The MiG-25 and MiG-31 in combat

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 18:29
by mixelflick
Boy I miss these two in combat. Now I know the -25 got waxed in Desert Storm by F-15's and such, and even an F-16CJ took one down over Bosnia. But reading the accounts the put up a hell of a fight, and caused alot of mayhem given breaking up strike packages.

I tend to think the Mig-31 would have been a whole different ball of wax, properly flown if the Iraqi's had them. It's apparently held in high regard by the RAF pilots who've encountered it, and the onboard avionics coupled with the raw, Foxbat like performance would have been a tough customer.

Nobody wants war, but the prospect of F-15's meeting up with Foxhounds is enticing. I suppose much would depend upon AWAC's support etc, but from what I can see it'd be a toss up, particularly BVR...

Unread postPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 23:58
by southernphantom
I have to agree. I almost wonder if the MiG-31 would be more threatening than the Su-30 family. Aircraft employing hit-and-run tactics tend to be far more effective than those that stand and fight, in experience over Syria and Iraq.

Unread postPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 00:03
by mixelflick
My thoughts exactly. The ability to engage/disengage from even the Eagle is concerning...

By one account, Mig-25's eluded an absurd # of F-15's/sparrow shots during Gulf War I. Not sure how AMRAAM would change that equation, but the raw kinematic performance of the Mig-31 coupled with its improved range could be a game changer. One wonders if the Israeli's were thinking the same, when Mig-31's were set to be delivered to Iran/Syria (can't remember which)...

Unread postPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 03:12
by sprstdlyscottsmn
I agree, a MiG-31BM would be a potent addition to any airforce. Powerful radar, datalinking, unparalleled physical performance, payload.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2013, 23:31
by beepa
Mig 31 and Go-Pro....those Russians and their dash cams....enjoy...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10b_1386199300

Re:

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2013, 06:45
by lookieloo
southernphantom wrote:I have to agree. I almost wonder if the MiG-31 would be more threatening than the Su-30 family.
Agreed... the most-ballyhooed Russian types (including the PAK-FA) are Western style with little Western substance; but Mig-31s actually scare me, true examples of what Russia does best. All these small air-forces buying Flankers will be disappointed in their deterrent/military value should the US and its allies come knocking, but a Foxhound equipped force might get its licks in, especially if it can be somehow protected on the ground.

Re: Re:

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 01:35
by mixelflick
lookieloo wrote:
southernphantom wrote:I have to agree. I almost wonder if the MiG-31 would be more threatening than the Su-30 family.
Agreed... the most-ballyhooed Russian types (including the PAK-FA) are Western style with little Western substance; but Mig-31s actually scare me, true examples of what Russia does best. All these small air-forces buying Flankers will be disappointed in their deterrent/military value should the US and its allies come knocking, but a Foxhound equipped force might get its licks in, especially if it can be somehow protected on the ground.


Incredibly insightful, thank you.

If ever I'd like to see an airshow demo, the Foxhound is it. Someone once said it was like 2 F-14's, welded together. Supposedly, they're held in very high regard by the Brits and others. I wonder if they've been dismissed out of hand, due to our Desert Storm/Mig-25 experience.

To do so IMO, would be a grave mistake...

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 02:11
by old.iraqi.air.force
mixelflick wrote:Now I know the -25 got waxed in Desert Storm by F-15's and suc.


The two MIG-25s that shot down in Desert Storm on January 19-1991 was MiG-25RB wasn't PD or PDS the interceptor version, They were on mission to drag the coalition aircraft to the SAM areas not to engage, however on January 30-1991 there is two Iraqi MIG-25PDs piloted by formation leader Capt Mahmoud Awad from 97th squadron of Al-Habbaniyah AB and Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai from 96th squadron Al-Qadisiyah AB, surprised and ambushed two U.S F-15 was in patrol to terminate the Iraqi aircraft trying to fly to Iran, the U.S F-15s were almost bingo fuel and the MIGs knows about that...
Briefly the Iraqi MIG-25PD piloted by Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai hit the U.S F-15 with R-40RD missile.

