2 of The Last Remaining F-4 Phantom II's at AirVenture 2016

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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militaryattractions

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Unread post18 Mar 2017, 07:51



At the time of this video there were only 21 remaining F-4 Phantom's in US Military service. Both aircraft had been converted into QF-4 target drones and were subsequently destroyed in the proceeding months.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post18 Mar 2017, 15:22

Love that sound.
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f-16adf

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Unread post18 Mar 2017, 22:00

Not too many people are aware of the F-4B,C,D and the RF-4B/C J79's sounding similar to the F-104's howl. The F-4E,F,J and the F-104S had the -10 and the -17 engines that really didn't howl at all.

And a couple of RF-4B's may of had the -10's.




Here are a couple of North Dakota ANG F-4D's:

Check this out at :32 mark-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC4elTPvsgY




And some Spanish RF-4C's:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_ZadruwIQ



Dear Lord, it's the 1980's all over again for me-
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militaryattractions

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Unread post19 Mar 2017, 09:40

f-16adf wrote:Not too many people are aware of the F-4B,C,D and the RF-4B/C J79's sounding similar to the F-104's howl. The F-4E,F,J and the F-104S had the -10 and the -17 engines that really didn't howl at all.

And a couple of RF-4B's may of had the -10's.




Here are a couple of North Dakota ANG F-4D's:

Check this out at :32 mark-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC4elTPvsgY




And some Spanish RF-4C's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_ZadruwIQ



Dear Lord, it's the 1980's all over again for me-


You seem to really know your stuff when it comes to F-4 Phantoms! Can you tell me anymore about these two aircraft based on their appearance and numbering?

Here's a better pic that shows the two of them together. (not mine)

Image
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f-16adf

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Unread post19 Mar 2017, 21:52

The F-4E in SEA camo, serial no. 74-1638 was a late model version with TISEO (in the leading edge of the left wing). It looks like it was accepted at AMARC on 5 October 1990. The other jet's numbers are 73-1167, and was accepted at AMARC on 27 June 1990.

The E version had a solid state pulse radar, internal gun, leading edge slats, more powerful -17 engines, and it was the definitive USAF version.
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Unread post21 Mar 2017, 02:42

f-16adf wrote:Not too many people are aware of the F-4B,C,D and the RF-4B/C J79's sounding similar to the F-104's howl. The F-4E,F,J and the F-104S had the -10 and the -17 engines that really didn't howl at all.


The unique sound of the 104 at certain power settings was due to the airflow into and around the engine, not to the engine type itself. The following link has a good explanation of this:

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Q&A.htm

This link has a good example of the engine howl during run up. I don't remember the F-4s having a similar sound.

http://aviationphotodigest.com/lockheed ... ne-run-up/
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Unread post21 Mar 2017, 14:33

Here is a ND ANG F-4D, it howls pretty similar to the -104:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6pKVlLCnSU


The other videos that I posted do clearly show J79-15's howling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC4elTPvsgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_ZadruwIQ




The F-104S (single seat Italian version didn't howl) it had a different engine (just like F-4E/J which did not howl). Their TF'-104s did-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EHYUq7IRvA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ePJKaPBxM


In fact the F-104S low pitch hum sounds very similar to E,F, and J model Phantoms.




From 78-90, ANG F-4C and D Phantoms would howl on their turn to final (right over my house). I remember the sound vividly.
Last edited by f-16adf on 21 Mar 2017, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post21 Mar 2017, 20:02

alfakilo wrote:
The unique sound of the 104 at certain power settings was due to the airflow into and around the engine, not to the engine type itself. The following link has a good explanation of this:

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Q&A.htm

This link has a good example of the engine howl during run up. I don't remember the F-4s having a similar sound.

http://aviationphotodigest.com/lockheed ... ne-run-up/


Thanks Andy - are you referring to the high pitched whiney / ghostly sound in flight - you flew the F-104G didn't you?
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alfakilo

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Unread post21 Mar 2017, 22:39

basher54321 wrote:Thanks Andy - are you referring to the high pitched whiney / ghostly sound in flight - you flew the F-104G didn't you?


Yes, the G at Luke, 1976 to 1980.

The howl that we all referred to was the pre-takeoff engine run up procedure that we would do just before releasing the brakes. Nothing like listening to a four ship doing the run ups together, now that was something that the whole base could hear!!

I also flew the F-4 C, D and E...I'm sure these made nifty sounds too, I just don't recall any of us at the time making mention of it like we did about the 104.

The previous poster put up a video showing a scramble...that brought back some fine memories of sitting Zulu alert at Soesterberg in the F-4E.
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Unread post21 Mar 2017, 23:54

alfakilo, that's awesome!

Not trying to change the subject. But what were your general impressions from going to the E model from C/D? How did the slatted F-4E perform within visual range?

I apologize for all the questions, but I have been a Phantom fan since I was kid.
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Unread post22 Mar 2017, 00:05

f-16adf wrote:Phantom fan

Don't you mean "Phantom Phan?".
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Unread post22 Mar 2017, 00:18

f-16adf wrote: But what were your general impressions from going to the E model from C/D? How did the slatted F-4E perform within visual range?


Opinions about relative performance are just that...opinions. Sometimes, these opinions are based on fact, sometimes they are not. I personally think that there has been more BS and bartalk about the F-104 than any other fighter. More likely than not, this was loose talk by folks who had not flown the jet and were just running off their mouths.

When it came to the F-4, the guys that I knew who were experienced in the jet had good things to say. Each model type had its good points and maybe-not-so-good points. For example, guys liked the F-4E hard wing over the slatted model because it accelerated faster. The slatted F-4 was more forgiving on the controls, but those advantages were not significant to the guys who knew how to fly the jet to its max potential. Also, many guys liked the F-4D radar capabilities as compared to the less capable F-4E radar.

But everyone liked the gun!! To get something, you gotta give something.

As for WVR conditions, the slatted F-4 had a slightly better turn radius and rate at speeds below the typical hard wing corner velocity...but this small increase in slower speed performance did not mean the jet could (or should) turn and burn with a MiG-17!!
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Unread post22 Mar 2017, 00:25

Thank you for the response, I very much appreciate it!

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