's being justified as an update and modification of the existing AGM-88E.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17 ... nside-f-35

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 03:20
by neptune
popcorn wrote:........would one really waste an AARGM on a radar or the command and control center. Shirley it can distinguish the difference!
:)

Why not both? Equally worthy IMO.[/quote]

....people;
1- time and money spent on C2 training and experience in your "former" frontline missile bait unit; replacing them with available "new" frontline missile bait people
2- new missile bait people "say" they accept (not!) their new C2 assignments from the "loss" of the previous missile bait people in the same site as new missile bait!
3- sitting in a truck waiting to develop tracks that show the timing of your own demise as C2 missile bait
4- having 300 sets of hardware in the warehouse with anxious C2 people to become missile bait, become a bit less effective
:wink:

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 03:25
by steve2267
Hampton wasn't terribly keen on the HARM. He shirley did like cluster bombs, though. I think he said they were a fighter pilot's shotgun.

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 27 Jan 2018, 18:42
by wolfpak
From Wiki:

"The W80 is physically quite small: the "physics package" itself is about the size of a conventional Mk.81 250-pound (110 kg) bomb, 11.8 inches (30 cm) in diameter and 31.4 inches (80 cm) long, and only slightly heavier at about 290 pounds (130 kg)."

If the AARGM airframe could carry the above it would make for a formidable weapon for both the F-35 and B-21. Like what they envisioned the T-SRAM II for the F-15E before the end of the cold war.

Re: FUTURE F-35 AARGM UPDATES

Unread postPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 07:25
by element1loop
wolfpak wrote:If the AARGM airframe could carry the above it would make for a formidable weapon ... .


Beauty of VLO network tech, you don't need those things (i.e. deter only).

Combine this new ARM missile with long-range precision passive targeting, already in F-35 ... scarey combo ...