This was called (Operation Samarra) in Iraqi air force.

If you are interested to knowing the details feel free..

Re:

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 02:24
by lamoey
mixelflick wrote:My thoughts exactly. The ability to engage/disengage from even the Eagle is concerning...

By one account, Mig-25's eluded an absurd # of F-15's/sparrow shots during Gulf War I. Not sure how AMRAAM would change that equation, but the raw kinematic performance of the Mig-31 coupled with its improved range could be a game changer. One wonders if the Israeli's were thinking the same, when Mig-31's were set to be delivered to Iran/Syria (can't remember which)...


The Mig-31 is an interceptor, not a dog fighter, so I t would most likely use the same hit and run tactics as the Mig-25.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 03:00
by mixelflick
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Now I know the -25 got waxed in Desert Storm by F-15's and suc.


The two MIG-25s that shot down in Desert Storm on January 19-1991 was MiG-25RB wasn't PD or PDS the interceptor version, They were on mission to drag the coalition aircraft to the SAM areas not to engage, however on January 30-1991 there is two Iraqi MIG-25PDs piloted by formation leader Capt Mahmoud Awad from 97th squadron of Al-Habbaniyah AB and Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai from 96th squadron Al-Qadisiyah AB, surprised and ambushed two U.S F-15 was in patrol to terminate the Iraqi aircraft trying to fly to Iran, the U.S F-15s were almost bingo fuel and the MIGs knows about that...
Briefly the Iraqi MIG-25PD piloted by Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai hit the U.S F-15 with R-40RD missile.
This was called (Operation Samarra) in Iraqi air force.
If you are interested to knowing the details feel free..


And what happened, it bounced off?

I keep hearing all these "F-15 was shot down" stories. The problem I have with that is that if true, there'd be some kind of absurb celebration in anti-western countries. OK maybe not absurd, but you know what I mean. The Eagle is touted as undefeated in air to air.

Where's the wreckage/video?

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 15:04
by sprstdlyscottsmn
to be fair, o.i.a.f. said hit, not shot down. There are records of damaged F-15s that were repaired. he is also forgetting the F-16 shooting down the MiG-25 though.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2013, 19:32
by Prinz_Eugn
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:to be fair, o.i.a.f. said hit, not shot down. There are records of damaged F-15s that were repaired. he is also forgetting the F-16 shooting down the MiG-25 though.


Can you imagine how discouraging that would have been?

"Hit! Hit! We finally got one!!"

...


...nevermind."

Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2013, 23:25
by lamoey
How the Mig-31 repelled the SR-71 Blackbird from Soviet skies

Myagkiy and its Weapons System Officer (WSO) were able to achieve a SR-71 lock on at 52,000 feet and at a distance of 120 Km from the target.

The Foxhound climbed at 65,676 feet where the crew had the Blackbird in sight and according to Myagkiy:


Had the spy plane violated Soviet airspace, a live missile launch would have been carried out. There was no practically chance the aircraft could avoid an R-33 missile.”

After this interception Blackbirds reportedly began to fly their reconnaissance missions from outside the borders of the Soviet Union.

But the MiG-31s intercepted the SR-71 at least another time.

On Sept. 3, 2012 an article written by Rakesh Krishman Simha for Indrus.in explains how the Foxhound was able to stop Blackbirds spy missions over Soviet Union on Jun. 3, 1986.

That day, no less than six MiG-31s intercepted an SR-71 over the Barents Sea by performing a coordinated interception that subjected the Blackbird to a possible all angle air-to-air missiles attack.


Full article: http://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 04:54
by huggy
This pilot claims he got a visual on the SR-71 at over 120km? In a head on merge? :whistle:

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 13:12
by bouliult
huggy wrote:This pilot claims he got a visual on the SR-71 at over 120km? In a head on merge? :whistle:


No, not a visual, but a lock with his radar!

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 15:17
by lamoey
huggy wrote:This pilot claims he got a visual on the SR-71 at over 120km? In a head on merge? :whistle:


My interpretation is that he got a lock at altitude 52Kft and 130Km range. After ascended to 65Kft he then saw it, presumably this time a lot closer, as they would have been on a carefully planned intercept course.

