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F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 19:15
by bring_it_on
Some literature on mounting HEL on the JSF:

High Energy Solid State and Free Electron Laser Systems In Tactical Aviation - Robb P Manfield, Naval Postgraduate School

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260233033/HE ... edQtJhRCUa

High Energy Laser on the Joint Strike Fighter - A Reality in 2025? - Lt. Col. Jeffrey A Hausmann (USAF) - Air War College

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260230916/JS ... ergy-Laser

Military Utility of HEL Fighter, Tom Burris, Lockheed Martin

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260232584/HE ... YG1Ff0bzUb

A HEL Testbed for High Accuracy Beam Pointing and Control - Naval Post Graduate School

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260233032/HE ... Yj1KiTE6ZL

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 20:12
by spazsinbad
Thanks - I'll have to check them out - some more URLs for the collection above:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25533&p=276885&hilit=Dunn#p276885
&
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16676&p=212183&hilit=Dunn#p212183

FOR same PDF as in the F-16.net URLs - but relocated now - so this one works: http://www.northropgrumman.com/AboutUs/ ... _of_La.pdf (0.4Mb)

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 20:21
by bring_it_on
Thanks.

Here's another, more relevant given the ABC program..

Recent Airborne Aero-Optics Laboratory In-Flight Waveform Measurements of Aero-Optics and Implications for Aero-Optics Beam Control in Tactical laser Weapons.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/260233383/Ai ... OjHr1YwZyB

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 22:56
by neptune
bring_it_on wrote:Thanks. ..Recent Airborne Aero-Optics Laboratory In-Flight Waveform Measurements of Aero-Optics and Implications for Aero-Optics Beam Control in Tactical laser Weapons. ..


How much electrical power is required for HEL?
How can the JSF currently provide the power required for the HEL?
Is that power requirement possible in a future configuration of the JSF?

:?: 8)

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 23:03
by archeman
neptune wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:Thanks. ..Recent Airborne Aero-Optics Laboratory In-Flight Waveform Measurements of Aero-Optics and Implications for Aero-Optics Beam Control in Tactical laser Weapons. ..


How much electrical power is required for HEL?
How can the JSF currently provide the power required for the HEL?
Is that power requirement possible in a future configuration of the JSF?

:?: 8)


Related question, was this system part of the requirements set for F-35s unique 270v DC power supply?

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 23:04
by bring_it_on
neptune wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:Thanks. ..Recent Airborne Aero-Optics Laboratory In-Flight Waveform Measurements of Aero-Optics and Implications for Aero-Optics Beam Control in Tactical laser Weapons. ..


How much electrical power is required for HEL?
How can the JSF currently provide the power required for the HEL?
Is that power requirement possible in a future configuration of the JSF?

:?: 8)


The material in the first post covers that in addition to the following topics -

- How much power is required from the Laser to be effective in different mission scenarios such as Air to Air (offensive), Air to Air (defensive), Air to ground etc

- What sort of power generation is going to be required under various HEL size projections

- What plans do Lockheed and others have to generate that power

- What plans do Lockheed and others have to dissipate the heat produced from generating sufficient power

They are long (250-300 pages ) but I believe them to be worth it as the analysis is quite good.

I'll post more on the future in terms of what capability at the Propulsion level is being looked at and how more demand is being met over the longer arc of time under various AFRL efforts such as INVENT and the broader VAATE.

To start you can go over this (I may have posted this earlier)

VAATE - AIAA Position paper

https://www.scribd.com/doc/254275332/VAATE

and

INVENT

https://www.scribd.com/doc/254275746/IN ... rview-Iden

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 30 Mar 2015, 23:17
by spazsinbad
Top & Tail of this page tells an F-35 Laser story: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16676&p=212183&hilit=Dunn#p212183

In the A OR B model take out the fuel tank/LiftFan behind the pilot - add a laser - good to go....
Operational Implications of Laser Weapons
Sep 2005 Richard J. Dunn, III

"...the concept for integrating a SSL [Solid State Laser] into the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter would place the laser system in the fan cavity of the short-take-off-and vertical-landing version of the aircraft and use the fan shaft to power a megawatt-sized generator..."

Source: http://www.northropgrumman.com/AboutUs/ ... _of_La.pdf (0.4Mb)

Laser Battlefield Future perhaps:
DARPA Unveils Drone-Slaying War Laser
03-08-2012 Neal Ungerleider

"A weapon that used to be the size of a passenger jet now fits on the back of a flatbed truck...."

http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/20 ... .laser.jpg

Source: http://www.fastcompany.com/1823017/darp ... rone-laser

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 00:23
by Dragon029

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 00:29
by spazsinbad
It has been repeated twice above now - the updated link to the NG PDF.

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 01:45
by popcorn
HELLADS at 150kW in a750Kg/ 3-cubic meter footprint good enough to destroy aircraft for airborne testing in 2018. Can't wait.
A megawatt-class electric laser installed on a F35B? Way better.
IMO Congress and the public are going to fall in love with these things and fund them. They all grew up watching Star Wars.

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 01:48
by bring_it_on
A megawatt-class electric laser installed on a F35B? Way better.


MW would be the power requirement..The laser being talked about would be about 100 KW and the papers I have seem to suggest that such a capacity is good for a2a and some a2g, although it may not cover all the a2g work/mission. A 100KW system would require around 1.1 MW of power. Even a 40KW podded system packs a punch.

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 01:57
by eloise
Why would they put laser on a submarine ?
BTW, what would be the range of 100 kw laser? 1 km? 5 km? ( I mean destruction range.)

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 02:06
by bring_it_on
btw what would be the range of 100 kw laser? 1 km? 5 km? ( i mean destruction range)


A lot lot more. I would suggest that you take some time and read some of the resources presented in this thread. Keep in mind that the range depends upon the sort of target and its a combination of distance and time (among others such as clouds etc) that ultimately determines destruction.

Some snippets :

Lasers with power levels around 25 kW can be used in a defensive mode, such as negating ground-to-air missiles. Lasers with 50 kW begin to offer offensive air-to-air capabilities. To provide lethal air-to-ground effects, at least 100 kW of output power is needed.


A more detailed explanation of the various missions in the air-to-ground domain are given in the Mansfield paper which itself is cited by most of the academic work on the matter that I have come across.

More later...

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 02:12
by popcorn
bring_it_on wrote:
A megawatt-class electric laser installed on a F35B? Way better.


MW would be the power requirement..The laser being talked about would be about 100 KW and the papers I have seem to suggest that such a capacity is good for a2a and some a2g, although it may not cover all the a2g work/mission. A 100KW system would require around 1.1 MW of power. Even a 40KW podded system packs a punch.

Read the article, my bad. Still a very useful capability and worth pursuing.

Re: F-35 High Energy Laser

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2015, 02:58
by eskodas
Awesome post and work, added it to upgrade section with credit. https://comprehensiveinformation.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/upgrades/