F35A Air to Air loadout?

F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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deadseal

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 06:49

[/quote]
Has there been an issue with AMRAAM fins falling off in flight?[/quote]
Yes. Weapons fail all the time. Much like any mechanical device. You never shoot once and turn away.
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deadseal

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 07:00

Conan wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Listening to some members. Makes me wonder if they think every F-35 flying a mission together are going to equipped with the same Weapons Load????

Clearly, a squadron of F-35 could have part equipped with 2-AMRAAMS and Multiple PGM's. While a number of the other F-35's could be equipped solely with AAM's. Of course the mix would depend on the threat........


Really, we need to get off this two dimensional thinking!


Precisely. People are FAR too hung up on the basic testing warload of 2x AMRAAM and 2x 2000lbs PGM's as THE operational warload for the F-35.

it is NOT. It is a representative warload for baseline testing purposes. It is not "the warload" that is going to address every threat?

If more missiles are required, SOME aircraft in the force packages will carry them. Some might sacrifice SOME of the F-35's LO nature to do this, whilst others will maintain a FULL LO capability.

It is called TACTICS people. Forces fight in a structured, systematic way in the modern era. Not in 1 v 1 aerial battles and the F-35 will NOT be fighting alone. EVERY operation will see the F-35 work alongside, F-22's or F-15's or F/A-18 Super Hornets or Eurofighters or Gripens etc.

What it will bring to the table IS different to what these other aircraft can. It will add to the capability of ANY force not detract from it and it's capability will be more than sufficient for any force that employs it.


Sounds like your saying its a multi role fighter! I see the first block carrying only 4 missiles and remaining stealthy...that is not very many but hell...what can the rcs pricetag be of 4 more missiles hanging when they are pointing down your intake right Plus i bet the RCS of 2 external GBU-31/10's would be a notional addition to expected contact range. Is there a stealthy centerline bag to carry extra fuel like the gun pod?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 07:31

deadseal wrote:
Conan wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Listening to some members. Makes me wonder if they think every F-35 flying a mission together are going to equipped with the same Weapons Load????

Clearly, a squadron of F-35 could have part equipped with 2-AMRAAMS and Multiple PGM's. While a number of the other F-35's could be equipped solely with AAM's. Of course the mix would depend on the threat........


Really, we need to get off this two dimensional thinking!


Precisely. People are FAR too hung up on the basic testing warload of 2x AMRAAM and 2x 2000lbs PGM's as THE operational warload for the F-35.

it is NOT. It is a representative warload for baseline testing purposes. It is not "the warload" that is going to address every threat?

If more missiles are required, SOME aircraft in the force packages will carry them. Some might sacrifice SOME of the F-35's LO nature to do this, whilst others will maintain a FULL LO capability.

It is called TACTICS people. Forces fight in a structured, systematic way in the modern era. Not in 1 v 1 aerial battles and the F-35 will NOT be fighting alone. EVERY operation will see the F-35 work alongside, F-22's or F-15's or F/A-18 Super Hornets or Eurofighters or Gripens etc.

What it will bring to the table IS different to what these other aircraft can. It will add to the capability of ANY force not detract from it and it's capability will be more than sufficient for any force that employs it.


Sounds like your saying its a multi role fighter! I see the first block carrying only 4 missiles and remaining stealthy...that is not very many but hell...what can the rcs pricetag be of 4 more missiles hanging when they are pointing down your intake right Plus i bet the RCS of 2 external GBU-31/10's would be a notional addition to expected contact range. Is there a stealthy centerline bag to carry extra fuel like the gun pod?


The increased RCS of 4-AMRAAM's would be great and offers a considerable amount of drag.............not good in a Air Superiority Mission.


Also, while the initial Blk of F-35's will only carry 4-AAM's internally. That will quickly be supplemented by six on Blk 5.


BTW Its likely the capability to carry 6-AAM's internally will be back-fitted to early blocks soon after its introduced.......as a matter of fact you can count on it. :wink:
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wrightwing

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 11:42

deadseal wrote:Has there been an issue with AMRAAM fins falling off in flight?
Yes. Weapons fail all the time. Much like any mechanical device. You never shoot once and turn away.


