AH-64 vs Mi-24

Helicopters and tilt-rotor aircraft
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Bushmaster78FS

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Unread post15 Jun 2010, 00:16

Once I graduate, in my next unit, I will go to my AVIM Armt shop and get myself a nice clean monocle, I'd probably manufacture it myself if they'd let me. I know that is not going to help a lot but better than the crappy scratched ones that get pooped on in the aircraft all the time.
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falcon17

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Unread post16 Mar 2012, 05:28

I know I'm really late to the party on this one but I still would like to express my $0.02. If you absolutely positively must compare a hind to an apache then use the MI-35M (AH-2 sabre in brazil) for your comparison since the MI-35M is basically a new machine with a more advanced avionics suite. But honestly the real aircraft to use for your comparison is the MI-28 since its more of a dedicated attack chopper.
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Unread post17 Mar 2012, 21:21

Like the multiple variants of the Mi-24/35 there are multiple variants of the AH-64. The AH-64A has almost been replaced in US service as the airframes are upgraded to D standards. Block I and Block AH-64D aircraft are being sent back to Boeing and upgraded to Block III. Block III represents a considerable boost in performance and capabilities from your standard Block I/II aircraft. So what do we want to compare?
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indochina

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Unread post15 Feb 2013, 08:00

AH-64D Block III as AH-64E
The Army has scheduled a news conference for Wednesday to announce that from that day on, the Block III version of Boeing Co.’s AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter will instead be designated the AH-64E. Program officials will make the announcement at this year’s annual meeting of the Association of the United States Army, the largest yearly meeting of top service and industry officials.

The Army decided to replace “AH-64D Block III” with “AH-64E” after the Defense Acquisition Board, a high-level Pentagon committee, approved full rate production in August. The Army, which plans to buy 690 AH-64Es, decided the new designation is warranted because the soon-to-be “Echo” model of the Apache has so much more capability than the AH-64D Block I’s and Block II’s it’s replacing, the first of which came into service in 1997.

The AH-64E, the first of which was rolled out last year, has a better drivetrain and a composite rotor that makes it fly both better and 25 knots faster than the Block II. It boasts improved open architecture avionics that will ease the way for future improvements. It also has the optional ability to control the sensors and flight of an unmanned aircraft.

It’s still too early to say what the Taliban might dub the AH-64E or whether insurgents will find it scarier than the AH-64D Block II, whose crew can target and kill enemies from miles away, day or night, using a 30mm chain gun that can fire 640 rounds a minute, Hellfire missiles of both the laser- and radar-guided varieties, and unguided Hydra 70 2.75-inch rockets. A radio intercept during a firefight in Afghanistan last year revealed that the Taliban know even the AH-64D Block II as “The Monster.”


Specifications

General characteristics

Crew: 2 (pilot, and co-pilot/gunner)
Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft 0 in (14.63 m)
Height: 12.7 ft (3.87 m)
Disc area: 1,809.5 ft² (168.11 m²)
Empty weight: 11,387 lb (5,165 kg)
Loaded weight: 17,650 lb (8,000 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701 and later upgraded to T700-GE-701C (1990–present) & T700-GE-701D (AH-64E) turboshafts, -701: 1,690 shp, ?701C: 1,890 shp, ?701D: 2,000 shp (-701: 1,260 kW, ?701C: 1,490 kW, ?701D: 1,490 kW) each
Fuselage length: 49 ft 5 in (15.06 m)
Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor, 4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment

Performance

Never exceed speed: 197 knots (227 mph, 365 km/h)
Maximum speed: 158 knots (182 mph, 293 km/h)
Cruise speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h)
Range: 257 nmi (295 mi, 476 km) with Longbow radar mast
Combat radius: 260 nmi (300 mi, 480 km)
Ferry range: 1,024 nmi (1,180 mi, 1,900 km)
Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m) minimum loaded
Rate of climb: 2,500 ft/min (12.7 m/s)
Disc loading: 9.80 lb/ft² (47.9 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (0.31 kW/kg)

Armament

Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds as part of the Area Weapon Subsystem
Hardpoints: Four pylon stations on the stub wings. Longbows also have a station on each wingtip for an AIM-92 ATAS twin missile pack.[58][236]
Rockets: Hydra 70 70 mm, and CRV7 70 mm air-to-ground rockets
Missiles: Typically AGM-114 Hellfire variants; AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried.

