F-14 Tomcat Panel Discussion with Mig Killers

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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f-16adf

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Unread post06 Aug 2018, 20:28

Here is a very interesting video about the F-14 Tomcat, by three men who flew it. Panelists are U.S. Naval aviators Larry “Music” Muczynski and Hermon “Munster” Cook, joined by former Iranian Air Force F-14 pilot Asad Adeli.


All three give really good info. Adeli is the Iranian pilot who "supposedly" shot down 3 Migs with one Phoenix. (I guess he did?? :shock: ) His plane was also damaged by an Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrum's missile that struck his radome very late in the war.

Hermon Cook flew the Tomcat, Hornet, A-4, and F-16. He tells of his Mig kill, AWG-9 PD range, and about the jet generally being G limited to a point (1:30:27).


Larry Muczynski discusses his 1981 Fitter kill. It turns out he did hit 10.2G on the debris pull up (I never said he didn't, I said that 2 out of 3 sources said he didn't, turns out they were wrong). Also talks about some tricks he used in ACM vs other jets.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f5pmrePuQw
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mixelflick

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Unread post09 Aug 2018, 16:17

That was a fascinating panel discussion, thank you!

The story of the F-14 firing a Hawk missile at 2 Mig-29's, then the Mig's returning fire was incredible. One of their missiles took off his nosecone and the debris killed his right engine, yet he still made it back to base! I also found it interesting the panel moderator cited the fact an F-14 shot down a Mig-29! First I'd heard of that, wonder if Tom Cooper (or anyone here) could confirm/the details?

The F-14 still looks bada$$ today, outstanding design. Too bad the TF-30's so hamstrung its earlier days. Still, all 3 of these gentlemen flew the F-14A, and it scored victories over...

1.) Mig-21's
2.) Mig-23's
3.) Mig-25's
4.) Mig-29's
5.) SU-22's

Phenomenal record. I'd love to see it live to fight another day. Allegedly the Iranians have 20 or so still flying, some with a Phoenix clone and more up to date missiles. The AWG-9 is ancient by now though, albeit in her day ridiculously powerful. Like "Music" said, it was the first track while scan radar capable of multiple simultaneous engagements.

Does anyone know why Iran never opted for Sukhoi's like the SU-27, or even considered later models like the SU-30SM or SU-35? I'd think if they needed an F-14 replacement, that'd be their best bet. Big, carries lots of gas and certainly more maneuverable. But it's a sobering thought that the AWG-9/Phoenix combination represent better BVR capability vs. what many Flankers today fly with. I keep hearing about all these supposed ultra long range AAM's they're working on, but have never seen them even carried in practice.

Legendary bird the F-14. To think they're still flying in 2018 is... amazing.
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f-16adf

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Unread post09 Aug 2018, 17:22

I think Iran could not purchase any combat jets, let alone Flankers, because of the sanctions.



I must say, I believe Top Gun was a remarkably corny movie (throw it in the garbage bin along with the Iron Eagle movies). The best scene out of TG was the opening carrier cat shots.


Final Countdown (1980) used VF-84 Jolly Rogers jets. Beautiful paint scheme (looked a bit better on the F-4 though :)), before the low viz grey became the standard.
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Unread post10 Aug 2018, 13:18

If it's true they can't buy any fighters due to sanctions (and it sounds like it is), what are they going to do? Keep flying 50 year old F-14's and even older F-4's/F-5's? The Mig-29 sounds like its their newest jet, and those are getting long in the tooth too. The way this Iraqi pilot talked, he had no desire to fly it..

Oh wait, they have their own little "stealth" fighter, don't they? That thing fly yet, LOL. Seriously, they're going to get creamed by any US/Israeli force. I think their only hope is the S-300 which I believe they took delivery of not long ago. A good case for F-35A's and B's plus B-2's to knock the door down, then Iran gets blanketed by F-15's, 16's and 18's. Not sure if the A-10 will make an appearance (probably not) but you never know.

I rather think F-15E's are going to have a field day blasting those nuclear sights. Or perhaps B-52's/B-1's once the SAM threat is gone.
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lrrpf52

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Unread post23 Aug 2018, 19:10

The only thing that was barely realistic or relevant to air combat in Top Gun was in the opening scene when Maverick coordinates with Cougar on how they'll set up for an approach, then Goose says he'll clean 'em and fry 'em.

The rest of the movie was complete disinformation focused on dogfights, as if they are something to be sought and entered into on purpose.

Of course, it would have been boring for "mom and pop in Oklahoma" to sit and watch pilots and RIOs using brevity codes to set up best angles for BVR and high speed closures within WEZ and NEZ, with quick egresses.

Same thing for all the school shots. Can't show much perspective in the air out over the ocean or Fallon at high altitude, so everything had to be done mostly at low altitude to excite movie-goers.

It did have the best weapons effects of any fighter movie, simply because of the professionalism and expertise of the director, camera crews, and special effects construction of the large target models, and how they suspended them on the crane and filmed the pyrotechnic events simulating missile impact.
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Unread post23 Aug 2018, 20:02

Of course, it would have been boring for "mom and pop in Oklahoma"


We okies are generally bored with anything except for $ex and cold beer....

....and would have some difficulty spelling WEZ and NEZ. :D
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Unread post24 Aug 2018, 19:31

outlaw162 wrote:
Of course, it would have been boring for "mom and pop in Oklahoma"


We okies are generally bored with anything except for $ex and cold beer....

....and would have some difficulty spelling WEZ and NEZ. :D

Through the filming of the movie, the director and producers were talking about how "mom and pop" in Oklahoma wouldn't understand all that fighter pilot stuff, and since they knew the movie business, they were right.

They needed to include a basic story line, boy meets girl, boy wins the fight after a personal struggle, good guy dies, final battle scene.

If the movie had been built for aviation buffs only, it would have yielded far less box office earnings and would be rather obscure. Instead, it became an iconic cultural phenomenon, as well as a massive recruiting bonanza for the Navy.

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