Back in 85' I saw the contrails of an SR-71 as it passed over the north eastern tip of Norway, i.e. on the border of Soviet Union. And how did I know it was an SR-71? I was visiting the Nato radar station at that location and one of the employees there saw it and told us what it was.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 16:58
by huggy
"... where the crew had the Blackbird in sight..."

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 01:01
by old.iraqi.air.force
mixelflick wrote:And what happened, it bounced off?

I keep hearing all these "F-15 was shot down" stories. The problem I have with that is that if true, there'd be some kind of absurb celebration in anti-western countries. OK maybe not absurd, but you know what I mean. The Eagle is touted as undefeated in air to air.
Where's the wreckage/video?

Well I believe you will need an interpreter to understand my poor English here :wink:
But I will do all my best to tell you in short, everything that happened.

The events start since the period to send the aircraft to Iran during the gulf war DS 1991,

Where the F-15s was intercept and shot down Iraqi aircraft trying to fly to Iran, while Iraqi aircraft were not armed so they cannot defend themselves in anyway plus most of these aircraft (Transport and ground attack such SU-20,SU-22,SU-24,SU-25 and MIG-23BN and Ilyushin Il-76 and F-1) Accordingly, the leadership of the Iraqi air force planned to shoot down U.S aircraft by quick sudden and ambushes, and here are chosen the MIG-25s for this task.

On January 28 they set a plan, on 29 pilots were scrambled to take off, but after two hours sitting in the cockpit mission aborted for several reasons...

January 30-1991 at 13:30 there was two U.S F-15s in patrol interceptor mission over east Iraqi, the MIG-25s was on the ground waiting to the order, in the same time Iraqi radars follow the movements of the U.S F-15 east,There was a time constant between the patrol replacement with another group, so the attack should be start at the end of the patrol where they almost bingo Fuel, Capt Mahmoud Awad from 97th squadron of Al-Habbaniyah AB and Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai from 96th squadron Al-Qadisiyah AB scrambled and take off, minutes later the ground control gave the order to attack immediately from two direction (One from Samarra city direction and the other on from Diyala city)in order to put the F-15s in a pincer and drain the largest amount of fuel as much as possible If they tried to outrun or fronting they will face the other MIG and vice versa, the formation leader Capt Mahmoud Awad reached the target area first, he was on 12tf while the ground control guide him toward to the F-15s and informed him about the speed, altitude, and distance..

Later the formation leader received order from the ground to open his N-005 radar but the U.S F-15 was just about 35Km to the ground control radar, in the same time it was far than this on formation leader screen!!

The ground control calculated the distance and gave the order to open fire, the formation leader lock on the apparent targets on his radar screen and fired R-40RD missile on it..
The missile towards at lightning speed on targets ..
Seconds later flash in the sky..
Checking..
No aircraft..!
No targets, nothing burning in the sky..!!
What happened? what's going on!?
The ground control called the formation leader turn back immediately!

Actually all that was happening is electronic war between the ground control and U.S F-15s, but the ground control was smartest (he forced the U.S aircraft to exhausted their ability to deceptive) now it became clear on the radar screen where is the U.S F-15s and the bogus objectives, what the U.S F-15s used called (Mechanical jamming) which reflect or re-reflect radar energy back to the radar to produce false target returns on the operator's scope. Mechanical jamming devices include chaff, corner reflectors, and decoys, That's why it was a difference on radar screen between the formation leader and the ground control (about distance of the targets).

Now Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai No2 was just in the right time in the right place, the ground control re-contact and asked him to return and go about the direction 090 degrees "there is two target about 70Km" and when he opened the radar he saw "PP" letters on the radar screen which is mean (an acronym a trying to positive jamming in Russian language)but his radar was scan and neutralized the jamming at the same time, while he is just about 45Km from the targets heading with 1.5 Mach, although he start Identify friend or foe IIF, but seconds later comes to his mind to check the formation leader position just in case he's not hook the friendly air craft..

