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Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 03:15
by madrat
Sparrow missiles required new fuse timing. F-15A could track the Foxbat fine.

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 03:27
by fbw
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Israeli pilots bagged Foxbats with face shots.


I was looking at USAF F-15/MiG-25 kills. I’m not that familiar with Israeli claims outside of the first MiG-25 kill that was credited to an F-15/Aim-7. I’m lacking in documentation in regards to the Israeli F-15 kills by weapon/type or scenario.

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 04:23
by fbw
Looking through the admittedly spotty documentation, I can find two/three IDF F-15 kills on MiG-25, the very first one on 12/31/1980 which was accredited to an AIM-7, one on 03/02/81 and one in 8/31/1982 which is a shaired claim with ground fire. This jive with your information?

3 kills with conflicting dates? Tom Cooper?

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 04:55
by sprstdlyscottsmn
"On 13 February 1981, the Israeli Air Force sent two RF-4Es over Lebanon as decoys for Syrian MiG-25 interceptors. As the MiGs scrambled, the RF-4Es turned back delivering chaff and using ECM pods. Two IDF/AF F-15As were waiting for the MiGs and shot one of them down with AIM-7F missiles. The other MiG was able to escape. In a similar engagement, on 29 July 1981, a Syrian MiG-25 was again downed by an Israeli F-15A, after which a second MiG-25 launched its R-40 missiles at the F-15 and its wingman, but they missed."

From Wiki with a book reference.

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 13:39
by mixelflick
hythelday wrote..

"Much like the Shah, you are all over Tomcat purely because of the looks, not because of performance."

I agree with most of what you wrote, but disagree with you strongly here. I made many a performance based argument for F-14D and Super Tomcat vs. Super Hornet in another thread. Does it look badass? Sure does. But I cited many an example of its superior range, speed, kinematics, radar, weapons etc.

With respect to the F-14 vs. 15, I'd agree the Eagle is superior in most respects. But the F-14 was incredibly effective in its role, and nowhere have I read of Iranian pilots (or anyone else) lamenting the fact that they should have bought the F-15..

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 15:38
by mixelflick
Wow. Lotta conflicting info on Israeli Foxbat kills with the F-15.

Is there a definitive resource? Tom Cooper??

This is an important piece of information IMO. I always wondered how effective the F-15 vs. Mig-25 really was. If GWI was any indication, bagging a Mig-25 wasn't easy. Those Iraqi pilots were good, albeit they made some mistakes too. I have no doubt the F-14 and F-15 ruined many a Foxbat's party.

Just would like to know which was more capable in downing one..

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 15:39
by sferrin
mixelflick wrote:hythelday wrote..

"Much like the Shah, you are all over Tomcat purely because of the looks, not because of performance."

I agree with most of what you wrote, but disagree with you strongly here. I made many a performance based argument for F-14D and Super Tomcat vs. Super Hornet in another thread. Does it look badass? Sure does. But I cited many an example of its superior range, speed, kinematics, radar, weapons etc.

With respect to the F-14 vs. 15, I'd agree the Eagle is superior in most respects. But the F-14 was incredibly effective in its role, and nowhere have I read of Iranian pilots (or anyone else) lamenting the fact that they should have bought the F-15..


A shame they were never able to get the F401 working. :doh:

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 19:04
by basher54321
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:"On 13 February 1981, the Israeli Air Force sent two RF-4Es over Lebanon as decoys for Syrian MiG-25 interceptors.....




In Israeli F-15 Units in combat (S Aloni) there are pilot accounts of the above and the claims were:

13 Feb 1981 Benny Zinker (MiG-25P)
29 July 1981 Shaul Simon (MiG-25P)
31 August 1982 Shaul Schwartz ( MiG-25R was hit by a HAWK first and descended to lower alt)

All AIM-7Fs

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 19:30
by sprstdlyscottsmn
basher54321 wrote:In Israeli F-15 Units in combat (S Aloni)

That was the last name in the incomplete wiki citation. Thanks.

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 13:04
by mixelflick
sferrin wrote:
mixelflick wrote:hythelday wrote..

"Much like the Shah, you are all over Tomcat purely because of the looks, not because of performance."

I agree with most of what you wrote, but disagree with you strongly here. I made many a performance based argument for F-14D and Super Tomcat vs. Super Hornet in another thread. Does it look badass? Sure does. But I cited many an example of its superior range, speed, kinematics, radar, weapons etc.

With respect to the F-14 vs. 15, I'd agree the Eagle is superior in most respects. But the F-14 was incredibly effective in its role, and nowhere have I read of Iranian pilots (or anyone else) lamenting the fact that they should have bought the F-15..


A shame they were never able to get the F401 working. :doh:


Indeed!

Tomcat is absolutely menacing... :)

Re: Su-27 and F-15 in air policing close encounter

Unread postPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 13:35
by sferrin
Just looking at the book "Uncovering The Grumman F-14 A/B/D Tomcat". When people talk about the Tomcat's complexity they ain't kiddin'. :shock: Forget the APG-71/Phoenix and vision system below the nose for a moment. Just the mechanical complexity of the thing, compared to an Eagle or Super Hornet, is mind-boggling.