External hardpoints on JSF, and HARM carriage

KarimAbdoun · by **KarimAbdoun** » 22 May 2004, 09:24

I was wondering wether if the wings of the JSF can be loaded with weapons like in the Raptor?
And was wondering if the JSF can carry a HARM, and where could it be carried, ain't the bay door too small?

Wildcat · by **Wildcat** » 22 May 2004, 10:31

Yes, the F-35 will have hardpoints under the wings for missions that do not require its full stealthiness. Probably four like the Raptor, but I'm not sure about that.

As the F-35 will replace F-16s, I think it will be able to carry all the weapons F-16s can carry, though perhaps the HARM will no longer be the anti-radar weapon of choice when the F-35 enters service. So far I haven't read anything about the HARM capacity of the F-35, but like you I guess the weapon bay must be too small.

KarimAbdoun · by **KarimAbdoun** » 22 May 2004, 14:00

So far I haven't read about a new ARM

f16I · by **f16I** » 22 May 2004, 14:50

No me neither. Seeing as the HARM is the daddy of all ARM missiles can't see why F-35's would go into combat without it.

Phoenix · by **Phoenix** » 23 May 2004, 15:38

GBUs, maybe? They can be carried in the internal weapons bays and if you get close enough to launch them (which shouldn't be that much of a problem with stealth), they'll alert the enemy a lot less than a HARM.

f16I · by **f16I** » 23 May 2004, 20:21

A far comment but using GBU's you would need to know the location of a threat radar and then to take it out get close enough to use a GBU, I no if I was in a situation like that I would rather locate and shoot with the HARMS range than risk it with a bomb drop.

aggressor267 · by **aggressor267** » 24 May 2004, 04:05

Yeah , but as long as there is some sort of reciever like the HTS pod which locates the threat then those coordinates get passed onto say the JDAM which glides to the SAM. Current F-16 Wild Weasel unit use a mixture of Harms, Mavericks and JDAMs to carry out there SEAD missions

O.T.

KarimAbdoun · by **KarimAbdoun** » 24 May 2004, 15:58

GBU? If you want to hit a SAM launcher and be sure you get it, I would hit it with a HARM. Last time I checked it had an effectiveness rate (or a mission capable rate, can't remember) of 98%, ... higher than a GBU.

FlightTestJim · by **FlightTestJim** » 24 May 2004, 16:39

The mission capable rate of the HARM may be above 90%, but the effectiveness rate for a HARM is certainly way below 98%. The advantage of the GBU is the ground radar transmitter doesn't have to be operating to kill it, so long as you know longitude/latitude/altitude of the threat emitter. For high probability of a kill, the HARM really needs an actively transmitted radar beam to hone in on, and travel down to the emitter. Modern radar operators don't leave their radar emitters on and transmitting any longer than absolutely necessary (there's also a SIGNIT reason for this quick on, quick off procedure).

aggressor267 · by **aggressor267** » 24 May 2004, 16:51

It's not the accuracy, but lethality. I had this conversation with a pilot once about why they carry one maverick and one harm and he told me that for one, a harm has a small warhead so all it is gonna do is take out the radar dish that is transmitting. That is suppression, you have suppressed their capability to lock on until they get a new radar but the sams are still there. Next they will then proceed to put the maverick or JDAM on the actual SAMS, since they are not always right next to the dish. This is Destruction of enemy air defence. Completely eliminating the threat. It all really depends on the threat and how the head honcho wants go about handling them.

IMO, the F-35 will be capable to carry what ever mission gets thrown at it. When the Air Force chose the F-16 to carry out the Wild Weasel mission, this was laughed at and the phrase YGBSM carried over. It was thought that the Viper could not handle the tasking since it was basically used as a flying pylon to carry 2 more HARMS for the F-4 when squadrons in Germany that flew both the F-4's and F-16's in the same squadrons.

O.T.

elp · by **elp** » 24 May 2004, 17:36

Yes in its non-stealth mode the JSF will carry all kinds of external stores- ( once big-SAMs and the enemy air force are beaten down, it's bomb truck time ).

Remember also- SEAD / DEAD isn't just the HARM either: It is many team players. Big SAMs, fixed facilities that support them, C3 etc. are going to get hit by a variety of weapons not just HARM. JASSM and JASSM-ER would not be out of the question for very special targets including S-300 / 400 SAMs. ( JASSM and Tomahawk and SLAM-ER can now be retargeted on the fly ), combine that with decoys, ECM / spoofing, JSOW, SLAM-ER, JDAM, SDB, WCMD ( CBU-105 ( SFW "skeets" ). and things should be well managed.

My favorite door kicker for this work with the above team will be F-22s with SDB and JDAM-35 ( BLU-110 penetrator ( 1000lb ) ), After that my next fav would be EA-45 and A-45 UCAV with the same weps.

HARM or any ARM is important but it is just one player on a big team ( well trained people, sensor/support aircraft of all varieties, and the shooters.)

Wildcat · by **Wildcat** » 24 May 2004, 20:34

In my last post, I wrote that the HARM might not be the AR weapon of choice when the JSF enters service, because I thought about what the French Air Force plans about SEAD: they state that more and more precision bombs will be used instead of AR missiles to destroy enemy radars. Modern radar receivers are precise enough to locate a ground radar and give accurate enough coordinates to feed a GPS/INS guided bomb computer. Using that kind of weapon would be cheaper than using a HARM, and it would ensure that the ground radar is destroyed even if the it stops emitting.

So I guess the USAF may be on the same track, as the USA are the pioneers and leaders about the use of GPS/INS guided munitions.

bring_it_on1 · by **bring_it_on1** » 25 May 2004, 14:23

the f-35 can and in most cases carry external stores unless during stealthy complimenting 1-2 day of war missions where it would go with internal stores and fuel.....

A BIGGER VERSION OF THIS PIC IS ON

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... eapons.pdf

aggressor267 · by **aggressor267** » 25 May 2004, 15:09

f16I,

check out this article:

http://www.afa.org/magazine/perspective ... easels.asp

I know this thread is about the F-35 and if it will carry HARMs, but this article covers what I was saying about the HARMS.

O.T.

bring_it_on1 · by **bring_it_on1** » 26 May 2004, 10:01

well that article is quite informative...but I think the jsf will certainly carry the HARM...it may not use it against mobile and small sams but still it is useful cuz even if the emissions are turned off then it still guides itself to the point of the last emission....this however wont be that good against smaller..more mobile sam launchers and radars. which our near term enemies pocess a lot of...i guess the jdam with diamond back kit is a good option..