Now the events below got within seconds only.
Capt. Mohammed called the ground control once again (targets 40Km) give me the formation leader place!
The ground control : targets 50 !
Capt. Mohammed : targets 30 give me formation leader place!!
The ground control : targets 40 !
Capt. Mohammed : targets 20!
Immediate release secure trigger preparing to launch missile..
lifted his eyes towards the horizon to verify the accuracy of the radar reading..
Surprise two U.S F-15s heading quickly and with both sides of the path of his plane from right to left throwing flares...
He called Visual Contact !!

Simultaneously to vibrate his right wing launching R-40RD missile towards No 2(the F-15), both aircraft turned away from the each other to avoid the incoming missile, seconds to explode near the F-15 No 2 remnants damage in the left engine, The U.S F-15 formation leader continue to move forward in a way and strange that he was not aware where is the MIG-25!
Capt. Mohammed immediately approached him distance about 350m to 400m but there was a difference in height between the two aircraft, the F-15 was higher than 50 meters with 900 km and Capt. Mohammed speed start to be more than 1.5 Mach since he began the attack, This height difference and the speed has hampered the warhead of the heat seeking missile R60, who was trying hard to lock the target within just a few seconds and here, it is likely that the damaged F-15 pilot had told the formation leader about the MIG-25 behind him..!

Because it's impossible to see the MIG of his successor in this corner, and if he's radar alert him from enemy aircraft behind him, for sure he will not continue to move forward in the way of the length this period..

In response to that, the F-15 leader pulled his aircraft in sharp left rotation with reverse to the right later, the MIG-25 passed just like lightning speed down the left wing and both pilots have saw each other for a part of second in that short moments, now become both of them in the same direction of rotation, there was no plenty of time barely both pilots pick their breath and without permission Capt.Mohammed drop the external fuel tank and quickly launch additional high speed and his eyes on the warning device and just with blink of eye all the warning lights the 44 lit up warning of lock and firing missile at him but he was fully prepared for this moment, in response to this warning he pull the aircraft strongly towards the opposite direction of the missile to break the lock and evade it and already succeeded in doing so, still did not pick his breath yet and the U.S F-15 launch another missile again, he repeat pulling his aircraft in maximum capacity to avoid the second one and successfully made it, moments and he saw the white lines in the sky left by the missiles that fired on him..
Now he got back to air base but there was four F-15E waiting for him, they fired bout three AGM-65D at him while he was landing, none of them hit him and this is just another story need time to tell it..

The F-15 and MIG-25 shouldn't be in dogfight they are interceptor air craft, but this dogfight was just crossed the sound barrier..
Whoever I hope your eyes not like this one just because of my grammar and whole language :shock:
But at least you got something new about that conflict.

The picture below shows the commander of the Iraqi air force and Capt. Mohammed AL-Samarrai behind them nearby his MIG-25
Image
Image

I hope I did not bother someone in this topic it's Just a story of the past nothing personal

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 02:50
by mixelflick
Did I read that right, Strike Eagles fired MAVERICK air to ground missles at the Mig-25?
Also Old Iraqi Air Force, what was the general impression held by Iraqi pilots regarding the F-15?

Your grammar is in a word, astounding. However, it's a lot better than my Arabic... :)

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 03:37
by old.iraqi.air.force
mixelflick wrote:Did I read that right, Strike Eagles fired MAVERICK air to ground missles at the Mig-25?
Also Old Iraqi Air Force, what was the general impression held by Iraqi pilots regarding the F-15?

Your grammar is in a word, astounding. However, it's a lot better than my Arabic... :)


Yes it was F-15E in mission of (search and destroy) Iraqi SCUD missile west of Iraq nearby highway "K160",fired a three MAVERICK air to ground missles at the Mig-25 while he was landing, due to low altitude of the MIG the ground reflections prevent to use air to air missile, the F-15E fired two on the Taxiway where is the MIG supposed to be go on "because the main runway devastating" and third went to him directly but he surpassed the explosion when he touched the runway with high speed.
About the second question I'm afraid to answer it so as not to understand me wrong, but in general the AWACS and the electronic warfare have had a very significant role, but however i would make a question and give the answer to you,
What if the coalition forces was without U.S participation?
The whole coalition forces without U.S they wouldn't be able to shot down any Iraqi air craft.
But U.S (by itself) with that advanced technology can not be defeated.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 06:25
by sprstdlyscottsmn
great story Old Iraqi. Despite the general lopsided results even the U.S. accounts make great mention of the harassment the MiG-25 was capable of. That must have been a prestigious aircraft worthy of your finest pilots. Forgive my poor (and first) attempt to put Arabic into a post. Thank you.
أشكركم على جانبك من القصة

