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F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 06:08
by hcobb
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... riers.html
The review further suggests the planes will be unable to fire the British Asraam air-to-air missile.


A quick look in the quick look review shows that the ASRAAM was not considered as part of the review.

RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 06:39
by alloycowboy

RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 16:13
by destroid
That sounds like a very expensive missile.

RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 16:54
by shingen
Who cares?

AMRAAM is the missile for the F-35. Meteor and AMRAAM's successor are also likely to be very fine weapons.

RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 17:10
by hcobb
The only targeting IR sensors on the F-22 are on the pair of Sidewinders.

It would be a pity if the F-35 had no IR missiles.

Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 17:49
by stobiewan
hcobb wrote:The only targeting IR sensors on the F-22 are on the pair of Sidewinders.

It would be a pity if the F-35 had no IR missiles.


There will be - it's just that the plans to clear the ASRAAM for internal carriage were swapped with other work back in 2008 - that'll still leave the external stations cleared for a lock on after launch profile with ASRAAM and 9X plus anything else that can hang off the pylons.

Basically it's part of the capability mix - day one you can go into a contested environment with a pair of JDAM's, take out the tough targets, day two (or day 12, however it's going), you can break out the LO pylons and go in a bit dirtier, carry some more stores and make more of a mess.

I think it stems from the fact that F35 doesn't have any extending rails, which is how the F22 does the deed.

Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 20:46
by wrightwing
hcobb wrote:The only targeting IR sensors on the F-22 are on the pair of Sidewinders.

It would be a pity if the F-35 had no IR missiles.


That's not a permanent problem for the F-22(AAR-56 upgrades), and as for the F-35, you're ignoring the fact that weapons integration is prioritized. IR missiles can be carried externally from the start. Later Block upgrades will likely result in internal carriage/stealthy external carriage. The JDRADM will certainly address this issue as well.

RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 21:14
by tacf-x
JDRADM will be highly versatile and will be optimized for internal carriage from the start so the F-35 can carry many of them. That and considering the maneuverability of the JDRADM I think ASRAAM is irrelevant.

RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 22:10
by shingen
It already is. There's a doc posted recently talking about the JSF development. They dumped the canards and internal 9X carriage at around the same time. Note also that 9X has a range of only around 10km. I'm guessing that unless the USAF is grossly incompetent that there's some overlap in the ability of AMRAAM to cover short distances and the max range of 9X. What that means is that AMRAAM can handle pretty much any scenario that the 35 will encounter. Note also that the 22 carries 9M and that getting it 9X doesn't really seem that important to anyone.

ASRAAM's claim to fame is that in one exercise some link 16 equipped Tornadoes used it to take silent shots on some F-15's. What they were testing in the exercise was networking, not "silent" shots.

Re: RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 23:07
by navy_airframer
shingen wrote:Note also that 9X has a range of only around 10km.


That figure is pure BS. Triple that range and you might get the bottom side of the 9x Bl2 range. I almost wish I could throw the numbers out that ive heard in the ready room. But all you have to do is a quick Google search instead.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 00:22
by hcobb
Quoting from LockMart's design doc as they drop the canard of being able to engage in dogfighting.

The development of stealth and long-range air-to-air missiles had
changed the nature of air combat, and so the emphasis was on
achieving a first-look, first-kill capability and reducing the need to
dogfight at close range. For these reasons, the two AIM 9 missiles
were removed and the aircraft was designed to carry two 2000 lb
bombs in the internal weapons bays...


What could possibly go wrong?

ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 00:40
by Gums
Salute!

I thot the ASRAAM had the LOAL capability. I just wouldn't want to launch one unless I knew it had the real bandit locked on in a furball situation ( as unlikely as that will soon be).

I was surprised last Friday when crawling thru the F-35 bays that there were no trapeze launchers for the LOBL missiles like older 'winders. When I was working on the Navy A-12 armament system, we had trapeze launchers for the 'winders and Sparrows and even the HARM's ( for some modes).

Haven't finished my AAR on the tour of the 33rd Wing, but I can tell you that the two bays are much larger than I remember from a 2005 look at the mockup. Imagine a really tall telephone booth laid on its side. Didn't bring tape measure, but those suckers are long and wide. Guess that explains how "fat" the thing looks.

I wouldn't worry about the ASRAAM if I were a Brit. The targeting system of the F-35 and the missile seeker/sfwe will do just fine unless the bandit is within 2 or 3 degrees of your buddy, way it looks to me.


Gums sends...

RE: ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 00:54
by SpudmanWP
ASRAAM has LOAL but no datalink.

Here is a design study of a trapeze launcher for the F-35

Image

Re: RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 03:34
by wrightwing
shingen wrote:It already is. There's a doc posted recently talking about the JSF development. They dumped the canards and internal 9X carriage at around the same time. Note also that 9X has a range of only around 10km. I'm guessing that unless the USAF is grossly incompetent that there's some overlap in the ability of AMRAAM to cover short distances and the max range of 9X. What that means is that AMRAAM can handle pretty much any scenario that the 35 will encounter. Note also that the 22 carries 9M and that getting it 9X doesn't really seem that important to anyone.



The AIM-9X Block I has considerably more range than 10km, unless you're talking about a tail chase shot, from low altitude/airspeed. The Block II version expands on that envelope considerably. The AMRAAM is effective against targets as close as 2km.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: F-35 unable to fire ASRAAM

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 04:33
by shingen
2 km, what gets closer than that?