The downing of Speicher F/A-18: Iraqi perspective Jan 1991

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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knowan

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Unread post10 Mar 2019, 08:45

tomcooper wrote:Who said it was a head-on shot?


An old account I read of the shoot down, I can't find it again, but I guess it was wrong. Thanks for the correction.
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mixelflick

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Unread post10 Mar 2019, 15:02

I'm curious...

How does US intelligence look at Speicher's shoot down? It was the first time since VIetnam a former Soviet designed platform downed a US jet. A more modern, 4th gen jet that was designed after the Foxbat?

A lucky shot? Simply as the result of faulty RWR?? Or was it a failure of the AWACS to validate the Mig-25 as... a Mig-25? Some combination of the three???

I understand US aircraft aren't invincible. Far from it. But it is an anomaly, and undoubtedly studied by those in the know. Personally, I think the AWACS controller was at fault/too slow and in warfare as in life - he who hesitates, is lost. I don't necessarily think Spike's F-18C was over-matched... but it could have been. The Mig-25 has a powerful radar (although reports of this Mig being a trainer would negate that). It's exceptionally fast, much faster than the F-18. But speed wasn't apparently a factor. The Mig got clearance to fire faster than Spike's squadron mates did, and it unfortunately spelled the difference between who lived and who died that day.

Anyway, I wonder what US intelligence (and the Iraqi's) think about it...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post11 Mar 2019, 08:17

mixelflick wrote:I'm curious...

How does US intelligence look at Speicher's shoot down? It was the first time since VIetnam a former Soviet designed platform downed a US jet. A more modern, 4th gen jet that was designed after the Foxbat?

A lucky shot? Simply as the result of faulty RWR?? Or was it a failure of the AWACS to validate the Mig-25 as... a Mig-25? Some combination of the three???

I understand US aircraft aren't invincible. Far from it. But it is an anomaly, and undoubtedly studied by those in the know. Personally, I think the AWACS controller was at fault/too slow and in warfare as in life - he who hesitates, is lost. I don't necessarily think Spike's F-18C was over-matched... but it could have been. The Mig-25 has a powerful radar (although reports of this Mig being a trainer would negate that). It's exceptionally fast, much faster than the F-18. But speed wasn't apparently a factor. The Mig got clearance to fire faster than Spike's squadron mates did, and it unfortunately spelled the difference between who lived and who died that day.

Anyway, I wonder what US intelligence (and the Iraqi's) think about it...



It's not like it was just one Hornet vs one Mig-25. It was a large strike at night with the fog of war....(and everything that goes with it)
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tomcooper

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Unread post11 Mar 2019, 10:41

knowan wrote:
tomcooper wrote:Who said it was a head-on shot?


An old account I read of the shoot down, I can't find it again, but I guess it was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

At the risk of some 'shameless self-advertising', please check the story as told here: F-15C Eagle vs MiG-23/25: Iraq 1991 (Duel).

It's been cross-examined to the bones, until confirmed by multiple participants.

mixelflick wrote:t was the first time since VIetnam a former Soviet designed platform downed a US jet.
Rather: 'first time since Vietnam a US fighter operated by a US military service was shot down by a Soviet-made fighter'.

US-made fighters operated by diverse military services of OTHER countries have been shot down by Soviet-made fighters in multiple other wars (see Iran-Iraq as the best example).

...(although reports of this Mig being a trainer would negate that)...
Once again: please explain me how is a MiG-25PU supposed to deploy an R-40 in combat.

Please somebody - whether you or anybody else - explain me how do you think is that going to ever work?

Or, wouldn't it be far more logical to conclude that somebody there misunderstood an Iraqi? I mean, it's not like that has happened only once.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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mixelflick

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Unread post11 Mar 2019, 15:46

tomcooper wrote:
knowan wrote:
tomcooper wrote:Who said it was a head-on shot?


An old account I read of the shoot down, I can't find it again, but I guess it was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

At the risk of some 'shameless self-advertising', please check the story as told here: F-15C Eagle vs MiG-23/25: Iraq 1991 (Duel).

It's been cross-examined to the bones, until confirmed by multiple participants.

mixelflick wrote:t was the first time since VIetnam a former Soviet designed platform downed a US jet.
Rather: 'first time since Vietnam a US fighter operated by a US military service was shot down by a Soviet-made fighter'.

US-made fighters operated by diverse military services of OTHER countries have been shot down by Soviet-made fighters in multiple other wars (see Iran-Iraq as the best example).

...(although reports of this Mig being a trainer would negate that)...
Once again: please explain me how is a MiG-25PU supposed to deploy an R-40 in combat.

Please somebody - whether you or anybody else - explain me how do you think is that going to ever work?

Or, wouldn't it be far more logical to conclude that somebody there misunderstood an Iraqi? I mean, it's not like that has happened only once.


Well, that's what I'm saying. Since someone here claimed it's a trainer, it has no radar. Therefore couldn't fire the R-40. Unless.... it was an IR homing version?
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tomcooper

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Unread post11 Mar 2019, 19:35

Trainer or no trainer: no way.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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