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 13:00
by mixelflick
Thank you Old Iraqi you don't need to mince words though... :)

I do respect the Foxbat which is why I started this thread. And the Foxhound? I'm starting to think that's more to fear than any Flanker...

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 23:47
by Prinz_Eugn
Great story!

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2013, 04:33
by popcorn
What a wase,just been overhauled too..

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131214 ... Crash.html


MOSCOW, December 14 (RIA Novosti) –Two Russian Air Force crew members ejected to safety when their MiG-31 interceptor crashed on Saturday in the Far Eastern Primorye region, local authorities said. The aircraft went down 26 kilometers from the Tsentralnaya Uglovaya airbase near Vladivostok, after taking off at 5:07 a.m. Moscow time from the Knevichy airfield. No-one on the ground was hurt. The Defense Ministry later said the aircraft had suffered a failure of one of its two engines before the crash. The aircraft had just been overhauled, according to one source.
More..

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2013, 15:39
by stobiewan
I've got this mental image of some Russian techy holding a bag of nuts and fasteners in his hands saying "these must be spare, right?" as the thing taxis off..

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2013, 21:30
by mixelflick
Crash is a damn shame...

I'd love to hear from someone who's seen either a Mig-25 or -31 demo? Someone once said the noise was like 2 F-14's welded together?

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2013, 00:16
by popcorn
If only it had 2 engines... hmm. :devil:

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2013, 17:09
by sprstdlyscottsmn
a twin engine aircraft that looses an engine will always make it all the way to one of the following.
A)home base
B)friendly territory
C)scene of the crash

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 21 Dec 2013, 01:18
by southernphantom
mixelflick wrote:Crash is a damn shame...

I'd love to hear from someone who's seen either a Mig-25 or -31 demo? Someone once said the noise was like 2 F-14's welded together?


If I ever get to Russia, I think I'll try and time it for MAKS or something...

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 29 Dec 2013, 18:58
by That_Engine_Guy
popcorn wrote:If only it had 2 engines... hmm. :devil:


Twin engines double your chances of engine failure! :lmao: TEG

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 29 Dec 2013, 21:01
by neurotech
That_Engine_Guy wrote:
popcorn wrote:If only it had 2 engines... hmm. :devil:


Twin engines double your chances of engine failure! :lmao: TEG

And in all seriousness if a MiG-25/31 looses an engine at some parts of the envelope, the pilot will be joining the K36 fan club pretty soon. A sudden severe compressor stall (unstart) at M2.5+ would be one of those cases. The SR-71 has an engine intake controller to prevent an asymmetric unstart. I don't think the MiG-25 has asymmetric unstart protection. In 1981, test pilot Alexander Konovalov ejected from a MiG-25 after an engine failure http://www.flightgear.dk/mach26eject.htm

The F-14A was notorious for being difficult to fly single-engine carrier approaches. At least one pilot has gone for a blue water landing (ejecting near the ship) after being unable to trap on several single-engine approaches. The F-14D (F110 powered) NATOPS prohibits afterburner cat launches because if an engine fails on launch, the jet would be uncontrollable.

BTW How are you doing these days TEG?

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 06 Jan 2014, 03:39
by That_Engine_Guy
neurotech wrote:BTW How are you doing these days TEG?


Tactically - fair
Strategically - great

Back on target;

Asymmetrical thrust isn't an issue with singles either. Anyone who flys a twin should be well aware of yaw tendency with an engine out. This would be greatly exaggerated in something heavy and high powered moving slow or very VERY fast. (Tomcats were notorious for this with the TF33 and F110 due to the spacing of the engines from center-line.)