Avionics

Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar[237] (Note: can only be mounted on the AH-64D)

The Mi-28N and Kamov Ka-50 are competing to fulfil the Russian Army Aviation requirement for a night-capable anti-tank helicopter, a replacement to the Mi-24 created 25 years ago. The Mi-28N is based on the Mi-28A, a daylight helicopter first flown in December 1982. In comparison with the AH-64D Longbow Apache, the 10,5-ton Mi-28N is some 2.5 tons heavier, partly due to its more powerful cannon. In general the two helicopters have similar flight performance. Two Klimov TV-3-117 engines of 2,200 hp each allow the Russian aircraft to show a maximum level speed of 300 km/h and maximum climb at sea-level of 13.6 meters per second.

Ka-50/52

Specifications

Data for Ka-50, differences for Ka-52 noted.
General characteristics

Crew: One (for Ka-52: two)
Length: 16.0 m (52 ft 6 in)
Rotor diameter: 14.5 m (47 ft 7 in)
Height: 4.93 m (16 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 330.3 m² (3,555 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,700 kg (17,000 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,800 kg (21,600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 10,800 kg (23,810 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Klimov TV3-117VK turboshafts, 1,641 kW (2,200 shp) each
For Ka-52:
Loaded weight: 10,400 kg (22,930 lb)

Performance

Never exceed speed: 350 km/h (189 knots, 217 mph) in dive
Maximum speed: 315 km/h (170 knots, 196 mph) in level flight
Cruise speed: 270 km/h (146 knots, 168 mph)
Range: 545 km (339 miles)
Ferry range: 1,160 km (720 mi) with 4 drop tanks
Service ceiling: 5,500 m (18,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 10 m/s (32.8 ft/s)
Disc loading: 30 kg/m² (6 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.33 kW/kg (0.20 hp/lb)

Armament

1x mobile semi-rigid 30 mm Shipunov 2A42 cannon (460 rounds total, dual feeding AP or HE-Frag)
A variety of payloads on the four under-wing hardpoints, including 23 mm UPK-23-250 gun pods (240 rounds each), 2 x APU-6 Missile racks, able to accommodate a total of 12 9K121 Vikhr anti-tank missiles, Vympel R-73 (NATO: AA-11 Archer) air-to-air missiles, 80 x 80 mm S-8 rockets and 20 x 122 mm S-13 rocket, Kh-25 semi-active laser guided tactical air-to-ground missiles, presumably S-25/S-25L high caliber rockets, 4x 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or 2x 500 kg (1,100 lb) bombs, 500 L (130 US gal) external fuel tanks. Reportedly, twin Igla light air-to-air missile launchers under each wingtip countermeasure pod (total 4 missiles). Maximum total payload 2,000 kg.[29]
Two pods on the wingtips with flare and chaff countermeasure dispensers, 4 UV-26 dispensers each (total 512 chaff/flare cartridges in each pod)


Mi-28N

Specifications

General characteristics

Crew: 1 pilot (rear), 1 navigator/weapons operator (front)
Length: 17.01 m (55 ft 10 in)
Rotor diameter: 17.20 m (56 ft 5 in)
Height: 4.70 m (15 ft 5 in)
Disc area: 232.35 m² (2,501 ft²)
Empty weight: 8,600 kg (18,960 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,700 kg (23,590 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 11,500 kg (25,350 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Klimov TV3-117VMA turboshaft, 1,636 kW (2,194 shp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 320 km/h (172 knots, 199 mph)
Cruise speed: 270 km/h (145 knots, 168 mph)
Range: 435 km (234 nmi, 270 mi)
Combat radius: 200 km (108 nmi, 124 mi) ; with 10 min loiter and 5% reserves
Ferry range: 1,100 km (593 nmi, 683 mi)
Service ceiling: 5,700 m (19,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 13.6 m/s (2,677 ft/min)

