Re: FGA-50 tech determines GaN for updated version of N036

New and old developments in aviation technology.
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terrygedran

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 19:46

eloise wrote:
terrygedran wrote:Key world " Automatic change of priority target"

and how exactly would you know APG-81 doesn't change priority target?


terrygedran wrote: They are not testing "Automatic targets tracking in predetermined zone." as "APG-81 test" you claim.
And "APG-81 test" do not "tracking in predetermined zone" to.
"APG-81 test" is just tracking all targets in range.

80 nm is not the maximum range of APG-81, so yes it does track targets in predetermined zone


Because it just scale not predetermined zone.
According to your logic, the maximum detection range is predetermined zone to.


And F-35 dont sort them in any way in this "APG-81test".

Range of targets in "APG-81test" is 100nm , and clear that 100nm target more 3time hard to track then 80nm.
It's not like 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage .
So it is quite obvious that the maximum detection range F-35 with its APG-81 does not greatly exceed 100nm.
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terrygedran

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 20:29

Lockheed Martin F 35 Lightning II stealth fighter cockpit demonstrator
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arian

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 23:55

Are you people seriously having a conversation as to whether the F-35 can automatically prioritize targets?

Stupid discussion in a stupid troll thread.
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eloise

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 08:47

terrygedran wrote:Because it just scale not predetermined zone.
According to your logic, the maximum detection range is predetermined zone to.

Nope, because 80 nm is not the maximum detection range of APG-81, so the pre determined zone is 80 nm

terrygedran wrote:And F-35 dont sort them in any way in this "APG-81test"

:doh: tracking targets, giving their velocity and aspect angle equal "don't sort targets"?


terrygedran wrote: Range of targets in "APG-81test" is 100nm , and clear that 100nm target more 3time hard to track then 80nm.
It's not like 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage .
So it is quite obvious that the maximum detection range F-35 with its APG-81 does not greatly exceed 100nm

Sorry mate but you are so full of sh*t with that statement
Range of APG-67 for target with RCS = 5m2 in range while search is 58 nm (107.4 km)

Image

APG-67 on F-20 is believed to have similar range to first version of APG-68 on F-16 (both delivered around 1980), the detection range of early APG-68 is 105 km for target with RCS =5 m2. (APG-68 has 9 versions from APG-68v1 to APG-68v9)

The first APG-68v9 delivered in 2002 was advertised to have 33% longer range than the version preceding it, the APG-68v1. This brought us to detection range of 140 km against target with RCS = 5 m2.
Image

Keep in mind that we still talking about mechanical radar. There isn't much information about APG-80 on F-16E due to the rarity of the aircraft, but the APG-79 on F-18 is advertised to have double the range of APG-73. APG-73 has bigger aperture size than APG-68v9, using similar technologies (mechanical slotted array), it will have at least similar range, more likely longer. So the detection range for APG-79 at the minimum is 280 km against target with RCS = 5m2
Image

Then we have the APG-81 with similar technology levels to APG-79 but with approximately 18% bigger aperture. This will increase range again one more time to 300-320 km against target with RCS= 5m2 at the very minimum.
Image

Keep in mind that the tiny APG-83 can perform SAR mapping from 160 nm (296 km)
Image
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eloise

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 13:45

terrygedran wrote:
"maximum detection range F-35 with its APG-81 does not greatly exceed 100nm." For target with RCS= 1m2

That weren't what you wrote, there were no words about RCS in your previous comment
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terrygedran

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 14:37

"80 nm is not the maximum range of APG-81, so yes it does track targets in predetermined zone"



From 5:55 to 6:00

"tracking targets, giving their velocity and aspect angle equal "don't sort targets"?"

If you still do not understand( since English is clearly not your mother tongue) I'm ready to translate text straight In your native language.
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garrya

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 15:18

terrygedran wrote:when discussing APG-81 range always say about
150 km(100nm)RCS 1m2

I don't want to throw out any accusation yet but both you and wekzang have rather horrible mathematical skill.
Nm is short for nautical miles, 1 nm is equal 1.852 km.Thus, 100 nm is therefore equal to 185.2 km. How can you get 150 km?.
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doge

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 15:43

Proposal or idea on APG-81 maximum range.
2010 Falcon 9 rocket
or
2012 NASA's ATREX five rockets,
Does anyone who knows these rocket's RCS? (I do not know...)

If can know this, I think that it is possible to know the tentative maximum range. How is it...
APG-81andDAS.jpg
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terrygedran

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 15:49

garrya wrote:
terrygedran wrote:when discussing APG-81 range always say about
150 km(100nm)RCS 1m2

I don't want to throw out any accusation yet but both you and wekzang have rather horrible mathematical skill.
Nm is short for nautical miles, 1 nm is equal 1.852 km.Thus, 100 nm is therefore equal to 185.2 km. How can you get 150 km?.


And 80nm is 148,16km RCS= 1m2 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage.