I'll toot the single engine horn again and say; even though the PW-229 is installed in both the F-15 and F-16; the F-15 is still (Historical statistics) more likely to succumb to an engine failure than the F-16. Be it the mechanics go that 'extra mile' or the fact the pilot isn't counting on the 'spare' engine; either it's ability or airframe performance in a degraded asymmetrical thrust situation.

Keep 'em flyin' :thumb:
TEG

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 00:55
by old.iraqi.air.force
Someone did ask me about a Syrian MiG-25 that was shot down by an IAF F-15 back in the 80's. I really don't remember who but I hope he/she will be able to see this post as I now have found the picture of that MiG.

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 20:45
by mixelflick
Great pic!

Now just IMAGINE how much that'd be worth, if it was an F-15! (not that I'd want to see it!)

Re: Mig-25/31

Unread postPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 08:49
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
mixelflick wrote:And what happened, it bounced off?

I keep hearing all these "F-15 was shot down" stories. The problem I have with that is that if true, there'd be some kind of absurb celebration in anti-western countries. OK maybe not absurd, but you know what I mean. The Eagle is touted as undefeated in air to air.
Where's the wreckage/video?

Well I believe you will need an interpreter to understand my poor English here :wink:
But I will do all my best to tell you in short, everything that happened.

The events start since the period to send the aircraft to Iran during the gulf war DS 1991,

Where the F-15s was intercept and shot down Iraqi aircraft trying to fly to Iran, while Iraqi aircraft were not armed so they cannot defend themselves in anyway plus most of these aircraft (Transport and ground attack such SU-20,SU-22,SU-24,SU-25 and MIG-23BN and Ilyushin Il-76 and F-1) Accordingly, the leadership of the Iraqi air force planned to shoot down U.S aircraft by quick sudden and ambushes, and here are chosen the MIG-25s for this task.

On January 28 they set a plan, on 29 pilots were scrambled to take off, but after two hours sitting in the cockpit mission aborted for several reasons...

January 30-1991 at 13:30 there was two U.S F-15s in patrol interceptor mission over east Iraqi, the MIG-25s was on the ground waiting to the order, in the same time Iraqi radars follow the movements of the U.S F-15 east,There was a time constant between the patrol replacement with another group, so the attack should be start at the end of the patrol where they almost bingo Fuel, Capt Mahmoud Awad from 97th squadron of Al-Habbaniyah AB and Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai from 96th squadron Al-Qadisiyah AB scrambled and take off, minutes later the ground control gave the order to attack immediately from two direction (One from Samarra city direction and the other on from Diyala city)in order to put the F-15s in a pincer and drain the largest amount of fuel as much as possible If they tried to outrun or fronting they will face the other MIG and vice versa, the formation leader Capt Mahmoud Awad reached the target area first, he was on 12tf while the ground control guide him toward to the F-15s and informed him about the speed, altitude, and distance..

Later the formation leader received order from the ground to open his N-005 radar but the U.S F-15 was just about 35Km to the ground control radar, in the same time it was far than this on formation leader screen!!

The ground control calculated the distance and gave the order to open fire, the formation leader lock on the apparent targets on his radar screen and fired R-40RD missile on it..
The missile towards at lightning speed on targets ..
Seconds later flash in the sky..
Checking..
No aircraft..!
No targets, nothing burning in the sky..!!
What happened? what's going on!?
The ground control called the formation leader turn back immediately!

Actually all that was happening is electronic war between the ground control and U.S F-15s, but the ground control was smartest (he forced the U.S aircraft to exhausted their ability to deceptive) now it became clear on the radar screen where is the U.S F-15s and the bogus objectives, what the U.S F-15s used called (Mechanical jamming) which reflect or re-reflect radar energy back to the radar to produce false target returns on the operator's scope. Mechanical jamming devices include chaff, corner reflectors, and decoys, That's why it was a difference on radar screen between the formation leader and the ground control (about distance of the targets).