So there has been a AMRAAM with a fin fall off then? Or are you just grabbing at straws?
Last edited by wrightwing on 12 Jul 2010, 11:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 11:47

geogen wrote:But that is an assumption being gambled on, 8 yrs out, when we don't yet have a proven, mature concept - given the all-new-aircraft approach vs evolved approach - to even base those extremely hypothetical assumptions on! It just seems incredibly reckless, mis-calculated and irresponsible, I'm sorry.

Perhaps what will speak louder will be any observed greater intent by partners and potential FMS customers to delay orders accordingly to ensure a mature block IV delivery (1-2 yr delay), with expected minimal requirements enabling the envisioned baseline 5th gen advantages, such as: improved crypto upgrades, ICP upgrade for improved comms, Power/Thermal management modifications, streaming video/pointer/ moving target ID w/SAR upgrades, wideband COM infrastructure additions, and additional sensor integration expected for the block IV? (potential IOC with Partners by 2019-2020?)


What upgraded have been funded on the competition, that will be equal or superior in the time frame we're talking about? The very first F-35s(even the Block II) will have AESA/EOTS/EODAS/advanced ESM/ECM/VLO, and greater situational awareness.
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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 11:54

deadseal wrote:
Sounds like your saying its a multi role fighter!


That's precisely what it is.
I see the first block carrying only 4 missiles and remaining stealthy

It'll only be a couple of years after the initial Blocks come out till they can carry 6 missiles internally, and the earlier blocks will be upgraded to the latest standard. Remember- that's 6 missiles on a VLO aircraft that can engage targets before they even know something's there.

...that is not very many but hell...what can the rcs pricetag be of 4 more missiles hanging when they are pointing down your intake


It'd be better than the competition, but it'd no longer be VLO. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on the mission, but not the load out you'd be flying over unsanitized airspace with.
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deadseal

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 19:40

wrightwing wrote:
deadseal wrote:Has there been an issue with AMRAAM fins falling off in flight?
Yes. Weapons fail all the time. Much like any mechanical device. You never shoot once and turn away.


So there has been a AMRAAM with a fin fall off then? Or are you just grabbing at straws?


wow...ok you win....amraams work 100% of the time and have never ever failed in flight. If your talking about the original post the example was to highlight mechanical failure of a weapon. Please read and/or understand before you accuse someone of "grasping at straws"javascript:emoticon(':oops:'). If you truly believe that the amraam is a magic missile and works everytime...please reference the 422 test evaluation and realize that the USAF does not assume this(and rightly so). Thats why there is BFM :) when your 9x fuze fails and zings right past him its time for guns. Maybe you drive a honda and thats why you assume all mechanical devices work for ever?
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deadseal

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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 19:45

wrightwing wrote:
deadseal wrote:
Sounds like your saying its a multi role fighter!


That's precisely what it is.
I see the first block carrying only 4 missiles and remaining stealthy

It'll only be a couple of years after the initial Blocks come out till they can carry 6 missiles internally, and the earlier blocks will be upgraded to the latest standard. Remember- that's 6 missiles on a VLO aircraft that can engage targets before they even know something's there.

...that is not very many but hell...what can the rcs pricetag be of 4 more missiles hanging when they are pointing down your intake





It'd be better than the competition, but it'd no longer be VLO. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on the mission, but not the load out you'd be flying over unsanitized airspace with.


is your callsign captain obvious perchance? no sh*t its a multi role fighter. dude SARCASM. Your killing me here Unsanitized airspace? thats the whole point....4 missiles for an OCA sweep? are you kidding me? that is the point of the discussion which some other dude already answered. I think you.......oh jesus never mind....see moniter, this is restraint.
cheers
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Unread post12 Jul 2010, 19:57

deadseal wrote:is your callsign captain obvious perchance? no sh*t its a multi role fighter. dude SARCASM. Your killing me here Unsanitized airspace? thats the whole point....4 missiles for an OCA sweep? are you kidding me? that is the point of the discussion which some other dude already answered. I think you.......oh jesus never mind....see moniter, this is restraint.
cheers