Armament

Guns: 1× chin-mounted 30 mm Shipunov 2A42 cannon with 250 rounds (±110° horizontal fire)
Hardpoints: Two pylons under each stub wing to mount bombs, rockets, missiles, and gun pods. Main armament configurations include:
16 Ataka-V anti-tank missiles and 40 S-8 rockets, Or
16 Ataka-V anti-tank missiles, and 10 S-13 rocket, Or
16 Ataka-V anti-tank missiles, and two 23 mm Gsh-23L gun pods with 250 rounds each.
Other ordnance: 9K118 Sheksna and 9A-2200 anti-tank missiles, 8 Igla-V and Vympel R-73 air-to-air missiles, 2 KMGU-2 mine dispensers

Ka-50 and Mi-28 can work together because they don't do the same job. Ka-50 can take the armor out and Mi-28 can take on anybody else. In some places though Ka-50 and Mi-28 can't work together because Mi-28 can go on far missions while Ka-50 just stays close to the base for protection.

But if Russia does have to pick from the two, it would be the Mi-28 because it has close to what Ka-50 has plus more other combat material. Russia though doesn't have to pick from the two because they have different missions.

Also a good comparesent(spelling) to the Mi-28 is an Apache AH-64. Apache AH-64 is the main Mi-28 opponent. But the Mi-28 outperformce the Apache in many ways. First of all Mi-28 has better weapons and therefore it is better armed.


WZ-10

Role: Attack helicopter
Manufacturer: Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
First flight: 29 April 2003

The WZ-10 is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but is believed to have a secondary air-to-air capability as well. It is being built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC).

Specifications:

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 14.15 m (ft)
Rotor diameter: 13.0 m [4] (ft)
Height: 3.85 m (ft)
Disc area: m² (ft²)
Empty weight: 5540 kg [4] (lb)
Loaded weight: kg (lb)
Useful load: 1500 kg [4] (lb)
Max takeoff weight: 7000 kg (lb)
Powerplant: 2× WZ-9 turboshafts [4], 957 kw (1285 hp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 300+ km/h [4]
Cruise speed: 270+ km/h [4]
Ferry range: 800+ km [4] ()
Service ceiling: 6400 m (ft)
Rate of climb: over 12+ m/s [4] (ft/min)
Disc loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Maximum acceleration: +3 g (29 m/s²)

Armament

Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret
Hardpoints: 4
*Other:
Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
Air-to-surface missiles: Up to 8 ATGM
Air-to-air missiles:
Up to 8 TY-90
Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9

Avionics

YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
YH-96 electronic warfare suite

Eurocopter Tiger EC-665

EC-665 Tiger is the newest helicopter on the world arms market, as of the present time has 206 helicopter Tiger is 4 national order: France, Germany, Spain and Australia.of the 80 Tiger helicopters delivered to the French Army version with 40 units under specialized attack HAP and 40 the rest of under the HAD multitasking version.

PERFORMANCES
Fast cruise speed at MTOW SL
271 km/h
146 kts
Mission duration (standard)
2 h 30 min
Maximum endurance with external fuel tank
5 h 00 min
Max range “armed” with standard fuel tanks 400 nm 740 km
Max range “not armed” with external fuel tanks 610 nm 1,130 km

FLIGHT ENVELOPE
Operating temperature
- 30°C to ISA + 35°C
Service ceiling -500 m to 4000 m -1,640 ft to 13,123 ft

Gyro stabilized Roof Mounted Sight (RMS) MissionsMissions

TV camera (3 FoV),
Thermal imager (3 FoV + electronic Zoom),
Laser range finder,
Laser designator,
Laser spot tracker, up to 4 targets automatic tracker.
Steered in azimuth (+/- 120°) and elevation (+40°/-25°).

Helmet-Mounted Sight/Displays (HMSD) MissionsMissions

Pilot’s and Gunner’s
Piloting and firing symbology.
Slaving function,either with RMS or with 30 mm turret-mounted gun.

Missions
Digital Map Generator

System EUROGRID
Map display
Battlefield management system


IFF Transponder / Interrogator

HF/Datalink

Topographical maps,
IFR charts,
Mission overlays,
Presentation of target photos,
Recording and display of IR/TV sensor images of Gunner sight,
MissionsTarget hand-over,
Radio data link managements,
Handling of mission data.