Now Capt Mohammed Al-Samarrai No2 was just in the right time in the right place, the ground control re-contact and asked him to return and go about the direction 090 degrees "there is two target about 70Km" and when he opened the radar he saw "PP" letters on the radar screen which is mean (an acronym a trying to positive jamming in Russian language)but his radar was scan and neutralized the jamming at the same time, while he is just about 45Km from the targets heading with 1.5 Mach, although he start Identify friend or foe IIF, but seconds later comes to his mind to check the formation leader position just in case he's not hook the friendly air craft..

Now the events below got within seconds only.
Capt. Mohammed called the ground control once again (targets 40Km) give me the formation leader place!
The ground control : targets 50 !
Capt. Mohammed : targets 30 give me formation leader place!!
The ground control : targets 40 !
Capt. Mohammed : targets 20!
Immediate release secure trigger preparing to launch missile..
lifted his eyes towards the horizon to verify the accuracy of the radar reading..
Surprise two U.S F-15s heading quickly and with both sides of the path of his plane from right to left throwing flares...
He called Visual Contact !!

Simultaneously to vibrate his right wing launching R-40RD missile towards No 2(the F-15), both aircraft turned away from the each other to avoid the incoming missile, seconds to explode near the F-15 No 2 remnants damage in the left engine, The U.S F-15 formation leader continue to move forward in a way and strange that he was not aware where is the MIG-25!
Capt. Mohammed immediately approached him distance about 350m to 400m but there was a difference in height between the two aircraft, the F-15 was higher than 50 meters with 900 km and Capt. Mohammed speed start to be more than 1.5 Mach since he began the attack, This height difference and the speed has hampered the warhead of the heat seeking missile R60, who was trying hard to lock the target within just a few seconds and here, it is likely that the damaged F-15 pilot had told the formation leader about the MIG-25 behind him..!

Because it's impossible to see the MIG of his successor in this corner, and if he's radar alert him from enemy aircraft behind him, for sure he will not continue to move forward in the way of the length this period..

In response to that, the F-15 leader pulled his aircraft in sharp left rotation with reverse to the right later, the MIG-25 passed just like lightning speed down the left wing and both pilots have saw each other for a part of second in that short moments, now become both of them in the same direction of rotation, there was no plenty of time barely both pilots pick their breath and without permission Capt.Mohammed drop the external fuel tank and quickly launch additional high speed and his eyes on the warning device and just with blink of eye all the warning lights the 44 lit up warning of lock and firing missile at him but he was fully prepared for this moment, in response to this warning he pull the aircraft strongly towards the opposite direction of the missile to break the lock and evade it and already succeeded in doing so, still did not pick his breath yet and the U.S F-15 launch another missile again, he repeat pulling his aircraft in maximum capacity to avoid the second one and successfully made it, moments and he saw the white lines in the sky left by the missiles that fired on him..
Now he got back to air base but there was four F-15E waiting for him, they fired bout three AGM-65D at him while he was landing, none of them hit him and this is just another story need time to tell it..

The F-15 and MIG-25 shouldn't be in dogfight they are interceptor air craft, but this dogfight was just crossed the sound barrier..
Whoever I hope your eyes not like this one just because of my grammar and whole language :shock:
But at least you got something new about that conflict.

The picture below shows the commander of the Iraqi air force and Capt. Mohammed AL-Samarrai behind them nearby his MIG-25
Image
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I hope I did not bother someone in this topic it's Just a story of the past nothing personal


Old Iraqi there are two gaps in your story :
1- The F-15E are not equipped to carry AGM-65 Maverick
2- If the F-15Cs were almost bingo on Fuel before this engagement then they would have crashed in Iraq due to fuel starvation even if there was no engagement because they were deep inside Iraqi air space and the tankers were not allowed to cross to Iraq out of fear of SAMs ... Not before feb 1st

Re: The MiG-25 and MiG-31 in combat

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 15:42
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:Old Iraqi there are two gaps in your story :
1- The F-15E are not equipped to carry AGM-65 Maverick
2- If the F-15Cs were almost bingo on Fuel before this engagement then they would have crashed in Iraq due to fuel starvation even if there was no engagement because they were deep inside Iraqi air space and the tankers were not allowed to cross to Iraq out of fear of SAMs ... Not before feb 1st