Too funny to resist, my apologies.
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Unread post13 Jul 2010, 00:29

Here! Take this Cap'n Bleedin' Obvious: :twisted: (for da turtles to crawl under) :cheers:
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Unread post13 Jul 2010, 02:01

“I'm not Captain Oblivious.”
~ Captain Obvious on Captain Oblivious

"This guy's observational skills are absolutely impeccable.”
~ Captain Sarcasm on Captain Obvious

“Captain Obvious tends to confuse things”
~ Captain Understatement on Captain Obvious

“What the hell is going on?!?”
~ Captain Obvious

:cheers:

OL
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wrightwing

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Unread post13 Jul 2010, 11:29

deadseal wrote:
wow...ok you win....amraams work 100% of the time and have never ever failed in flight. If your talking about the original post the example was to highlight mechanical failure of a weapon. Please read and/or understand before you accuse someone of "grasping at straws"javascript:emoticon(':oops:'). If you truly believe that the amraam is a magic missile and works everytime...please reference the 422 test evaluation and realize that the USAF does not assume this(and rightly so). Thats why there is BFM :) when your 9x fuze fails and zings right past him its time for guns. Maybe you drive a honda and thats why you assume all mechanical devices work for ever?


Where did I say they work 100% of the time? You mentioned a specific event of fins falling off, yet provided no source/statistics/etc.... I'd wager that the vast majority of the time, if there's a problem with the weapon, it's electronic, engine issue, or failure to release properly. Assuming that the missile is functioning correctly, it still has to be fired within its envelope to ensure a good probability of kill. I don't disagree that guns are an important back up plan, but was just questioning the frequency that weapons were falling apart, while attached to an aircraft.
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wrightwing

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Unread post13 Jul 2010, 11:38

deadseal wrote:

Unsanitized airspace? thats the whole point....4 missiles for an OCA sweep? are you kidding me? that is the point of the discussion which some other dude already answered. I think you.......oh jesus never mind....see moniter, this is restraint.
cheers


4 AMRAAMS(or Meteors) at IOC. 6 shortly thereafter(and possibly more when JDRADM comes online). Unsanitized meaning double digit SAMs. Presumably the F-22s and F-15Cs would be the primary means of sanitizing the airspace of enemy fighters(not because the F-35 isn't capable, but so it can focus on taking out ground threats). You don't seem to make a distinction in tactics between a VLO aircraft w/ 4-6 missiles, and a non-stealthy one. The VLO aircraft is going to be able to dictate the terms of engagements. If the F-35 has to use guns, then the pilot isn't flying very smart(or he's slipping in unannounced).
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deadseal

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Unread post13 Jul 2010, 21:12

Sigh. You dont get and i ain't gonna waste 3.69 minutes of my life chewing you out. All i'll say is read the thread. Much like listening, don't just wait for your turn to talk. Your only excuse now is that you don't speak english and therefore are a russian spy and we should have traded you back, but they probobly didn't want you anyway.
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wrightwing

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Unread post14 Jul 2010, 00:02

deadseal wrote:Sigh. You dont get and i ain't gonna waste 3.69 minutes of my life chewing you out. All i'll say is read the thread. Much like listening, don't just wait for your turn to talk. Your only excuse now is that you don't speak english and therefore are a russian spy and we should have traded you back, but they probobly didn't want you anyway.


Here's the BLUF- not too long after F-35s enter service, they'll carry 6 AAMs internally(and likely more when the JDRADMs enter service). They're also likely to have stealthy pods for additional external missiles. You're hung up on the IOC capability, rather than what a typical F-35's going to look like for the vast majority of its career. Most F-35 foes won't know what hit them, as they'll be engaged from BVR, outside their(the foe) detection range. If a missile doesn't work, then they'll fire one of the other missiles. It's not as if the plan is to merge, unless it's unavoidable. The plan is to stay outside detection ranges, and fly to the strengths of the F-35 using its situational awareness advantages.
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