This was not a calculation but an optimistic assumption and 150km was conservative assumption.
Last edited by terrygedran on 13 Aug 2017, 15:57, edited 1 time in total.
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eloise

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 15:54

terrygedran wrote:Unfortunately for you there is a difference.
But it is obvious that understanding this is not available to you.You continue to assert with manic stubbornness misconception and trying to adjust to it any of my statement.

alright "expert" how about you explain exactly what the Irbis-E did in its test that APG-81 didn't, how does that affect their relative detection range? what is the evidence that APG-81 didn't sort targets by priority?

terrygedran wrote:that none of my statements is not contrary to reality

Sureeeeee
" the maximum detection range F-35 with its APG-81 does not greatly exceed 100nm" While in reality it can detect target with RCS =5m2 from 300-320 km

"F-35 dont sort them in any way in this "APG-81test" while in reality it not only detect but also sort out their aspect and velocity

terrygedran wrote:Am not wewuzkangz

Yet you have absolutely zero problem with his babbling nonsense


terrygedran wrote:2)You're wrong with "Irbis-E screen - flight tests"
3) You're wrong with " APG-81 test" and with " APG-81 test"="Irbis-E tests "

Feel free to prove it with evidence


terrygedran wrote:You obviously do not understand what scale is(and predetermined)

APG-81 maximum range excess 320 km while in the test the maximum scale in the display is only 80nm, that mean the maximum detection range was not tested, but only the ability to track targets and sorting out their aspects, velocity in a predetermined range (80nm)


terrygedran wrote:Yes there was not this indication but I naively assume that when discussing APG-81 range always say about
150 km(100nm)RCS 1m2 .
But I explained what I'm talking about when post about the maximum range APG-81, what is your problem with that ?

1) "maximum detection range" is not in any shape or form similar to "detection range against target with RCS =5m2", it is even further from tracking range that was shown in the test.

2) 100nm is 185km

3) If a radar has 300km detection range against target with RCS =5m2, it will have 200km detection range against target with RCS= 1m2
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garrya

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 16:15

terrygedran wrote:And 80nm is 148,16km

But you put 100nm rather than 80nm in the bracket. There are targets tracked outside the 80nm scale as well. One factor that everyone seem to overlook is the number of beam formed in the testing video
Image
terrygedran wrote:RCS= 1m2 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage.
This was not a calculation but an optimistic assumption and 150km was conservative assumption.

Where does the RCS=1m2 and 86%pD came from? It wasn't mentioned anywhere in the video. IMHO APG-81 should easily have >200 km detection range against target with RCS of 1m2 given that APG-77v1 (version with APG-81 T/R modules) is able to reach 400 km detection range for target with RCS of 1m2.
Last edited by garrya on 13 Aug 2017, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.
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terrygedran

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 16:30

garrya wrote:But you put 100nm rather than 80nm in the bracket.


Sorry for that. But now it is clear what was meant?

garrya wrote:It wasn't mentioned anywhere in the video.


Yes it was not from that video.
APG-77 LPI detection range against target with RCS of 1m2 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage 190km
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garrya

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 16:38

terrygedran wrote: APG-77 LPI detection range against target with RCS of 1m2 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage 190km

Do you have a link?
Nevertheless, I think you should note that the detection range with one pulse (very low probably of intercept) and maximum detection range (with high PRF) are not the same. The former is more stealthy while the later is more powerful
Last edited by garrya on 13 Aug 2017, 17:15, edited 2 times in total.
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eloise

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 16:45

terrygedran wrote:"a predetermined range (80nm)"
I hope this is a language barrier.
Tell me who and what determined this distance?

The need to form multiple beams simultaneously as stated by Garry, more beams mean power are more divided, the aperture area is also divided, meaning lower gain. Both of that will reduce maximum range. Another thing that can affect radar range is pulse repeation frequency.
garrya wrote:There are targets tracked outside the 80nm scale as well. One factor that everyone seem to overlook is the number of beam formed in the testing video
Image



terrygedran wrote:It is a pity that APG-81 does not have such detection range against target with RCS= 1m2 86% probability of detection from 1 beam passage.

"One beam passage" ? as in a single pulse? All radar send dozens of pulse for tracking and detection, performance of single pulse detection range is irrelevant. Irbis-E will not achieve the maximum detection range with a single pulse either
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garrya

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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 16:58

doge wrote:Proposal or idea on APG-81 maximum range.
2010 Falcon 9 rocket
or
2012 NASA's ATREX five rockets,
Does anyone who knows these rocket's RCS? (I do not know...)

If can know this, I think that it is possible to know the tentative maximum range. How is it...
APG-81andDAS.jpg

IMHO, it is impractical. To begin with, missiles and aircraft RCS varies significantly with aspect. Furthermore, the direction of travel of these missiles are near perpendicular to the aircraft, so their Doppler shift are very small, thus reduce detection range, you can imagine beam maneuver.
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