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Maxi Take-Off Weight (MTOW) - ISA, SL
6,600 kg
14,553 lb
Engine 2 x MTR 390 - Step 1-5
1,092 kW
1,464 shp
Super contingency power (OEI)
1,322 kW 1,774 shp
Standard fuel capacity
1,105 kg 2,435 lb
Standard fuel capacity + external fuel tanks 1,689 kg 3,723 lb

Armament

Guns:
1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30 cannon in chin turret, with up to 450 rounds.

On each of its two inner hardpoints and two outer hardpoints the Eurocopter Tiger can carry a combination of the following weapons:

Inner hardpoints:
1x 20 mm (0.787 in) autocannon pods, or
22x 68 mm (2.68 in) SNEB unguided rockets in a pod, or
19x 70 mm (2.75 in) Hydra 70 unguided rockets in a pod or
4x AGM-114 Hellfire missiles (Australia/France) or
4x Spike-ER missiles (Spain) or
4x PARS 3 LR missiles (Germany) or
4x HOT3 missiles (Germany)
Outer hardpoints:
2x Mistral air-to-air missiles, or
12x 68 mm (2.68 in) SNEB unguided rockets in a pod or
7x 70 mm (2.75 in) Hydra 70 unguided rockets in a pod

T-129 & A-129

Variants

T-129 (AgustaWestland AW729) Turkish attack helicopter based on the A129 International. It will be built and assembled by TAI in Turkey. The first 30 will be TUC-1, with the following aircraft will be TUC-2.

T-129 TUC-1 will have an indigenous mission computer, indigenous EW and countermeasures, Aselsan AselFLIR-300, Thales helmet-mounted cueing system,[28] and a foreign missile (either Hellfire II or Spike ER).

T-129 TUC-2 will have an indigenous mission computer, indigenous EW and countermeasures, Aselsan AselFLIR-300, Aselsan AVCI helmet-mounted cueing system, Roketsan UMTAS missile, and Roketsan Cirit Laser guided 70 mm (2.75 in) rocket.

Specifications (A129)

General characteristics

Crew: 2: pilot and weapon systems officer
Length: 12.28 m (40 ft 3 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 1 in)
Height: 3.35 m (11 ft 0 in)
Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,530 kg (5,575 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 4,600 kg (10,140 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D (license built by Piaggio) turboshafts, 664 kW (890 shp) each
Rotor systems: 4 blades on main rotor

Performance

Maximum speed: 278 km/h (148 knots, 170 mph)
Cruise speed: 229 km/h (135 knots, 155 mph)
Range: 510 km (275 nm, 320 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nm, 620 mi)
Service ceiling: 4,725 m (15,500 ft)
Rate of climb: 10.2 m/s (2,025 ft/min)

Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M197 three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds) in a TM197B Light Turreted Gun System(only CBT version)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm machine gun-pod
Missiles:
8× AGM-114 Hellfire or BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles
4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral anti-aircraft missiles

The TAI/AgustaWestland T-129 (AgustaWestland designation AW729) is an attack helicopter currently under development for the Turkish Army. An enhanced version of the Agusta A129 Mangusta, the T-129's development is now the responsibility of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), with AgustaWestland as the primary partner.


Specifications (T-129)

General characteristics

Crew: 2: pilot and co-pilot/gunner
Length: 14.6 m (47 ft 11 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft²)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor

Performance

Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)

Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun-pod
Missiles:
8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, Roketsan Cirit anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles
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discofishing

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Unread post16 Feb 2013, 01:01

indochina,

Please create a new thread for additional comparisons. This thread needs to stick to the topic of "AH-64 vs Mi-24"
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KarimAbdoun

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Unread post06 Mar 2014, 01:05

Mi-35 is a beast though. Ive loved the Soviet idea of merging transport capabilities of the Mi-8/17 into the Mi-24 series. To have both seems logical and to do them so well is a hats off idea. Instead of having the need to send two aircraft, one can do the job.
The fighter is not what counts, it's the one who's flying it that matters!
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