SDB II Scores Hits in Flight Tests

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 16:44

sferrin wrote:TOR is designed to be as cheap as possible, and still get the job done. All the brains are on the chassis. IIRC the thing is command guided. Don't know if it makes the missiles cheaper than JDAMs though.

Command guided tells me that if the host radar is being jammed then it's targeting will be degraded. I also see that TOR has a total of 8 missiles per system. I single F-35 with SDBs/SPEAR3 can run a TOR empty. Not good odds when F-35s can be operating in flights of four tens of miles apart.
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marauder2048

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 18:53

The discussion was about a "couple" JDAM-ERs against an opponent with a capability to
detect and intercept it with a SAM.

At the ranges indicated, it's at least a 10 minute time of flight for a weapon with:

1. no signature reduction
2. no datalink to be guided around popups
3. little maneuverability
4. fairly low velocity in the target area

JDAM-ER is much bigger electrically and physically than RAM targets but slower.

The price estimates I've seen for JDAM-ER are well about $50k.
That has to be weighed against RAM interceptors that are pretty close in cost and
the slow approach of JDAM-ER permits a shoot-look-shoot doctrine.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 19:53

I'm just pointing out that only using a "couple of JDAM-ERs" to attack a SAM site is foolish when saturation options exist. I agree that .7-.8M glide bombs are not hard targets to hit.
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swiss

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 20:26

So what would be the ideal weapon for the F-35, to eliminate a top notch sam system?
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sferrin

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 20:33

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:I'm just pointing out that only using a "couple of JDAM-ERs" to attack a SAM site is foolish when saturation options exist. I agree that .7-.8M glide bombs are not hard targets to hit.


First you have to knock down the S-300/400s.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post19 Aug 2019, 21:08

JASSM-ER
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sferrin

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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 00:00

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:JASSM-ER


Why wouldn't TOR be able to handle that? (They defend S-300/400 sites.)
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 00:05

TOR was overwhelmed by SDB/SPEAR swarm. JASSM-ER is powered and stealthy. Take your pick. I have full confidence in the ability of an F-35 to get within SDB range of S300/S400/TOR without being fired upon.
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weasel1962

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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 00:34

Horizon limitations mean the S-series SAM radars, assuming no AEW, have difficulty detecting low flying aircraft. Even legacies flying nap should reach SDB launch range before detection.
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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:15

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:JASSM-ER


And probably several other cheaper standoff VLO weapons if supported with standoff Growler EA/ECM/ESM and/or a forward flight of F-35A in support of the weapon(s). If only to log techniques the S300/400 attempts to use, then negate them.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:24

Israelis have another way of negating such SAMs. Cheap kamikaze drones.
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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:28

If we are talking SEAD, AARGM-ER/SiAW.

My view is that the emphasis on C-UAS/C-RAM is going to make the low-slow
or glide bomb approaches vulnerable to cheap kills by the defense.
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weasel1962

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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:34

CRAM still has difficulties handling multiple vector saturation attacks. Even "low speed" glide bombs are still travelling at 150m/s which limits counter-saturation capabilities. Same goes with AA cluster warheads (which can't handle multiple vector). The key is just to increase the numbers of munitions per target.
Last edited by weasel1962 on 20 Aug 2019, 02:40, edited 1 time in total.
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element1loop

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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:36

weasel1962 wrote:Israelis have another way of negating such SAMs. Cheap kamikaze drones.


Hmm, or a 'loyal-wingman' fleet of small drones delivered by CBU with pre-launch targeting done by the host or a wingman's F-35 ISR and classifications. Then use F-35 flight EA to support their automated terminal phase. If the first fails to kill all then use the second CBU.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post20 Aug 2019, 02:41

Can even be ground-launched kamikaze drones e.g. Harpy/Harop which have 500km range. Flyboys follow up in case the SAM radars get turned off.
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