1.The U.S F-15E's capable to carry the AGM-65 Maverick, they are particularly used in the fight against Iraqi SCUD missiles during DS 1991 "especially in western desert of Anbar". The other think why we believe the U.S F-15E's fired Maverick missiles not Sparrows (First) because Capt.Mohamed was on landing, less than 50 meter so the ground reflection will prevent the F-15's pilot of using radar or heat seeking missile, as well these F-15E's were at mission "find and destroy" Iraqi SCUD's in western desert therefore the likely ammunition was AGM-65 Maverick, Since all warning system and radar shutdown automatically in MIG-25 while landing gear dropped in this case the pilot unable to identify the threat what was exactly. I've seen and reads some report it says that the U.S F-15's fired four Sparrows trying to drop the Foxbats. But i can't confirm it was Sparrows for the reason i mentioned already.
You may have a look to this part on this site
Code: Select all
There's more. When F-15 pilots were fighting for the chance to fly sweeps east of Baghdad late in the war, itching for a chance to get a shot at an Iraqi running for Iran, they weren't expecting the fight that a pair of Foxbats put up. Two Foxbats approached a pair of F-15s, fired missiles before the Eagles could get off shots (the missiles were evaded by the Eagles), then outran those two Eagles, four Sparrows and two Sidewinders fired back at them. Two more Eagles maneuvered to cut the Foxbat's off from their base (four more Eagles tried, but were unable to effect an intercept), and four more Sparrows were expended in vain trying to drop the Foxbats."
[url]http://everything2.com/title/MiG-25+Foxbat[/url]

2.As i recall there was pair of tanker escort by F-14's moving along the border with Saudi Arabia, usually came from the red sea and air refueling the strike aircraft (before or after) entering Iraqi airspace, the F-15's was one of those beneficiaries of these tankers, So the penetration of Iraqi airspace by these tankers was even before battle of Al khafji (North Iraq, Southwest "over Nsarih and Samawa and West border) and this combat happened day after the battle. There was a fixed time and repeatedly used by U.S F-15's between the patrol to switch with the other one so the disbursements fuel to the U.S F-15's was calculated approximate but good. However no one was able to estimate %100 that pair of U.S F-15's was bingo fuel but at lest they was %40 and this was enough to guide them to critical combat situation especially with fast aircraft such pair of MIG-25.
After the invasion 2003 Capt.Mahmoud summoned by a committee of Pentagon and he was interrogated about this incident.

F-15 using Maverick missile
Image

Re: The MiG-25 and MiG-31 in combat

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 17:19
by oldiaf
Yes I read about this engagements in which the F-15Cs fired ten missiles against two Iraqi MiG-25s but I didn't know its the same engagements the Iraqi AF called operation Sammara

Re: The MiG-25 and MiG-31 in combat

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 01:15
by old.iraqi.air.force
After the invasion 2003 Capt.Mahmoud summoned by a committee of Pentagon and he was interrogated about this incident

Recently i spoke with Capt. Mahmoud, he tolled me it was invitation by Major in U.S army not summoned, with a friendly discussion lead them to talk about Operation Sammara.

oldiaf wrote:Yes I read about this engagements in which the F-15Cs fired ten missiles against two Iraqi MiG-25s but I didn't know its the same engagements the Iraqi AF called operation Sammara

Yes the report refer to the same engagements.

Re: The MiG-25 and MiG-31 in combat

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 08:43
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
After the invasion 2003 Capt.Mahmoud summoned by a committee of Pentagon and he was interrogated about this incident

Recently i spoke with Capt. Mahmoud, he tolled me it was invitation by Major in U.S army not summoned, with a friendly discussion lead them to talk about Operation Sammara.

oldiaf wrote:Yes I read about this engagements in which the F-15Cs fired ten missiles against two Iraqi MiG-25s but I didn't know its the same engagements the Iraqi AF called operation Sammara

Yes the report refer to the same engagements.

But the report denies that an F-15C damaged or shutdowned in that engagement